ISO Progression Wrench/Socket sets

[Gar]

I have a 2019 Audi. I understand that at some point a few years ago, Audi switched from using fasteners in DIN standard sizes to fasteners that use ANSI/ISO standard sizes. I also noticed that it is hard to find a socket set or wrench set that offers only ISO/ANSI sizes.

For example, I would expect to buy a double-ended wrench set that had (all mm) 7x8, 10x13, 16x18, and 21x24 wrenches, and a socket set that had 7, 8, 10, 13, 16, 18, and 21 sockets. Yet, as far as wrenches go, I noticed most tool makers are not even making such wrenches, and none seem to be bundling them into a set like this. Gedore does offer all the aforementioned combinations, if purchased individually, but they don’t offer a set like I described, and I’m surprised more manufacturers don’t offer such combinations.

Am i misunderstanding things? Am I still likely to find DIN sized fasteners like 17mm and 19mm in a modern Audi vehicle? (I did notice my lug bolts are 17mm, so it seems like I am misunderstanding, but I was hoping he are a one-off issue.)

I am a DIYer who maintains one car and I’d rather buy higher-quality tools in fewer sizes than spread my money across all possible sizes. Further, I’d really like to minimize the size and weight of my toolbox without compromising utility too much.

 

[B_Bimmer]

You may be in the wrong place, we want all the tools in all the sizes.

 

[FuzzyTiger]

You may be in the wrong place, we want all the tools in all the sizes.

ALL the sizes... From 4 to 50 at least. Including 4.5 and 5.5 and maybe a few other half sizes along the way. In shallow, deep, semi-deep, chrome, impact, 6 point, 12 point versions of each, the full imperial sizes of each, then nut driver variants of anything 14 and below, standard wrenches for the full range, ratcheting wrenches, offset wrenches, S wrenches, half moon wrenches, long and short length in all of those... I think that's a good start? And double all that because you obviously need cheap versions to beat on, cut up etc and then nicer versions for critical things.

Edit: On that note... I wish Tekton offered an "Ultimate" socket set which included EVERY socket in one massive kit.

 

[Dave455]

DIN sizes are 7,8,10,13,17 and 19. These were, and generally still are, used on most German vehicles. Didn’t know Audi had switched but not surprised!

ISO sizes are 7,8,10,13,16 and 18. You will find these on the majority of modern British and European vehicles. I believe it is intended that DIN will come into line with ISO, so 16 and 18 will become more common. They will still be DIN sizes, but the DIN standard will change. They may already have done so.

ANSI are American sizes, and as I understand are slightly different to ISO. A 10mm bolt has a 15mm head in ANSI and 16mm in ISO. Again, I wonder if they are changing the standard to come in line with ISO?

Most European wrench makers offer a wide selection of sizes, and I think the sizes you mention are offered by Stahlwille at least. Personally, I find that anything other than pairing of adjoining sizes is a pain. I have 10/11, 12/13, 14/15, 16/17, 18,19, 21/22 etc. I include the sizes I use rarely (15mm) and only exclude the ones that don’t feature in any standard (20mm).

I’ve seen vehicles with fasteners from more than one standard (10mm bolts with both 16 and 17mm heads), so never assume that any logic will prevail once the accountants get involved. I’ve encountered Hydraulic hoses with metric fittings on one end and inch sized on the other, and a Swedish machine that had Whitworth threaded bolts with metric bolt heads. So, yes, I think it’s highly likely you will find DIN bolts in a theoretically ISO vehicle.

Personally, I keep a fairly comprehensive set (in fact sets) of wrenches in my shop and road box. If you only work on one vehicle then you will probably get to know it and work out what it uses, but even then fasteners can get replaced over time. I have one vehicle that is primarily ISO, but if I replace a fastener with Stainless it becomes DIN.

The GJ answer of “get a big set of everything” is probably correct where wrenches are concerned!

 

[2ndGearRubber]

The inherent problem with trying to pick a standard, is standards change and there are multiple standards.

For instance, you replace a control arm on your vehicle. The new hardware which came with the aftermarket part does not share the same sizes as your OE hardware. Plenty of products put 13/15/16/18 on hondas and subarus. Euro cars wouldn't be my choice to attempt to build a light tool box with - You need 3 full sets of bit sockets - torx/hex/xzn.


That said, a 2019 Audi isn't going to need a lot of work. IMO, the bigger problem is what happens when you buy a Lexus to replace it, and don't own a 14mm.

 

[Dave455]

The inherent problem with trying to pick a standard, is standards change and there are multiple standards.

That’s exactly the problem!

Trouble is, the metric system makes it worse as there are so many options.

In days of Whitworth, you wouldn’t use more than 4 or 5 bolt sizes on a small vehicle, with 4 or 5 wrenches to match.

SAE sizes probably up that to about 7 sizes (3/8 to 3/4 wrenches would cover a similar range), but in metric you’re probably looking at up to 13 potential sizes, even if one standard only picks 6 of ‘em!

 

[Ralf11]

To work (only) on a 2019 Audi you'll need to figure out what sizes are used for the tasks you intend to do - not all tasks, so not all fasteners. e.g. I'd never touch the electronics on a German car that new, so the fasteners holding associated with them won't need to be included.

You can buy good tools individually for the common tasks (which will be few on a car that new - oil/filters/tires) like Hazet or Snappy. Fill in the other sizes with cheap but decent tools. Some Ko-ken nut-grabber sockets will be useful too.

You want a 3/8" ratchet - Snappy Dual 80 locking flex. You can add a Nepros stubby flex and a Nepros 1/4"flex too. The former can be found used. you can thank me later!

SnapOn sockets are easily found used. Hazet sockets have much better knurling (Thx to M6erFan for leading me to them).

Ko-ken seems to make really nice (best?) extensions - and are a lot cheaper than SnapOn.

So, my advice is to not worry at all about a set and just buy individually. Start small for just the maint. tasks you'll do and expand later.

 

[dnschmidt]

You're fighting windmills. For example TOPTUL almost never includes 18mm in any of their sets. 15mm is also often missing. The only safe bet since most of the decent hand tools available come from Taiwan is the JIS standard of 8-10-12-14-17-19-21. The fact that 18 mm and 15mm are extensively used on American vehicles doesn't impress then at all. Bottom line is you need them all.