Its Time for lights!!! Finally!!

[moparmatt]

Ok I could really use some help here Please!!!! My ceiling is 11' my demensions are 26'w X 50'L with one garage door 16' X 8' on the west end. All interior walls and ceiling will be painted white. we installed the membrane roofing yesterday and I went with No skylights but I installed 6 12"X 12" glass blocks on the south side and 4 12"X 12" glass blocks on the east side. any suggestions for my Mopar Cave, thanks

 

[NUTTSGT]

I'd go with the old fluorescent lamps. I have several 4' T12 fixtures in my shop and am for the most part happy with them. If I had to do it again, I'd more than likely use 8 footers.

 

[bucs012]

Tons of info on this site, but still confusing as to the feedback and thoughts. I must tell you, I have done the same as you and need to decide within the next few weeks on lights for my 50x30. As of now I am leaning towards T8, 4', 4 lamps and surface mounted. Lithonia brand at Home Depot. Around $60 a pop (I am going to start with 14 of them, but wire for 19) and easy to replace and buy.

I live in Iowa so I want them to fire up on 10 degree days or 90 degree days. from what I have learned of all the reading off this site is to make sure your lamps have an electronic ballast and are rated residential which is GEB or GESB or RE. I believe.......

 

[Chris Adams]

Having bought the 40 buck T8 fixtures at HD, and returned them, the 44 buck fixtures at Lowes, and am returning them, I would suggest the 10 buck or 15 buck stainless T8 fixtures at Walmart. They are light, easy to mount, no noise, no buzz, no static, no failures yet on my ten.
T12 is DEAD.

Can't see the justification of going with the 8 foot tubes as the cost per watt of light is two to ten times as much.

20 double T8 fixtures would probably light your place up pretty nicely.

 

[bucs012]

Chris- Do you know if the brand name was Lithonia you bought at HD? I did a search under Lithonia on the site and it seems to be the one that most people say is best.

I also have heard that Texas Fluorescent makes a nice fluorescent light but I don't see anyone on this site that has used them via the Search.

 

[Chris Adams]

Chris- Do you know if the brand name was Lithonia you bought at HD? I did a search under Lithonia on the site and it seems to be the one that most people say is best.

I also have heard that Texas Fluorescent makes a nice fluorescent light but I don't see anyone on this site that has used them via the Search.

I have two dead (one dead bank on each light) Lithonia in the garage to be returned right now.


I have never been a fan of Lights of America, the brand being sold at Wal-Mart. I have had lots of short lifespan bulbs from them back when CFL were new.
However, the cheap lights they are selling right now are very decent.

The metal used in the Lithonia bodies is thicker.
The Lithonia fluorescents lights I have now include a pull chain, which is up at the ceiling and useless to me, but may be handy for some.
Overall the ‘feel’ and appearance of the Lithonia lights is better.
It’s just the dang results. They don’t seem to be very high quality, and the ballasts are plain bad. I didn’t pull my lights apart to inspect the ballasts to see which number they have. Perhaps they have now fixed the problem on some of their lights.

Still cannot see 400% increase in price over Wal-Mart for the product.

When properly installed, out of reach, the thickness of the metal doesn’t signify. That is the only area the Lithonia lights seem superior.

 

[Piper]

well, fwiw, here's what I did. I took a look at a room that was nicely lit with 32 watt fluorescent tubes and had an 11' ceiling height. It had 1.5 watts per square foot. So that's exactly what I did in my new garage and I love it. Smooth, even light, no shadows. I used 4100k tubes as well.

Applying that to your situation, you have 1300 sq feet, x 1.5 watts/ft-sq = 1950 watts total required. At 32 watts per 4' tube that's 60 tubes, or 30 fixtures.

Incidentally, in my 24 x 32 garage I have 24 fixtures (48 bulbs) so I'm slightly higher in wattage. Mine are on 3 different banks so I can turn on 1/3, 2/3 or all lamps.

This, I believe, is one of those situations where more is better.

Piper

 

[hetkind]

I got a pickup load of the T-8 two bulb strips at my local electrical supply house for $28 each...and gave away a CASE of t-12 bulbs since now, when a t-12 fixture fails, it will get replaced by a T-8 fixture.

