Issues learning stick

[jproaster]

I know, I know. You guys have heard what I'm going to say a lot. I've learned a good deal in reading threads and watching vids. But sometimes, you just gotta ask.

So with a new power cord on the tombstone someone gave me, I am trying to get in more practice. I've obtained some various scrap metals (cleaning it up first) and picked up some 3/32 6011 at Lowes. Practicing flat beads on 1/4" steel.

A few Issues:
1. 90 amps- lots of sticking to metal. 115 seems good.
2. Rods catch fire and turn very red once in a while. Usually if rod gets stuck; but not always with the rod fire.
3. Many beads look thin with balls of metal interspersed (just today interestingly enough).

Thanks for any corrections or any threads that are applicable.
John

PS I'm gonna have a couple fellas over soon who weld. Just want to get some practice time in.

 

[dr_clyde]

Too hot. If your rod is catching on fire, you're running way too hot.

 

[dr_clyde]

3/32" 6011, I'd run at 75 or so. 90-115 is 1/8" electrode territory.

The rod gets red hot when you have it stuck in a dead short.

 

[p_mori7]

I am not a pro by any means... but after you spark it to get it going you gotta hold it in the sweet spot close enough to keep it flowing but far enough so it doesn't stick. Keep your eyes on the puddle and keep working the puddle around as you travel along where you're laying the bead.

Seems to work pretty good for me.

~Phil.

 

[jproaster]

Too many amps. Got it.

 

[protegeV]

Damn, I thought this was gonna about manual transmissions. I was ready for a good razz.

 

[jeepinerdeep]

Move your ground clamp closer to the weld and on SHINY clean steel if not already.

 

[engineer2]

With stick welding you know you got it right when the slag peels off by itself as the weld cools. I never got that good. Back in the day I knew two welders who could do that. Coincidentally, both were Native Americans.

 

[James-W]

Damn, I thought this was gonna about manual transmissions. I was ready for a good razz.

I had to laugh when I read this comment because that was the first think I thought of too.

 

[Lwel9226]

You will probably have some less trouble if you go to a little larger rod (1/8) and run it around 90 to 115 amps, and try 6013 or 7014 rod, they should be a little easier to learn with.... After you get the hang of it then go to some of the other rod types....
Good luck with this.....

LynnW

 

[jproaster]

You will probably have some less trouble if you go to a little larger rod (1/8) and run it around 90 to 115 amps, and try 6013 or 7014 rod, they should be a little easier to learn with.... After you get the hang of it then go to some of the other rod types....
Good luck with this.....

LynnW

Thank you Lynn. Will do this asap. I think the "welding tips and tricks" guy said that it was easier for him to see the puddle with 7014.

John

 

[nh_yota]

I had to laugh when I read this comment because that was the first think I thought of too.

Me too.

 

[86turbodsl]

They all run different. Once you get good on one, move to another. I'm a pretty experienced stick welder and i still have trouble with 7018 once in a while. I find its getting tougher as i get older and can't see the puddle as well. It's all in watching the puddle.

 

[jproaster]

Damn, I thought this was gonna about manual transmissions. I was ready for a good razz.

I wondered what you were thinking...til I re-read my title.
In any other context, that would've been my first thought too : )

 

[jproaster]

Changed amps to 75. Much better. Thanks guys.

 

[FSrepair&fabrication]

Its hard to weld 1/4 effectively with 3/32 6011, I would use an 1/8 rod especially to learn with as the puddle is almost double the size of a 3/32 its alot easier to see and you can run on the higher end of settings for that rod with 1/4 steel and not burn through. that way you can adjust as you learn whats a good amperage for your speed and manipulation.

