Issue Mounting a Bench Vise - Record 4" SQ3 from England

[sign216]

Question; mounting this vise with the swivel plate, and the swivel plate is blocking any long pieces from gripped vertically. See photo.

Am I overlooking anything?

This is one of the last vises made in England, from roughly 1995 - 2005, before Record, England's biggest vise-maker, was bought out by Irwin and production shipped to China. With 4" jaws, the vice weighs 36 lbs. The model SQ3, had a few sales in the USA, but has a quick-release feature that breaks. Fortunately the repair is easy (you lose the quick-release) and Irwin still offers parts for it (hurrah Irwin).

Joe

 

[master Zoda]

Hmm... that dose seem like a design flaw. I have no help to offer.

 

[sign216]

Record was England's top vice maker (that's how they spell "vise" over there) so it surprised me. The attachment to the swivel plate are just those two large bolts, fairly easy on-off. Perhaps the intention is for the vise to be removed when you need to clamp a vertical long piece.

 

[Beerhippie]

Add a thick jaw extension pad to the static jaw--an inch-and-a-half looks like it will do it.

 

[sign216]

Beer hippie , that's a good idea. When I get home I'll look it over to see if that would cause any issues.
Do any potential problems come to mind?

 

[The Cobbler]

that is odd, my 4" record with swivel does not have that issue.
Is it possible the swivel base got mixed up with the wrong one somehow?

 

[BlackVersa2]

I don't have any Record vises, but are all feet spaced evenly on the circumference of the swivel base?

 

[RTM]

Looks like the wrong base is on there. Check out these, the curve of the base matches the curve of the body, not sticking out like yours does.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Tools/comments/11euy28
https://www.reddit.com/r/Vintagetools/comments/139y82k
This one needs to turn the ears before it is mounted.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Tools/comments/bmrpgk

 

[dutchgray]

I would remove the swivel base and mount the vice without it.

 

[Beerhippie]

I would remove the swivel base and mount the vice without it.

I have one vise with a swivel base and one without.

I can't recall ever loosening the swivel lock screws on the swiveling base--and I've been using it for 25-odd years.

 

[Shiftless]

sign216:
I have a Record #3
Mine is marked “Made in England” rather than the Sheffield England mark on yours. I remember reading about the controversy regarding Irwin Tools manufacturing vises in China and marking them Sheffield England since the vise company corporate headquarters was in that town at least for a little while. I don’t know for sure where your vise was cast but I wouldn’t be too sure it was in England.

Mine doesn’t have that problem with the base interference.

 

[jives]

Looks like the wrong base is on there. Check out these, the curve of the base matches the curve of the body, not sticking out like yours does.

This.

 

[WAS Jr]

If that’s a three mounting hole base, rotate it. Quite often the holes are not mounted 120 degrees apart.
bill S

 

[sign216]

I figured it out, partially. The partial answer is similar to what Was Jr said; the inner base plate is not symmetrical. To make it worse, the correct position is for it to be upside-down, with the letter facing away from you (see photo). Makes for a better fit. There is still interference, but only 3/8" of added jaw depth is needed to correct this (like Beerhippie thought, add a layer to the stationary jaw).

Wrong base? It's labeled " 3 SB." Internet says this goes to the "3" vise. There are others labeled 4/5 for 4 and 5 size vices. The older vises, like Shiftless's pic of the old No. 3 vise has a better fitting base, but I can't find a pic of an alternative base for the modern SQ3 vise. For the SQ3 and the later 3VS vises, all the pictures show this swivel base, which admittedly does not fit well.

Not made in England? See the photo of the other side that says "Made in England." You are thinking of the 3VS vises, that came after the SQ3, and after Irwin bought Record. 3VS vises say Sheffield, England, but omit the Made in England.

 

[RTM]

Wrong base? It's labeled " 3 SB." Internet says this goes to the "3" vise.

The 3 and the SV3 are not the same vise, and the base may not fit them the same way.