Oh, bought a batch of the lithonia fixtures, T-12 twin bulbs, from Home Depot in Fort Worth, Texas...out of an initial purchase of three fixtures, TWO had bad ballasts out of the box...

And avoid 8' fixtures, the ballasts are EXPENSIVE

Howard

 

[bucs012]

I got a pickup load of the T-8 two bulb strips at my local electrical supply house for $28 each...and gave away a CASE of t-12 bulbs since now, when a t-12 fixture fails, it will get replaced by a T-8 fixture.

Oh, bought a batch of the lithonia fixtures, T-12 twin bulbs, from Home Depot in Fort Worth, Texas...out of an initial purchase of three fixtures, TWO had bad ballasts out of the box...

And avoid 8' fixtures, the ballasts are EXPENSIVE

Howard

What BRAND of lights did you get from your local electrical supply house?

I too heard the Lithonia T12 bulbs are junk, but the T8's are OK. My electrician, wiring my garage told me last night to stay away from all t-12 bulbs no matter what I do. Go with T8 for cold/hot.

 

[psjoyal]

...I would suggest the 10 buck or 15 buck stainless T8 fixtures at Walmart. They are light, easy to mount, no noise, no buzz, no static, no failures yet on my ten.

Chris, are these a 2-tube, 4' fixture? Do you have an item number? I just did a search on Wal-Mart.com and didn't see anything, but you've peaked my interest. At $10-15/light, I might be able to get to my lights sooner than later.
Thanks,
Philip

 

[Chris Adams]

Model number 8045 E is the white one. I just picked up another one today, so I still have the box. Assembled in USA (with import parts, of course) Lights of America.

The red lettered white box is the white one. Sells for less than 10.00, the blue lettered white box is the stainless steel one, sells for about 15.00.

Tonight I have 11 of the model 8045 E 's running in the shop and was listening to talk radio, no static.

They take the commonest T8 bulbs, the four footers. I'm using a mixture of Phillips and 'contractor pack' bulbs, and don't see much difference besides the price. The buck a piece bulbs from Lowe's are a good bargain.
If I wanted really blue/white light I would get the 'daylight' bulbs. I think they are about 3 bucks a bulb in the ten packs at Home Depot. They are kinda harsh though.


adding;
Link to the lights at their home page
http://www.lightsofamerica.com/Products/8045E.aspx

 

[Shocker]

I am using the red box Lights of America from Walmart in my shop. 9 installed so far with only one being bad out of the box. Phillips 4100k bulbs. Looks great and zero RFI or buzz. 9 bucks each.

 

[prc07nascar]

chris does walmart still sell these lights? i dont see them on there web site. i havent went to my local store yet.

 

[Shocker]

I just bought some at my local Walmart. They only seem to carry 2 or 3 at a time, so I stop in and buy them here and there. Looking to top out at about 18 or so.

 

[Chris Adams]

I just bought some at my local Walmart. They only seem to carry 2 or 3 at a time, so I stop in and buy them here and there. Looking to top out at about 18 or so.

Ditto. We have two Walmarts including a 'super walmart' which has less inventory than the regular one...

They max at six a store, stocking level for a B store, which is what both ours are.
So you have to stop by on occasion. Took me three trips to get to ten, but then, I wouldn't take any of the damaged, taped or already been sold once packages so it took longer.

They get two trucks a week most places, FYI.

No, they are not on the website. Crummy website, search function is among the worst.

 

[prc07nascar]

ok chris, im going with the walmart lights since you have had such good luck with them, all i hear on here about lowes and HD is bad stuff so im staying away from those. i went today by 2 walmarts in my area and was able to score 2 fixtures at each store so i will keep checking back. what about the bulbs, which ones should i go with? (4100k or 6500k) i dont know what the #s mean but i see alot about different bulbs on here. my shop is 30x30x12 with light grey epoxy floor and white insulated walls and unfinished ceiling, in your opinion how many should i use, how bright are they? and how old are yours, how long you been using them? sorry if i ask to much but all this and yourself have really help me.

