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It's Exactly Opposite to What You Might Think

dnschmidt

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Oct 3, 2014
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I love torque wrenches and I have a ton of them. I've even sold torque wrenches but something I have experienced for both myself and many of my friends is that NORMALLY people UNDERTORQUE stuff a lot more than they overtorque stuff. The exception to this rule is impact tools. But, if using normal hand tools I've found that 9 times out of ten when I, or my buddies, think they have tightened something to specification (particularly on my Porsche or my friends on either their Porsche's or Honda motorcycles have in fact insufficiently tightened the fastener. This, I believe is counter to what most people think. It might be the aluminum that makes us gun shy. Just wonder what others think about this.
 
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1cargarage

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I couldn't say with regards to torquing on Porsches, but the high-dollar brandedness might make the average mortal a bit gunshy. I personally cut my teeth on mid century farm equipment - the really heavy/tough stuff - and with regards to tightening without an impact... we were never shy. It was torqued sufficiently if it 1) didn't twist-off the fastener and 2) didn't work itself loose while being pulled behind a tractor. The torque wrench was used only when specs were available and considered necessary by the boss. I.e. If it was a manifold, I probably reached for the torque wrench. Lugnuts on a tractor? Probably not.

I suppose also that if I know I'm going to torque something, I'll just snug it up well under the torque value and finish with the torque wrench. Whether or not I'd be under or over? I couldn't say, as I used the torque wrench. If that makes sense.
 

JR 42

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I couldn't say with regards to torquing on Porsches, but the high-dollar brandedness might make the average mortal a bit gunshy. I personally cut my teeth on mid century farm equipment - the really heavy/tough stuff - and with regards to tightening without an impact... we were never shy. It was torqued sufficiently if it 1) didn't twist-off the fastener and 2) didn't work itself loose while being pulled behind a tractor. The torque wrench was used only when specs were available and considered necessary by the boss. I.e. If it was a manifold, I probably reached for the torque wrench. Lugnuts on a tractor? Probably not.

I suppose also that if I know I'm going to torque something, I'll just snug it up well under the torque value and finish with the torque wrench. Whether or not I'd be under or over? I couldn't say, as I used the torque wrench. If that makes sense.

I worked summers on a farm in the 90's, most of the newer equipment was from the 70's ($5/ bushel wheat, hot damn! We got half that when I was there), and I don't remember ever seeing a torque wrench... buuuut I also wasn't ever tasked with doing critical stuff. Most engine and futzy work happened over the winter unless there was a breakdown (very rare, thankfully), we were busy spraying, rod- weeding, prepping combines and trucks, and harvesting. The rule of thumb was damn tight, but don't strip it... most hardware was replaced as needed with grade 5 or 8. Once I got the hang of it, I didn't have any troubles.
 

Junkdrawer Dog

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I spent a lot of my life working on motorcycles. Many times I had to work without the benefit of a torque wrench. When faced with small fasteners threaded into aluminum alloy I always played it conservatively. I figured something that was a little under spec could always be snugged up a bit but something stripped or snapped off was a great way to ruin an afternoon.
 

LeeG

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None of the electrical connectors in the panel for my house were even close to the right torque although all of them felt tight. When I redid the outlets and switches in my house, I finished off each conductor fastener with a torque screwdriver.
 

Samuel D

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Apr 9, 2019
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You can’t check the torque of a tight fastener by trying to turn it with a torque wrench. Well, you can, but if it doesn’t move, it doesn’t tell you much. It might be under-torqued by 20% but not move, because of sticking friction.

And that’s fasteners that you’ve just set. Ones done yesterday or last year or last decade might be farther out by corrosion or lack of grease.

For a torque wrench to give a good result, the fastener has to be moving, free of stick-slip, smoothly and slowly at about 20–30 degrees per second, with a long final swing to target torque – ideally a quarter of a turn. That’s 3 or 4 seconds for that last quarter turn. Slow.

A lot of people swing the wrench too quickly, bang into the end of the free travel after the click, ignore the problem when a bolt jerks or creaks, don’t give a long final swing (sometimes you have to back it out to redo the final swing from a better starting position once you know roughly where it will end), and don’t exercise a click-type wrench half a dozen times at the target torque or higher if they haven’t already used the wrench that day.

These things matter more for accuracy than whether the torque wrench is specced to 2% or 4% accuracy in a lab test – where all of these details, and others, get the attention they deserve.

I had farming neighbours as a child in the UK, which might by why I tend to over-torque things when left to guesswork. Massey Fergusons from half a century ago could take a lot of abuse.

But I have noticed, as dnschmidt says, that most people under-torque instead. This is especially pronounced with people who have desk jobs and little mechanical experience. Many of them barely snug up the fastener, leaving it at comically low torque and therefore tension. That ruins things just as surely as excessive torque; it just takes a little longer before the damage becomes apparent. And it might be even more dangerous, because something falling off in operation can be worse than a bolt breaking in the garage.
 

sberry

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When engine rebuilding and valve jobs were regular maintenance on cars guys used to get a feel. I saw some tests at a trade show, young guys didn't know the difference between 7 and 25#.
I rarely use one, we call the rest of it,, farmer tight. We also spray about every bolt, dry sticky bolt doesn't tighten.
 