This picture of a number 3 (was stolen off of eBay it's not mine). While they may look similar at this distance, the dimensions may not match from the bolt holes forward to the jaws. Maybe you can find someone here that has one and can measure for you or maybe find dimensions online, and compare to your vice.

Worst case maybe you can find a decent picture of one online and scale against unknown entity in the picture. Gets a little dicey when you're splitting fractions of an inch though.

 

[Shiftless]

Not made in England? See the photo of the other side that says "Made in England." You are thinking of the 3VS vises, that came after the SQ3, and after Irwin bought Record. 3VS vises say Sheffield, England, but omit the Made in England.

Yep, yours is made in England. My earlier comment was made based on the first pic where only one side was shown. Nice Vice!

 

[Shiftless]

I have a spare vise swivel base but it is probably too big. The distance between the grooves is 5 inches center to center.

 

[sign216]

Shiftless, thanks for the offer. I'll work with what I have. By adding a jaw plate to it, then I'll be clearing the base and it's good.

RTM, I think "3 SB" stands for 3 swivel base. And the bases marked "4/5 SB" are swivel bases for the 4 and 5 vises. Yes, the old no. 3 is not the same as the 3SQ, which is not the same as 3VS, but there are all Record size 3 vices, for their respective times.

 

[RTM]

RTM, I think "3 SB" stands for 3 swivel base. And the bases marked "4/5 SB" are swivel bases for the 4 and 5 vises. Yes, the old no. 3 is not the same as the 3SQ, which is not the same as 3VS, but there are all Record size 3 vices, for their respective times.

Not arguing those points.

My concern is that the geometry between the mounting holes and the jaw face of the rear jaw may have changed between the three generations you mentioned. The pix I posted above of other SQ3 vices make me pretty sure there is a difference between what you have and what they have for a swivel base

 

[bigmaq]

I figured it out, partially. The partial answer is similar to what Was Jr said; the inner base plate is not symmetrical. To make it worse, the correct position is for it to be upside-down, with the letter facing away from you (see photo). Makes for a better fit. There is still interference, but only 3/8" of added jaw depth is needed to correct this (like Beerhippie thought, add a layer to the stationary jaw).

Wrong base? It's labeled " 3 SB." Internet says this goes to the "3" vise. There are others labeled 4/5 for 4 and 5 size vices. The older vises, like Shiftless's pic of the old No. 3 vise has a better fitting base, but I can't find a pic of an alternative base for the modern SQ3 vise. For the SQ3 and the later 3VS vises, all the pictures show this swivel base, which admittedly does not fit well.

Not made in England? See the photo of the other side that says "Made in England." You are thinking of the 3VS vises, that came after the SQ3, and after Irwin bought Record. 3VS vises say Sheffield, England, but omit the Made in England.

My 3VS says ‘Made in England’

 

[RTM]

Here is a 3 and and SQ3 side by side. Notice the change in the line leading up to the rear jaw?

A Bench Vise Thread... - Page 27

There have been a lot of questions over the past few months related to vises. There are several people on here who know a lot about them, and since we all (well, most of us) work with them, I think it might be helpful to have an in-depth thread about the different old American / European bench...

weldingweb.com

 

[sign216]

Bigmaq, I see that, and also, that the swivel base is a real match for the vise. This was a time when Record was struggling to stay afloat and/or after Irwin bought it, so how knows what was going on. An internet search shows a picture of a VS3 base (below), so they are out there.

Irwin still shows the 3 size base available, but they are in the larger size that I have, and not the best fit. I think I'll use the vice as-is, for now, but keep a search going to get a smaller base like the one you have.

Rtm, I agree the vise's shape has been evolving. I'm hoping to get a swivel base that's a better fit. I might get a modern Chinese Irwin/Record vise just to cannibalize the base.

Edit: closer look suggests that the below VS3 base is a different style. I think it uses a single thumb-screw, instead of the dual bolts of heavier models. See second pic of a modern Asian/Irwin vise.