Is Zephyr Still OEM for Snap on Bits?

[msevarino]

So the only place I could find the full catalogue of Zephyr bits for sale is OmegaTec and they have a min order of 10 pieces per bit. So, being obsessive, I took the plunge and ordered 65 bits at the min 10 order, planning to sell the additional 9 sets that I didn't keep.

Anyways, I listed them on eBay, and a potential buyer said that Zephyr no longer makes Snap-on's bits. I also saw a thread on this forum from back in 2012: (had to remove link because of my post count, but if you search for "Snap-on bits no longer made by zephyr, you can find the post)

They mention that some bits from Snap on they received had Wera markings on them. This would make sense since some bits, like the stubby bits and diamond coated bits, have COO as CZ on the snap on site, which is where Wera makes their bits.

However, after taking delivery of the Zephyr bits (after nearly 7-8 months of waiting from Zephyr factory), and comparing them to Snap on bits, they appear to be identical. The Zephyr alloy and their forging process make a pretty unique bit. Anyone know if Snap on got their own tooling and does this in house now? I don't see why they would do that and still source from CZ/Wera for some bits, and also source from Ullman and other non affiliated manufacturers.

If anyone has any info on the current state of Snap ons bit outsourcin that would be awesome. Thanks.

 

[msevarino]

Interesting. Well I ordered a set of Apex bit as well from Omega tec, since they have single bit ordering. Should be here in a month or so. Will post pictures of Apex, Zephyr and current snap on side by side for comparison. I think a couple snap on bits come with the ratcheting stubby thats on the way.


When Zephyr was making Snap On's bits, did they come with Zephyr part numbers and/or the engraved Z or did they have Snap On part numbers and the Snap on S? Just curious if there was a point where that changed since you said the recent snap on bits have full snap on part numbers on them, and if this is the reason you think the manufacturer changed?

Given how long I had to wait for this order, which I ordered last November, so no Covid delays, I could see why Snap On went elsewhere....

 

[measuredtwice]

There was a set of 28 Zephyr bits for $11 shipped a while back --> https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=424525

Omegatec does sell a 31 piece set for $48 --> https://omegatec.com/zbb-4-zephyr-professional-31-piece-bit-kit.aspx

That set would have gotten you most of the bits except the security torx and robertson and a few sizes of others.

I think it will difficult to find a buyer wanting to pay $149 for your 63 piece set rather than $48 for the 31 piece set with box at Omegatec. But it is possible.

 

[msevarino]

Yea I ordered 10 of the 31 piece sets and then filled in the rest. They have a $50.00 min, so you would have to order some other stuff in addition to the Zbb-4 if thats all you wanted. I calculated the price using this set + the price of the individual additional bits. Comes to ~115 cost. With eBay fee, pay pal fee and shipping, probably will only end up getting my set for free when all is said and done, if that.

How do you know I am selling it for $149? Just curious because I explicitly did not post the eBay link because the point of this thread isn't to sell these sets.

I am selling 4 sets with the cases (2 cases), and 5 without.

If I could have avoided spending ~1500 and having to sell off the excess, I would have gladly spent what I am selling these for. Also, if you know of another way to make this set happen, some outlet I missed, please let me know. It was a huge pain making the Zephyr bit set happen.

 

[Wamsutta]

Aren't the Snap-on bits that are made by Zephyr come stamped with a "Z" inside of a circle?

 

[msevarino]

I don't know, but I would love for someone to verify this. I thought so too, but the snap on S and the Zephyr Z are pretty similar on quick glance on the bits. Snap on has an S that is boxed in instead of a Z in a circle.

ToolMan seems to indicate that there were bits with Zephyr part numbers and possibly the Zephyr Z on older bits.

I have a tire valve bit by Snap-On, currently the only Snap on bit I have to compare, but it has a snap on date code and snap on part number. I don't see why older bits wouldn't have had the date code on it, which would mean at least some custom tooling at Zephyr for snap on.