 

[Chris Adams]

ok chris, im going with the walmart lights since you have had such good luck with them, all i hear on here about lowes and HD is bad stuff so im staying away from those. i went today by 2 walmarts in my area and was able to score 2 fixtures at each store so i will keep checking back. what about the bulbs, which ones should i go with? (4100k or 6500k) i dont know what the #s mean but i see alot about different bulbs on here. my shop is 30x30x12 with light grey epoxy floor and white insulated walls and unfinished ceiling, in your opinion how many should i use, how bright are they? and how old are yours, how long you been using them? sorry if i ask to much but all this and yourself have really help me.

Wow, pretty tall order here. I can hit some of this;
I went with a mix of 4100 and 6500 but that was more because I had some leftover 6500 bulbs.
4100 is pretty much your normal fluorescent light. Much like you see in stores everywhere, or in the old R12 bulbs.
The 6500 is the 'daylight' type. I have them in two rooms in my house, and the 4100 in another room. The 4100 looks 'normal' if you are in it. Then walk into the 6500 room near by and it looks blue. Odd looking. The actual light may be better as it is nearer to daylight, they say.
Lots use them for in door plant growing. Possibly legal plants, but I wouldn't know...

If you use to few lights, use the 6500. Otherwise they may not pay for themselves.
If you buy them at HD they are about twice as expensive as 4100, even worse than the bulk 4100 bulbs at Lowe's.

If money was no object I would probably use the 6500s, as there is a little more light there for the wattage.

In my shop I presently have 13 double fixtures, or 26 bulbs. Light gray epoxy floor, white pegboard and silver radiant barrier for walls. That's in a 672 square foot garage, or one bulb per 25 square feet. Most people would say it is too bright. I am thinking of adding another fixture or two, but I am older, my eyesight isn't what it used to be.
I also have a single light (500 watt equivalent) right over my work bench. My eyes are old and that helps.

My oldest lights in this set are only a year old. Most are only 90 days or so as my shop is new. The older ones I moved from the garage to the new shop.
So I can't say how long these fixtures will last. I have seen posts from people using them for three years or more, but I haven't.

You can always assume you will use bulbs faster than you should if you don't heat/cool the shop like you do your house.
I notice the bulbs that are left on last longer by a LOT.
However, I switch mine on and off all the time. If I leave the shop I shut them down. Maybe five-six times a day. They are off at night.


I lost one of 13 of the WalMart units. Just died after a cold night. Of course, WalMart exchanged it no problem but I did lose one. Still better odds than HD or Lowe's units, at 1/4 the price.

 

[franksinatra]

Dont want to threadjack here but how are you guys fastening the wal-mart lights to the ceiling? I dont really want to hang them on hooks, I would like to mount them tight to the ceiling. Then again a bit of air movement over the top isnt a bad idea.
Are you guys just putting outlet boxes next to each light or are you cutting off the plugs and hard wiring them? Thanks, G

 

[Chris Adams]

Good questions on the mounting.
In my case I borrowed another members idea and since my rafters are open I just screwed two 1x4 cross pieces, each 4 feet long sideways on the lights. In other words, the lights form an H pattern, with the bulbs on the cross part.
I HATE the hanging chains, used them in the garage for years, they **** at best.

I also wanted them higher, so the lights are protected by the rafters. This puts the lights higher for better lighting and out of harms way. Also looks cleaner. Standing at one end of the shop you actually don't see most the fixtures.
It also allows me to move the lights around easily. I can shove it about three feet along the length, and about 12 inches side to side.
This lets me optimize the light in a way that permanently hanging or mounting wouldn't allow.

Example, today while sorting nuts/bolts etc. into my various hoppers and cabinets I discovered that there was too much shadow in that corner.
One minute of adjusting the light and now I'm happy.


I added 7 ceiling outlets to the one that was already there. I hate using extension cords and I also hate running miles of hardwire to fixtures. Which would be hard to do, and make them immovable.


These lights would be easy to hard mount to the ceiling as they have very small electronic ballasts that don't seem to get very hot.
And they do come with those rinkydink chains.

 

[427HISS]

A little addition about the light tubes. I've been a salt water reef hobbyist for many years. The kelvin temperature of light is

4,000 kelvin is yellowish.
5,000 kelvin is considered pure white.
As you go up in the scale any further, the light is blue.