 

[FSrepair&fabrication]

My method based on experience is 3/32 rod on 1/8th steel and under, 1/8 rod on 3/16 and 1/4, 3/8 and above I usually go with 5/32, however with multiple passes you can get by with 1/8 if its all you got. Also most 6011, except the premium stuf like 5p like to overheat if you restrike the rod over and over in a short period. As a result they get progressively harder to restrike and require alot of long arcing to get it to stay lit. After I burn a short bead or 2 and have 1/2 of the rod left or so I pitch it because it leaves a big messy trail from trying to get it relit right before your bead. Buying expensive rods is pointless if youre just starting out. but dont keep using the same rod over and over until its burnt up. Grab a new rod once the tip of the flux on the one youre using looks black and is falling off.

 

[Lwel9226]

They all run different. Once you get good on one, move to another. I'm a pretty experienced stick welder and i still have trouble with 7018 once in a while. I find its getting tougher as i get older and can't see the puddle as well. It's all in watching the puddle.

This is a pretty true statement.....
Wish this site had "Likes"....

LynnW

 

[1/2 Cup]

This is a pretty true statement.....
Wish this site had "Likes"....

LynnW

Well said LynnW

 

[snyder]

One thing i might add. You may find it helpful to cut your sticks in half. Some people find it easier to control your distance from the puddle with the shorter stick.

 

[sberry]

Get rid of that 3/32 6011. The arc length is too fussy especially for beginners. I actually like 11 as good or better than 10 or 5P as it seems to relight a bit easier.

 

[strutaeng]

Get rid of that 3/32 6011. The arc length is too fussy especially for beginners. I actually like 11 as good or better than 10 or 5P as it seems to relight a bit easier.

Really? I learned on 3/32 6011 with AC only Thunderbolt. I'm no expert by any means, still learning.

I vaguely remember 1/8 (vs. 3/32) 6011 was easier because there was less heat, but for me the biggest problem was sticking when trying to start the arc. After it got started it seemed easy.

I just struck arc on my first 7018 electrode a few days ago with an old Dialarc that I bought for $200. The problem is that the amp indicator binds so I had to removed it. I was welding just by "feel," LOL.

OP, are you on AC or DC? What machine are you using? Can you post some photos?

 

[lilredex]

The easiest rods I have used are U.S. Forge #01621. They are 3/32 and I believe they are "7014" . Try them if you can find them.

My buzz box is fused at 30 Amp. so my max is 90 Amp. output, and those rods are perfect for it.

http://us-forge.com/Products/Welding/Electrodes.htm

http://forum.theweldingforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2619

Anyone know who handles them? I got mine at PAL surplus but that was a one time thing.

 

[sberry]

a buzzer will run from a 40 most of the time. if this circuit is used for welding only the breaker can be changed to let it run rods a size larger. Since most AC guys have to buy rods and cant steal them from work the real things to use is 11 and 7018AC. Amateurs,,, and some others fart around with other stuff but these are cant miss and the puddle is clearer than 7014, it runs a little better vertical also. It has the same penetration as 6013 and better mechanical properties.
I am a 3 rod shop. I have others, they rot as I don't use them. But, 1/8 6011, 3/32 7018 and 1/8 7018. When I bought a little Maxstar I bought some 3/32 in 11 and 13. I have used 1 rod out of each and a couple on a test of another machine. I fell back to what I was using for the last 30 years and in the same sizes.
This is a huge advantage of 11, low current. While 13 is milder penetration the current is way higher. Kind of makes it pointless and a skilled operator can do sheet on 11 anyway, it freezes much faster.

 

[jproaster]

Thank you all for the wealth of knowledge you share. Not just true amps, rod, metal info etc., but what has worked for you to learn.

Lowes has some 7018 in 1/8 that I'm eager to get hold of and cut in half to practice on some 1/4" plate.

John

 

[WagonHo!]

Damn, I thought this was gonna about manual transmissions. I was ready for a good razz.

Me too, damn.

 

[jproaster]

7018 1/8- Soooo much better to learn. I've made leaps...well, (to me) today.

Thanks again all.

John

 

[66cj225]

Having just dried some 6011 on the wood stove, there is a very different color between wet and dry. I found the dry is a darker grey/brown. There's a lot less junk to grind off after.