The bit certainly looks like it is tooled by zephyr, the alloy is identical, and the zephyr alloy is very unique. Also, I have the magnetic and non magnetic bit holders from snap on and I ordered magnetic and nonmagnetic sets of the zephyr bit holders, and the equivalent sizes look identical.

When I get my Snap-On stubby ratcheting driver in the mail I'll post the snap on, zephyr and apex side by side. I don't have older snap ons that would unquestionably be made by zephyr. If someone does a picture would be cool.

 

[measuredtwice]

How do you know I am selling it for $149? Just curious because I explicitly did not post the eBay link because the point of this thread isn't to sell these sets.

You didn't post a link but you said they were on Ebay so I did an Ebay search and found the auction. I previously posted the $11 Zephyr set deal and was interested in buying more.

Yea I ordered 10 of the 31 piece sets and then filled in the rest. They have a $50.00 min, so you would have to order some other stuff in addition to the Zbb-4 if thats all you wanted. I calculated the price using this set + the price of the individual additional bits. Comes to ~115 cost. With eBay fee, pay pal fee and shipping, probably will only end up getting my set for free when all is said and done, if that.

....

I am selling 4 sets with the cases (2 cases), and 5 without.

If I could have avoided spending ~1500 and having to sell off the excess, I would have gladly spent what I am selling these for. Also, if you know of another way to make this set happen, some outlet I missed, please let me know. It was a huge pain making the Zephyr bit set happen.

That's a big investment and a lot of work. I wish you luck. Might have been safer to try to set up a group buy so that the cost would be shared and interest could be gauged.

 

[msevarino]

Snap on valve core bit on the left. Zephyr #2 ACR on the right.

 

[measuredtwice]

Snap-On (left) and Zephyr (right) Phillips 2

The Zephyr bit doesn't have the Z circle mark but it was bought direct from Zephyr on Ebay.

 

[msevarino]

Yea, I thought about trying to do something like that. I figure worst case, now I have 9 really nice gifts to give people over coming years. But I think these will sell eventually. We'll see. PM me if you want a set, if i'm not paying eBay fees I can come down on the price ~10% or so.

I am waiting on an order of 3 of each of the torx plus bits they have (T10, 15, 25, 30, 40 I think) and 5 of each of the SAE hex tamper proof bits as well if you wanted to wait for some of those. 3 and 5 are the min orders on those.


Yes, I've seen that Zephyr sells directly some single bits, and lots of sets of 5 of some bits on eBay.

 

[msevarino]

Non magnetic bitholders zephyr on left, snap on right. These are clearly pretty different.

 

[msevarino]

Magnetic bit holders zephyr right, snap on left. Again pretty different.

 

[measuredtwice]

Aren't the Snap-on bits that are made by Zephyr come stamped with a "Z" inside of a circle?

Took a quick look at some of my Snap-On bits and all the ones that I checked have the Z in a circle mark used by Zephyr. I haven't bought any recently though.

Some of my Zephyr bits (like the Phillips 2) don't have any branding but I know they are Zephyr because I bought them direct from Zephyr and they came in a Zephyr bag. So it seems that Zephyr doesn't always mark their bits with the Z in a circle and the lack of the branding doesn't mean that it's not made by Zephyr.

 

[msevarino]

This is the full zephyr range of bit holders magnetic on left, non magnetic on right. The ZM and ZNM type 2 holders in their catalog. Omega has single piece ordering for these. They are reasonably priced compared to snap on stuff.

Given the variations from the zephyr catalog dimensions/descriptions and the bizarre differences in machining across this line, I again can see why snap on might have had enough with zephyr.

I think its cool they are located in a nondescript building in LA, but I am sure snap on got annoyed playing second fiddle to the US govt. I think Zephyr gets hit with a lot of DPA orders, which delays non gov't work unpredictably.

The machining stuff though, don't know what that's about.

