It would work- but is it permitted by code?

[CoogarXR]

At my new place, I have a small attached 1.5 car garage that has two 120v circuits fed by a 10/3. The 10/3 has a 30A 240v breaker in the house, and it terminates in the garage with a 2-slot breaker box with 2 15A branches for the garage interior.

Forgive me if this is a dumb idea, but I have a 240v submersible pump that I would like to run occasionally. Could I put a 240v outlet BEFORE the small subpabel? The 10/3 would go to the 240v socket first (still protected by the 30a breaker in the house), and then another piece of 10/3 would continue to the existing subpanel?

I'm not worried about overloading the line, the pump is only like 5A and the two 120v circuits have no existing load on them at all. Just empty receptacles and a few overhead LED lights.

I know it would work functionally, but is it allowed?

 

[The Cobbler]

sounds like it would be easy to add a larger panel and add a 15 amp double breaker for the pump.

 

[MovingAlong]

Do you know who your AHJ (authority having jurisdiction) is? (City, county, etc..) Call and ask for the permit office, talk with an inspector about what you have planned. They'll let you know.

 

[niget2002]

sounds like it would be easy to add a larger panel and add a 15 amp double breaker for the pump.

This is what I'd do. New, larger panel, with the two 15A 120's and the single 240v output.

 

[CoogarXR]

This is what I'd do. New, larger panel, with the two 15A 120's and the single 240v output.

Can you do this with only a 10/3 feed?

 

[The Cobbler]

I don't see why not. not overload it in any way , and with 10/3 you have 240 & 120 available

 

[dcg9381]

Can you do this with only a 10/3 feed?

Sure you can feed a sub panel with 30A and outputs might be more than the sum of the upstream breaker.

I do not think you can "branch" a 30A @ 240V feed. Nor are 240V outlets made for input/output.

 

[CoogarXR]

Alrighty then, looks like I'll just buy a bigger panel (like a 6/8 slot or so) and just add a breaker for the 240v outlet.

Thanks dudes.

 

[larry_g]

Alrighty then, looks like I'll just buy a bigger panel (like a 6/8 slot or so) and just add a breaker for the 240v outlet.

Thanks dudes.

It seems to me I remember that a 6 slot does not require a master breaker but more than 6 does? Check me on this.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[The Cobbler]

It seems to me I remember that a 6 slot does not require a master breaker but more than 6 does? Check me on this.

lg
no neat sig line

if that's required, he can always use the 2 slot existing box and install a 30 amp breaker . in fact without knowing the situation, it may be easier to leave it in and add a panel to that. ( and maybe not a bad idea in any event)

 

[mm08822]

The garage is attached so a disconnect in a sub-panel is not required.

A small panel makes for the easiest changes.

BTW, number of cb slots does not determine the 6 throws of hand.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

At my new place, I have a small attached 1.5 car garage that has two 120v circuits fed by a 10/3. The 10/3 has a 30A 240v breaker in the house, and it terminates in the garage with a 2-slot breaker box with 2 15A branches for the garage interior.

Forgive me if this is a dumb idea, but I have a 240v submersible pump that I would like to run occasionally. Could I put a 240v outlet BEFORE the small subpabel? The 10/3 would go to the 240v socket first (still protected by the 30a breaker in the house), and then another piece of 10/3 would continue to the existing subpanel?

I'm not worried about overloading the line, the pump is only like 5A and the two 120v circuits have no existing load on them at all. Just empty receptacles and a few overhead LED lights.

I know it would work functionally, but is it allowed?

why not just swap in a larger subpanel instead of running the current thru the junction box of the receptacle? more points of failure instead of less

that pump may also need to be protected by a breaker smaller than 30a

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Sure you can feed a sub panel with 30A and outputs might be more than the sum of the upstream breaker.

I do not think you can "branch" a 30A @ 240V feed. Nor are 240V outlets made for input/output.

there is no prohibition on that and the 240v receptacle would not only not have a way to connect more than 1 wire per terminal but #10 probably wont fit either, so he would have to splice it all in a j box. solid #10 is not fun to work with or splice in a small j box either

 

[wyliesdiesels]

It seems to me I remember that a 6 slot does not require a master breaker but more than 6 does? Check me on this.

lg
no neat sig line

doesnt apply to panel in attached building with main service panel or feeding subpanel

 

[dcg9381]

there is no prohibition on that and the 240v receptacle would not have a way to connect more than 1 wire per terminal so he would have to splice it all in a j box. solid #10 is not fun to work with or splice in a small j box

Thanks.. I think I was confusing branching at the out.

 

[nadogail]

Do you know who your AHJ (authority having jurisdiction) is? (City, county, etc..) Call and ask for the permit office, talk with an inspector about what you have planned. They'll let you know.

Take a box of Doughnuts when you visit them.

 

[AA/FC]

My local city electrical inspector told me that he actually enjoys it when home owners call and ask for advice. He said that is part of his job.... He also said it's a different story for electrical contractors, they are supposed to already know the answers.

 

[mm08822]

My local city electrical inspector told me that he actually enjoys it when home owners call and ask for advice. He said that is part of his job.... He also said it's a different story for electrical contractors, they are supposed to already know the answers.

You found a .

 

[wyliesdiesels]

My local city electrical inspector told me that he actually enjoys it when home owners call and ask for advice. He said that is part of his job.... He also said it's a different story for electrical contractors, they are supposed to already know the answers.

that is rare

 

[driftpin]

My local city electrical inspector told me that he actually enjoys it when home owners call and ask for advice. He said that is part of his job.... He also said it's a different story for electrical contractors, they are supposed to already know the answers.

I think that is dependent on the workload of the plans examiner.

If they're short staffed and under pressure to reduce the size of the backlog of permits for review then they probably are not going to be teaching the code to a novice. In the jurisdiction of where I worked if something failed twice for the same reason the qualifier would be required to come in and sit with the Chief Inspector for that discipline and possibly the Chief Building official. They would review the plans and settle any issues so that the person pulling the permit would know what direction they needed to go.

 

[Jimmyrace]

sounds like it would be easy to add a larger panel and add a 15 amp double breaker for the pump.

and proper way to handle this

 

[Jimmyrace]

Sure you can feed a sub panel with 30A and outputs might be more than the sum of the upstream breaker.

I do not think you can "branch" a 30A @ 240V feed. Nor are 240V outlets

 

[Jimmyrace]

It seems to me I remember that a 6 slot does not require a master breaker but more than 6 does? Check me on this.

lg
no neat sig line

quite actually, if it is more of a separate building issue than the size of the panel - if it is a seperate bldng. then it should have a local "disconnect", which could just be another 2p/30A breaker in the panel (backfed), which technically should be held down w/ a screw-kit, but in some instances i think you can zip-tie that breaker in place if no set.screw location exists ... and i have not seen any 30A breakers w/ a hole for that set-up anyway.

 

[Jimmyrace]

please ignore my replies - everybody already answered your Q's ... guess i should read the whole thread before replying next time lol.

Lotta Good Knowledge here! - Take Care Y'all !

 

[AA/FC]

that is rare

Yeah, not every electrical inspector is an *******. This particular city inspector was also one of the electrical instructors at the local tech college for 18 years. He enjoys explaining things to people who ask questions.