Most hobbyists like using a halide bulb, either a 6500 kelvin or mixed with 6,8, 10 or even 12,000 kelvin, depending on how deep of water the corals are in. After 20 ft., the less the suns white spectrum rays penetrate the water, from white/red, to blue then darkness. That's why the very deep water fish & animals are called, "bio luminescence", as natural light does not down that far so they produce their own "luminescence" light, to communicate and ward off predators. Anyway, I prefer fluorescents and I'm using VHO (very high output) 50/50 spectrum and actinic (blue) over my tank 75 gal. tank with 440 total watts. I have a electronic light controller that I have set up to start at 6:00 am at 10%, grows in intensity through out the morning and reaching 100% at noon. The cycle reverses, starting at 7:00 pm and off at 11:00 pm. I have a combination of tide pool and low water true reef building stony corals, near the top (white/red spectrum) and deeper water 7,500 kelvin corals at the bottom, with great success.

So, that's why some fluorescents and incandescent bulbs range from piss yella to bright white and blue. Sorry, I could talk reefs all day but, that's my lesson, for today, lol,..... on light spectrum, and for choosing what kelvin to use for our garages. It's up to the beholder but, I would recomend from 5,000 to 6,500, for a better white light.
Thanks,
Kevin

 

[franksinatra]

Hey Chris, Any chance you could take a quick picture of your install? I want to hardwire because my lights arent going to move. I will buy more if additional light is needed. Thanks, G

 

[Chris Adams]

Hey Chris, Any chance you could take a quick picture of your install? I want to hardwire because my lights arent going to move. I will buy more if additional light is needed. Thanks, G

Quick pics this morning;

 

[franksinatra]

That looks like a great idea. Mine unfortunately has been sheetrocked so thats not an option for me. I picked up a couple of the wally world lights and ended up returning them this afternoon. I really want something to mount flush with the ceiling and I didnt care for the idea of having the lights hang any lower than needed. If hanging lights will work for someone, I cant see any reason why they wouldnt go this route.
On a seperate note. I stopped over to HD to look again at the light options and noticed the 2 bulb T5 4 ft fixtures that come with bulbs for around 36.00 The wally world lights with bulbs were going to end up around 18-20.00 with lights so an additional cost of 100.00 for 6 T5 lights sounds like another option at a fairly reasonable cost. Anyone have any experience with these fixtures? Sorry for the thread jack here just trying to help figure out the best options for the on going "whats the best light for my shop" question. Thanks, G

 

[427HISS]

I see that Menard's has "American Fluorescent" for $9.99 this week !

 

[fordcragar]

Wow, I was going to ask a question regarding fluorescent light fixtures as see that you guys have had the same problems with your lights I've had for the last 25 years. I'm getting tired of replacing fixtures because one of the bulbs doesn't work and thought maybe someone have a recommendation for something that might work.

I have a neighbor that put compact fluorescent bulbs in his garage, and he likes them; so I did a search here and they didn't get the same recommendation.

Anyway I have 10 fixtures that need to be replaced, so maybe I'll go on a scavenger hunt tomorrow and see what happens. I thought if I stepped up and bought some better fixtures the problem would go away; but it appears like it might not.

Can't you buy anything anymore that works?

I've always hung them on chains, at least that way they are easy to change.

 

[Cryptic1911]

chris does walmart still sell these lights? i dont see them on there web site. i havent went to my local store yet.

yes, they do.. they are $9.82. I just was there looking for some after reading this post earlier, and they only had 1 in store.. just so happens that someone we know is a manager there and was in the next aisle. We asked if we could order 30 of them and pick em up, and she just punched in a few numbers on her wireless scanner thing and said sure, I just ordered 30, should be in by Friday.



Thanks for the info, Chris!

 

[FastEddieG]

Does anyone have a sku or something I could call with to check stock status at my local Wally Worlds?

Thanks in advance,
-Ed

 

[Cryptic1911]

I don't have the SKU, but I have the Item# at home

 

[FastEddieG]

I don't have the SKU, but I have the Item# at home

If you or anyone else could take a minute when you have the time and info, to provide the item # or sku, it'd be greatly appreciated!

-Ed

 

[notquitegto]

One idea I saw in another thread and I am using for these walmart lights is to cut 1/2" to 1" pieces of pvc to use a spacer and screw the lights to the ceiling joist or rafter. It will give the light the space to stay cool and you won't have a light swinging around everywhere.