 

[msevarino]

Took a quick look at some of my Snap-On bits and all the ones that I checked have the Z in a circle mark used by Zephyr. I haven't bought any recently though.

Some of my Zephyr bits (like the Phillips 2) don't have any branding but I know they are Zephyr because I bought them direct from Zephyr and they came in a Zephyr bag. So it seems that Zephyr doesn't always mark their bits with the Z in a circle and the lack of the branding doesn't mean that it's not made by Zephyr.

Ok so the older snap on bits you have do in fact have the Zephyr Z and not the Snap on S like on that valve core bit I sent? I had asked someone else who replied earlier if they had bits with zephyr part numbers and the Z and if they knew when snap on started putting their own part # and the snap on S. The snap ons dont all have date codes?

 

[measuredtwice]

Ok so the older snap on bits you have do in fact have the Zephyr Z and not the Snap on S like on that valve core bit I sent? I had asked someone else who replied earlier if they had bits with zephyr part numbers and the Z and if they knew when snap on started putting their own part # and the snap on S. The snap ons dont all have date codes?

Mine don't have the new branding and I don't know when they started using it. Maybe around 2012 since there's a 2012 forum topic.

Anyways, I listed them on eBay, and a potential buyer said that Zephyr no longer makes Snap-on's bits.

Did the guy say how he knows? There's a lot of misinformation on the web.

I don't know if this is true or not. Even when the Snap-On bits had the Zephyr branding, drivers denied that they weren't made by Snap-On.

I also saw a thread on this forum from back in 2012: (had to remove link because of my post count, but if you search for "Snap-on bits no longer made by zephyr, you can find the post)

People made wild guesses in that old forum topic. You don't have to change manufacturers to change branding. Maybe they just had Zephyr put Snap-On branding on the USA made bits. Or maybe they changed manufacturers. Haven't seen any proof.

 

[msevarino]

Oh that's great thanks a lot.

I think it is interesting that there is both the Zephyr Z and the snap on part number and date code on some bits.

My conclusion about this generally is that there is no evidence that snap ons bit production situation ever changed, whatever that situation is. There has never been any concrete evidence, except for some bits having zephyr engravings, that Zephyr did or didn't produce their bits. Anything without a zephyr Z has always been speculative. And, like measured twice said, some guy saying it on eBay doesn't make it so, and his assertion was to try and get me to lower the price. He also claimed he could get this set directly from zephyr, which is simply not true.

I would imagine that in order to hedge outsourcing risk, they source from several places and do the laser etching at snap on. I doubt they have invested in bit tooling and also continue to outsource to places like Wera. In house laser etching would also explain the inconsistencies with the engravings, some having zephyr logos, etc.

Someone claimed in a thread that I can't find now that VIM made snap ons bits. I don't think Apex makes their bits, as Apex Tool Group, Apex's parent, is a direct competitor of Snap-On. Also, Apex bits are already snap on expensive ordering from Omega which is an Apex distributor. By comparison their Zephyr stuff, when broken down per piece, is about 1/3-1/2 the price of equivalent Snap on.

In any case, the bits look strikingly similar.

Maybe I will take the initiative and call snap on and just ask. Worst they can do is refuse to answer the question. Will report back.

 

[msevarino]

Disclaimer:
1] I only have $40 in both kits so I don't want any commentary on cost
2] every item in the cases is absolutely Snap-on, even the longer drive bits.

This thread was started by a guy who currently without offloading any of the excess, has spent ~$1500 to acquire a 65 piece bit set, so no worries re concern 1.

 

[msevarino]

I don't really see that as an oddity. All Snap-on tools have their date stamp and part numbers. I remember seeing Channel Lock pliers in Home Depot with a Snap-on date stamp, and realizing that it was essentially some BluePoint product. Turned out it was. The company making it for BluePoint didn't bother retooling all their equipment, they just put a date stamp on everything they sold instead. I ended up buying several sets of this particular plier in a "Craftsman" (which was really Lang) because they were inexpensive, had black handles and were terrific.