 

[Jim greengo]

If you get the chance to get your hands on an ac/dc stick welder for a decent price jump on it,dc is a lot easier to weld with .

 

[brownbagg]

use two hands

want to have fun, get some 6024

 

[Muggzy]

How so?

... want to have fun, get some 6024

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[sberry]

I can weld 16 ga with 1/8 6011. Its touchy, I turn down 10 for it. I might turn down 5 for 14 and can weld right along. I can weld 12 and above full power, I like the speed for 10 gage. The 3/32 is fussy and not enough wire to fill gaps. If the fit is wider than the electrode its hard to fill.
On 16 nearly bury the arc sometimes and nearly short it out,, put in a stripper pass of sorts to create a little heat sink and then come back to seal it or add filler, maybe even improve appearance a little.
I dont have many file pics of sheet steel with sticks.

 

[Jim greengo]

7018 1/8- Soooo much better to learn. I've made leaps...well, (to me) today.

Thanks again all.

John

My favorite rod

 

[sberry]

I havnt ran a new Hobart stickmate. I wonder how much poop it will make on 120 before it trips a breaker. The specs are slightly different from a Maxstar which really works. I would like to try an Everlast small stick and see if it hangs in there with the Maxstar, its DVI and well under 300$. I paid 8 for a MaxS 10 years ago. Everlast has improved reliability a lot since then.
The 300 cost would make it a super maintenance tool. Couldn't afford not to have a welder and it will run 1/8 lo hi from 240V

 

[sberry]

My bud, the ultimate compulsive type was trying to fix one of those, ran the **** out of it for 5 years, now it needs a 300$ part. ****, buy a new one already instead of doing without and get on with it. I would be looking to upgrade the AC buzzer in a bit after you get the feel for it especially if you want to do out of position equipment repair or building.
A used DC buzzer is nice in the shop but an inverter is super for field work.
Pic is 7018 overhead, not real straight but smooth. Low spatter. Ideal for welding 1/4 bracket to beam. Could be improved by practice. If speed was an issue could use larger electrode.
Actually overhead fillet is my favorite weld if its not too hard. I should make it a point to weld some once a week. Hobart has a Stickmate now about 200A, runs 240 only but is under 600$ I think. It would burn some 5/32 lo hy nice and toasty at about 80% throttle. Runs from 50A

 

[86turbodsl]

That's a nice overhead bead. Good job.

 

[kerrynzl]

Damn, I thought this was gonna about manual transmissions. I was ready for a good razz.

I had to laugh when I read this comment because that was the first think I thought of too.

Funny, It reminded me of the issues I had with a "Learning Stick" that my dad beat me with.

 

[BD1]

Skip 1/8'' 7018 and get 3/32. You get more rods and I can't see you needing 1/8'' for anything. We run 3/32'' 7018 for 6'' schedule 40 pipe.
IF you use 1/8'' 6010 0r 11 the heat setting for 7018 3/32'' is pretty close. So when we set the machine one heat works for both rods. Machines can be 500' away. Make sure you get AC 7018 if running on AC.

Resting your arms / hands on something helps too. You could even rest on a 2x4 , anything to be rock solid for learning. You could cut rods in half which will make it easier too. Grabbing the rod a couple inches down works. Just grab and wiggle to break coating off.

6010 and 11 are fast freeze rods . This means they cool pretty quick when moving rod in and out of puddle as in filling a gap. Stick is tougher than mig because you have to compensate as the rod burns away. Each process has it's good and bad points. 6010 is great for old rusty metal as on farm equipment. Painted metal is a little tougher to weld on without removing paint but can be done.

 

[jproaster]

Thanks for explaining the 6010-11 rods. There's so much to learn.

And while I don't know how easy 3/32 7018 rods would be with learning...I do know that the 3/32 6011 rods were a nightmare for learning compared to 1/8 7018 rods.

John

 

[sberry]

The smaller 7018 are a bit easier. The current is lower and due to the nature of the operating characteristics it is easier to keep consistent arc length.