Mike

 

[Cryptic1911]

If you or anyone else could take a minute when you have the time and info, to provide the item # or sku, it'd be greatly appreciated!

-Ed

I had someone at home get me the Item #1164918 it was $9.82 at my walmart, and I was told that its a warehouse item and that any manager can order them right on their handheld scanner thing.. They don't order them for you specifically, but they can order a quantity for the store

 

[FastEddieG]

I had someone at home get me the Item #1164918 it was $9.82 at my walmart, and I was told that its a warehouse item and that any manager can order them right on their handheld scanner thing.. They don't order them for you specifically, but they can order a quantity for the store

Thanks for the info, and for taking the time to relay it!
-Ed

 

[Cryptic1911]

Well, all my lights arrived at Walmart.. called and they said they had 33 in stock, so I went do to get them.. only problem is that since they don't technically order in your name, it just goes to store inventory, and most stores stock 6.. got there and they were buried in the warehouse on an overstock pallet. good thing we got there before the truck arrived because they were sending most of them back! LOL

The stock manager guy came out and said he would wait til the guys got the normal shelf stock pallets out tonight and that he would take them all and put them aside for us to pick up in the morning.

keeping my fingers crossed!

 

[Cryptic1911]

SUCCESS! one of the stock people from Walmart called at 7am and said they had them all on a flat cart for us back in the site-to-store area. Went in and rolled it up to the front and paid my $312 and loaded them in the car:

 

[FastEddieG]

Congrats That's a lot of light fixtures! I'm going to start off with 8, and I called around with the item # (thanks again) - looks like most around here have 2 in stock. It'll take me a few trips, I don't think it's worth asking a manager to order 4-6 extra for me.

Thanks again and looking forward to pics of them installed.
-Ed

 

[Chris Adams]

SUCCESS! one of the stock people from Walmart called at 7am and said they had them all on a flat cart for us back in the site-to-store area. Went in and rolled it up to the front and paid my $312 and loaded them in the car:

UM, WOW!

Thought I went hog wild with 13 in the ceiling.

You are going to be tired after going up and down that ladder maybe 100 trips...
Best of luck.
Please post on any defectives you find, if you would be so kind.

 

[FastEddieG]

Alright, 5 Wal-Marts and 3 hours later, and I have eight of them to light up my 29x21 garage, which should work great. Better than 2 incandescents at least

Thanks again guys,
-Ed

PS, anyone looking in the SW Chicago burbs, might want to wait until at least next weekend for them to restock

 

[Cryptic1911]

LOL, yeah I wanted it to be bright in there! I'll post up if I get any dead ones

I calculated it and it looks like it will be around 2.28w per square foot for lighting. that should be awesome for detailing / repair work.

 

[FastEddieG]

I calculated it and it looks like it will be around 2.28w per square foot for lighting. that should be awesome for detailing / repair work.

Interesting. Is w/sqft really a good way to calculate coverage? My 8 fixtures (16 bulbs) would put out 512 watts. I don't think I could get the same lighting with 5 100 watt incandescent bulbs. Wouldn't lumens or something else be more representative of the actual light coverage? I'll have 0.8 w/sqft in my garage would should be plenty for a hobbyist. I'll use a trouble light when more is needed.

I just ordered these T8 bulbs from 1000bulbs.com that some have strongly recommended. Love this forum!!

-Ed

 

[Cryptic1911]

Interesting. Is w/sqft really a good way to calculate coverage? My 8 fixtures (16 bulbs) would put out 512 watts. I don't think I could get the same lighting with 5 100 watt incandescent bulbs. Wouldn't lumens or something else be more representative of the actual light coverage? I'll have 0.8 w/sqft in my garage would should be plenty for a hobbyist. I'll use a trouble light when more is needed.

I just ordered these T8 bulbs from 1000bulbs.com that some have strongly recommended. Love this forum!!

-Ed

its not really accurate, but its a good quick baseline I guess. Lumens / Footcandles is really the way to calculate it, but I havent figured out how to use that visual lighting software very well. It looks like an average of ~120fc/sf, but that's just with a quick layout that isnt exactly how mine will be. If I just add up the total lumens from the bulbs and divide by square footage, it ends up being like 220 lumens per square foot