Not an oddity, just interesting. Stamped/engraved or in house or at point off origin not really the point, just saying that it points to Zephyr making the bit and either having tooling for snap on as a customer, or snap on stamps a zephyr bit when they get it. Snap ons trademark is worth enough snap on might be pretty tight with their tooling for that stuff.

I think we can safely assume Zephyr filled in Snap-on's manufacturing for some bits, at some point, when Snap-on needed them to for some reason. Those bits are clearly not stamped with the Snap-on logo , but have the [Z] instead, and do have part numbers on them.

Yes for sure, these bits are the only ones that for sure the manufacturer can be identified.

At the moment, all we know is that it's likely Snap-on makes their own bits. If Zephyr made all their bits, more of the bits would be marked with a [Z].

I'd go even further and say we can really only safely say we have no idea who makes Snap-ons bits, except for the wera bits and the zephyr bits that are marked as zephyr. I'm going to call snap-on today or Monday when I can find some time and maybe figure this out once and for all. They are pretty open about what they manufacture in house and where. They may not be as open with their outsourced stuff though. We'll see.

 

[msevarino]

Thanks a lot for the info and all the pics.

 

[Yarpo]

 

[msevarino]

Agreed. I still think they are made by Zephyr, given how remarkably similar they look, even today.

Also as far as I know Zephyr is unique in that they forge their bits. Since the snap on bits have that same look, it stands to reason Zephyr still makes their bits.

I'll see what they have to say Monday.

 

[Yarpo]

Agreed. I still think they are made by Zephyr, given how remarkably similar they look, even today.

Also as far as I know Zephyr is unique in that they forge their bits. Since the snap on bits have that same look, it stands to reason Zephyr still makes their bits.

I'll see what they have to say Monday.

The Snap on set pictured is my coworkers whom has only been in the business for 1.5 years. Think he got them when he was at the Mercedes drive program. My zephyr set was bought within the last 6 months. Snap on could have certainly changed suppliers, but I'd consider 1.5 years tops as pretty recent so take that as you will. Let us know what you find out.

 

[KnurledNut]

The Snap on set pictured is my coworkers whom has only been in the business for 1.5 years. Think he got them when he was at the Mercedes drive program. My zephyr set was bought within the last 6 months. Snap on could have certainly changed suppliers, but I'd consider 1.5 years tops as pretty recent so take that as you will. Let us know what you find out.

Seeing as the T-20 is missing, the results are inconclusive.

 

[Yarpo]

Seeing as the T-20 is missing, the results are inconclusive.

****...I just realized that's missing out of my kit actually! What the hell. I was either using it at the time or tis missing. I actually brought it home this week, along with my drill/impact, helping my folks build a deck. I'm going to check it out. Any pics anyone wants?

 

[dnschmidt]

My question is WHY DOES IT MATTER? Zephyr makes good bits. Who gives a damn if they make Snap-On's bits or not. If they're good they're good. I don't give a damn who's name is stamped on them. Vessel makes great bits as well. I don't care who else they sell them to or under what other brand they sell time. Good is good and **** is ****. Isn't that all that matters?

 

[measuredtwice]

My question is WHY DOES IT MATTER? Zephyr makes good bits. Who gives a damn if they make Snap-On's bits or not. If they're good they're good. I don't give a damn who's name is stamped on them. Vessel makes great bits as well. I don't care who else they sell them to or under what other brand they sell time. Good is good and **** is ****. Isn't that all that matters?

Seriously? How do you know it is good if it's not the same as what you've used previously?

If I buy Snap-On bits with the expectation that they'll be the same Zephyr bits that I've used for years but receive something else then it wouldn't be what I had expected when I made my order. That change may or may not be desirable or acceptable.

Have you read the tool equivalents topics?