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Mechanical Noise

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I love torque wrenches and I have a ton of them. I've even sold torque wrenches but something I have experienced for both myself and many of my friends is that NORMALLY people UNDERTORQUE stuff a lot more than they overtorque stuff. The exception to this rule is impact tools. But, if using normal hand tools I've found that 9 times out of ten when I, or my buddies, think they have tightened something to specification (particularly on my Porsche or my friends on either their Porsche's or Honda motorcycles have in fact insufficiently tightened the fastener. This, I believe is counter to what most people think. It might be the aluminum that makes us gun shy. Just wonder what others think about this.

The feel for torque gets alot better after breaking a few bolts. Aluminum, being softer, probably mimics a stretching bolt pretty well.
 

liliysdad

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Jul 18, 2008
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None of the electrical connectors in the panel for my house were even close to the right torque although all of them felt tight. When I redid the outlets and switches in my house, I finished off each conductor fastener with a torque screwdriver.

You torqued every single outlet and switch screw? Really?
 

speed bump

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Butte Montana
Most of my friends came out of the oil field, mining or farming and tighter than it should be is the minimum. I remember working with a guy who would become a good friend of mine and I watched him assemble down hole tools with a torque spec of 150 ft lbs by standing and bouncing his 250 lb body off a 24" wrench. After that I never let him build the tool string without a torque wrench until he got a feel for it.
 

toolmutt

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Texas
"until you hear the snap..."
"damn tight, but don't strip it"
"farmer tight"

I was taught, "Two grunt tight"
 

APEowner

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I've been turning wrenched on one thing or another for 40 years. I've got a pretty good feel for tightening stuff. I still use a torque wrench for critical stuff but it's exceedingly rare that something I tightened without one strips or falls out.
 
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dnschmidt

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Alright, I'll admit it I'm not a farmer. In fact I was 21 years old before I ever saw a live cow and when I did I found this experience sort of scary. I'm from downtown Pittsburgh, PA., Bloomfield to be exact, and my backyard was made out of concrete. With this background you might be able to understand that "farmer tight" has little meaning to me since I've never actually ever met a farmer. Now, my dad did grow tomatoes in five gallon buckets in our concrete backyard, but the folks in “American Gothic” are foreign to me. I'm now 68 years old and live in Phoenix which isn't exactly Iowa. Now that we've got that out of the way I fail to see much relationship between a Porsche boxer engine and a Caterpillar bulldozer blade. I think we’ve gotten a little off topic.
 

Spacey_G

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Many of them barely snug up the fastener, leaving it at comically low torque and therefore tension. That ruins things just as surely as excessive torque; it just takes a little longer before the damage becomes apparent.
This is absolutely right. Insufficient fastener pre-load can result in a significantly worse fatigue situation in bolted joints subjected to cyclical loading. Those torque specs don't just exist to prevent the bolt from coming loose. You could weld the fastener in place and if it's not clamping tight enough still have a failure.
 

1cargarage

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Alright, I'll admit it I'm not a farmer. In fact I was 21 years old before I ever saw a live cow and when I did I found this experience sort of scary. I'm from downtown Pittsburgh, PA., Bloomfield to be exact, and my backyard was made out of concrete. With this background you might be able to understand that "farmer tight" has little meaning to me since I've never actually ever met a farmer. Now, my dad did grow tomatoes in five gallon buckets in our concrete backyard, but the folks in “American Gothic” are foreign to me. I'm now 68 years old and live in Phoenix which isn't exactly Iowa. Now that we've got that out of the way I fail to see much relationship between a Porsche boxer engine and a Caterpillar bulldozer blade. I think we’ve gotten a little off topic.

I was talking mainly about one's tendency to be a bit more liberal with one's leverage when wrenching on a row of plough bottoms or tracks on a Cat D6, mainly because those particular implements are/were (generally) grade 8 everything, seasoned with decades of rust, devoid of oil/anti-seize, etc than following a bolt pattern on a porsche manifold. The jobs where torque isn't critical become obvious fairly quickly if you're paying attention (like most people on here are/do) :)
 

KnurledNut

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:wtf: :confused: Why back it off 1/4 turn? Seeing how long it takes the now loose nut to back off? Unless something SPECIFICALLY says to do that then cotter pin it (like old school castle nuts), you're defeating the purpose of torquing.


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VolvoRyan

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There's probably a thread size story. And a wrench length story. It's easy to over tighten small fasteners, but bigger fasteners can require more than you think.

-Ryan
 

Jagmandave

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Those of us who have worked in the trades a good long time have a very good and accurate feel for how tight a fastener needs to be, but we still use a torque wrench when we should - head bolts, manifold bolts, lug nuts etc. all need to be "correct", not just tight.

I think it's funny that some people on here didn't understand the "tighten till it snaps then back off" jokes.

Those are the guys that need to use a torque wrench - always!
 

Handyandy23

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After breaking a handful of smaller fasteners in my youth, I think it makes perfect sense that most would be under torqued by hand. 6mm or 8mm bolt going into an aluminum engine piece I'll definitely leave a little on the loose side. If it's "critical" I'll use a torque wrench.

If you over torque something and then back it off with a torque wrench you might have already stretched or damaged the bolt. Also a lot of newer stuff is designed "torque to yield" so there isn't a lot of wiggle room for over torquing.

If it's a small fastener that I don't care too much about then I'll get it tight with a short ratchet. If it's a large one I don't care about then I'll use a small impact. IMO there's a certain degree of common sense required. Torquing revert single fastener in a stationary seems like overkill to me, unless you're the manufacturer that needs to CYA and keep QC checklists.
 
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