The OP is using "Snap-On" as well as "Zephyr" in his auction title which is why the topic came up. "Snap-On" surely gets his auction many more search hits.

 

[msevarino]

The OP is using "Snap-On" as well as "Zephyr" in his auction title which is why the topic came up. "Snap-On" surely gets his auction many more search hits.

Yes, in addition to curiosity, if there was a reasonable indication that this wasn't the case anymore, I wanted to amend the auction. I actually tried a couple days ago, and it wouldn't let me because I had sent out offers, but it seems pretty likely it is still the case that Zephyr is still their OEM supplier.

I'll cancel the auction and repost if my Tuesday call to snap-on says otherwise.

Happy memorial day all.

 

[msevarino]

Also, in the obsessive hunt for the best bits, if you are putting together sets of PB Swiss, Zephyr and Apex, and Snap on is no longer Zephyr, then there is now a 4th manufacturer to consider. If they still use Zephyr, there isn't.

 

[measuredtwice]

One thing to keep in mind is that Zephyr manufacturers products for Snap-On that are not sold under their own Zephyr branding. For example, I have Snap-On/Zephyr 1/4 slotted bits that are 0.038 inches thick but the 1/4 slotted in the Zephyr catalog is 0.042 inches thick. Likewise, Zephyr manufacturers "Magna-Tip" bits for Brownells that are not listed in the Zephyr catalog.

The OP putting "Snap-On" in the title doesn't bother me. But it is technically against Ebay rules. -->"Listings that make comparisons with other products are not allowed"

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-policies/search-browse-manipulation-policy?id=4243

Also, Snap-On probably doesn't want their name used to promote products they aren't selling. If this was a business, it wouldn't be acceptable. But I don't think it's a big deal for an individual who is selling a few extra sets.

 

[msevarino]

One thing to keep in mind is that Zephyr manufacturers products for Snap-On that are not sold under their own Zephyr branding. For example, I have Snap-On/Zephyr 1/4 slotted bits that are 0.038 inches thick but the 1/4 slotted in the Zephyr catalog is 0.042 inches thick. Likewise, Zephyr manufacturers "Magna-Tip" bits for Brownells that are not listed in the Zephyr catalog.

The OP putting "Snap-On" in the title doesn't bother me. But it is technically against Ebay rules. -->"Listings that make comparisons with other products are not allowed"

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-policies/search-browse-manipulation-policy?id=4243

Also, Snap-On probably doesn't want their name used to promote products they aren't selling. If this was a business, it wouldn't be acceptable. But I don't think it's a big deal for an individual who is selling a few extra sets.

These are all excellent points.

I think on the balance I should take the Snap on reference out. Anyone looking for these knows what they are buying. If they need to discover that zephyr is possibly snap on oem from my listing, then I don't think they are necessarily my target market.

I've got 18 months to sell these before the 0% goes away so I am not worried about selling them, but I still want to know the answer to this question.

 

[KnurledNut]

Also, in the obsessive hunt for the best bits, if you are putting together sets of PB Swiss, Zephyr and Apex, and Snap on is no longer Zephyr, then there is now a 4th manufacturer to consider. If they still use Zephyr, there isn't.

Sure there is. But they fly under the radar.

 

[M635_Guy]

So definitely not then...

 

[msevarino]

One thing to keep in mind is that Zephyr manufacturers products for Snap-On that are not sold under their own Zephyr branding. For example, I have Snap-On/Zephyr 1/4 slotted bits that are 0.038 inches thick but the 1/4 slotted in the Zephyr catalog is 0.042 inches thick. Likewise, Zephyr manufacturers "Magna-Tip" bits for Brownells that are not listed in the Zephyr catalog.

Yea I think this is especially important. Both Apex and Zephyr advertise custom tooling, even small batch custom tooling it seems, though I doubt too many people are taking them up on this. Apex claims they will do single pieces. (If anyone HAS ordered custom tooling I would love to hear about it).

In addition to the Brownells tool you mention, that valve core bit from snap on looks very similar to zephyrs z forge, and it is not in the zephyr catalog. Doesn't mean if you didn't call zephyr and ask if they had that piece they wouldn't be able to supply it. Interestingly, I noticed apex does list two bits that appear to be valve core bits, although can't find a distributor that lists them.

While I did amend the auctions to remove the snap on reference, w/r/t the eBay rule violation and why my listing likely wasn't removed, at the risk of being pedantic, I do think there is a distinction between saying the bits are a particular product, eg. this is snap on part # x, and saying a company that makes a product is the OEM sub manufacturer for a particular brand. But as I said I do think it is currently too speculative to make that claim, without positive confirmation from Snap on themselves.

 

[msevarino]

Sure there is. But they fly under the radar.

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. Am I missing the joke here or are you saying there are fly under the radar brands/manufacturers I am not mentioning that would be on par with those three brands?

 

[msevarino]

It would be an uphill battle to beat the quality of Zephyr/Snap-on bits. I've put mine on 14.4v impact guns, and you can't even see any damage to the tips.

Agreed. From my research and now my somewhat limited experience since getting Zephyr and PB Swiss bits, is that these two are really in a league of their own. I have whia and wera stuff and feel it is a grade below Zephyr/PB Swiss. The Apex stuff looks on par with Zephyr, but I have only received 5 of 80 something bits, specifically some harder to find sizes that omega has a 25 piece minimum on so I had to look elsewhere for single bits. Apex and PB Swiss cover more hard to find sizes, with Apex slightly beating out PB Swiss.

With that said, the Wera stainless bits and impaktor bits are great, but I don't use the stainless for power/impact anymore, just hand drivers.

Wera and Wiha also have a couple bits that no one else seems to make. Like Wiha's ball torx power bit, the pentalobe bits, and the torx plus tamper proof bits.

In theory, the zephyr/apex intermediate hardness bits would be more appropriate for impact, correct? Not that I am about to put a set of intermediate hardness zephyr or apex bits together, but have been curious about the application since seeing that there were the different hardness offerings.

I have to say, I do think PB Swiss edges out all others. Lifetime warranty even for bit wear, they claim, not that I have tested this yet, expansive size range (although no 9mm hex, which only apex seems to make), the phillips are cut for both JIS and standard phillips, they are offered as single pieces in the US from count on tools with free shipping over $150 and they no tax outside of Georgia, and they are beautiful tools. If you want ACR phillips or pozidrive you're out of luck though.

 

[msevarino]

Lets be clear, there is nothing logical about my obsession with this, and no functional/practical reason for me to be on this quest to find the best bits and collect them all.

 

[johninct]

Over the years, I only have bought bits from Snap-On. I decided to take inventory and put sets together for say a hollow handle screwdriver, etc. I noticed that even though some flat bits have the same numbers or were updated to a different bit, some measure different. The dimensions are off enough that I have kept multiple bits of the same number in my "Master set" to fit different screws.

 

[JBH]

I have to say, I do think PB Swiss edges out all others. Lifetime warranty even for bit wear, they claim, not that I have tested this yet, expansive size range (although no 9mm hex, which only apex seems to make)... If you want ACR phillips or pozidrive you're out of luck though.[/QUOTE]

PB Swiss definitely makes PZ bits. I have a bunch of them. If "ACR" is the toothed Williams/Snapon thing, that's no loss.

 

[msevarino]

I have to say, I do think PB Swiss edges out all others. Lifetime warranty even for bit wear, they claim, not that I have tested this yet, expansive size range (although no 9mm hex, which only apex seems to make)... If you want ACR phillips or pozidrive you're out of luck though.

PB Swiss definitely makes PZ bits. I have a bunch of them. If "ACR" is the toothed Williams/Snapon thing, that's no loss.[/QUOTE]



I meant ACR pozidrive. Pb doesn’t have ACR Phillips or ACR pozidrive.


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