I've had better weekends

[soapii]

Late Friday night I was finishing up a project by drilling a hole through the drywall for an anchor and went right into the gas main. Probably the worst “oh $hit” moment of my life. Needless to say I had an impromptu project Saturday morning.

In hindsight I think the builder was wrong to run poly line that high up the wall before converting to black pipe. I didn’t check our building code yet but this very mistake is why you shouldn’t run poly behind drywall…..always use black pipe.

--Joe

 

[wren57]

At least you caught the error quickly and are fixing it.

I'd also be concerned about the electric box being so close to the poly gas line. That's a recipe for a very bad time if the box catches fire for whatever reason.

 

[Zeke]

Concealed plastic gas pipe, that's ridiculous.

 

[CoogarXR]

Man, I couldn't drill a pipe that dead-center if I tried

Good thing you didn't have a stogie dangling from your lip at the time...

 

[tomroblee]

Fire is the main reason why plastic pipe is not allowed for above ground use.

 

[n20junkie]

It was my understanding that the metallic section started with the riser and continued above ground with metallic pipe.

One time I drilled dead center into a boiler line. The sad part is that I knew it was there, and had a lapse in remembering just long enough.

It was a perfect dead center hit. I wondered why water was coming out of my screw. That was a mother F'r to fix too.

 

[forAK]

Man, I couldn't drill a pipe that dead-center if I tried

LOL! A lotto ticket would be on my list!

 

[tcianci]

At first I thought it was Track Pipe or Wardflex which is a plastic jacketed stainless gas pipe. I have never before seen poly gas line. If I wasn't so dumb I could learn something new every day!

 

[sms1974]

I'm sad to tell you your repair is just as dangerous as before...

I'd be calling up the builder and having his a$$ for lunch... plastic is not allowed to be exposed, even out of the ground it has to have a riser on it... no way in hell that passed any kind of inspection. gas company will shut off your supply in a heart beat over that no questions asked... That's extremely dangerous!!!

 

[ndm]

Late Friday night I was finishing up a project by drilling a hole through the drywall for an anchor and went right into the gas main. Probably the worst “oh $hit” moment of my life.

Dont worry about it. In 2011 I drilled a hole into the rear (other side of the wall) of a breaker panel on the night before the walk through of new command post we built in Kabul, Afghanistan. It liquefied the drill bit and killed power to the whole building.

Fortunately for me, there was a guy on my crew that was able to fix it very quickly and simply since I hit just the right spot where it only caused temporary damage. I almost pee-peed a little when it happened originally.

 

[soapii]

I'm sad to tell you your repair is just as dangerous as before...

I'd be calling up the builder and having his a$$ for lunch... plastic is not allowed to be exposed, even out of the ground it has to have a riser on it... no way in hell that passed any kind of inspection. gas company will shut off your supply in a heart beat over that no questions asked... That's extremely dangerous!!!

Actually it did pass inspection. I'm not calling the builder, I already fixed it. Gas company was already at the house, they said the poly shouldn't have been there but ran their sniff test and left. Told me I shut stuff off correctly and could start fixing the issue.

--Joe

 

[flat350]

Even Wardflex is required to be covered with a spiral wound metallic covering if it's run vertically through a stud bay with protective shoes at the top and bottom plate.

 

[jd_1138]

Houses should be forced to come with a master book showing where gas and water lines are in the walls. As part of the building code.

 

[CTyankee]

Don't think that would fly in my neck of the woods...

 

[bmrisko]

Houses should be forced to come with a master book showing where gas and water lines are in the walls. As part of the building code.

When we built our house, I took pictures of every wall before it was sheet-rocked, as well as the locations of plumbing in the raised slab before they filled it with concrete...knowing locations of electrical, plumbing and gas has been invaluable when we had a few minor issues. Hopefully I can get it made into a book and pass it on to the new owner if we ever sell the house.

 

[mbatarga]

I'd be tempted to put a plastic plumbers access panel right there at the floor where that junction is located.

 

[lowbucktruck]

I'd be tempted to put a plastic plumbers access panel right there at the floor where that junction is located.

That's a really good idea. And relocating the electrical junction box, if possible.

 

[Mickey O]

Never happened, must be photoshopped. A building inspector wouldn't allow that and would have caught it.


Funny thing is when I get a permit and the inspector comes out he/she is a nitpicker but I see all types of code violations in my house that the inspectors never caught when the place was built. And not just little things like a emt clamp with in so many inches of the box, etc. but violations that are hazardous to people and the house and costly to repair.

 

[ishiboo]

I have CSST in my wall for two floors. Makes me wonder.

I've seen a lot of poly gas pipe, but never inside anything!

 

[egdede]

At first I thought it was Track Pipe or Wardflex which is a plastic jacketed stainless gas pipe. I have never before seen poly gas line. If I wasn't so dumb I could learn something new every day!

When my 50 year old metal pipe started leaking about a year ago, they just pulled this stuff through it. It was the first time I ever saw it. [COLOR="black" I can run my stove, dryer, furnace and water heater at the same time (apparently without trouble).

 

[coljar]

Several years ago, I hooked the neighbors poly gas line with the hoe and ripped a hole in it. If I hadn't seen the yellow, I would have ripped the meter and all. OUPS came out beforehand and marked everything, but they were off by 6 feet and the line was looped way over on my property. I was prepared with a gas valve wrench in the hoe and a buddy that works for the gas company that covers my area.

 

[GMCGarage]

I'm sad to tell you your repair is just as dangerous as before...

Whats wrong with his repair?

 

[sms1974]

Whats wrong with his repair?

Actually it did pass inspection. I'm not calling the builder, I already fixed it. Gas company was already at the house, they said the poly shouldn't have been there but ran their sniff test and left. Told me I shut stuff off correctly and could start fixing the issue.

--Joe

That would never pass an inspection in Ohio... I've been in the heating industry my entire life and I've seen **** pass inspection that shouldn't have but there's no way that would pass here.....

quoted from the international gas code book:
403.6 Plastic pipe, tubing and fittings. Plastic pipe, tubing and
fittings shall be used outside, underground, only, and shall conform
to ASTM D 2513. Pipe shall be marked “gas” and “ASTM D
2513.”



2.5
INSTALLATION
2.5.1 General
(a)
The maximum allowable operating pressure of plastic
pipe for service lines is limited to: 60 psig for
medium-density (yellow PE-2406), and 99 psig for high-density (black PE-3408).
(b)
Plastic pipe above grade is prohibited except that which may terminate aboveground in an approved riser or installed with an approved wall head adapter in the basement.

 

[GMCGarage]

I'm sad to tell you your repair is just as dangerous as before...

Why is the repair just as dangerous as before? It appears he replaced it with black iron pipe.

 

[soapii]

Unless sms1974 is referring to the bottom 3-4" that is still poly?

I put a 12" tall steel plate between the studs at the bottom of the wall to prevent a future issue with that small piece of poly.

--Joe

 

[GMCGarage]

Unless sms1974 is referring to the bottom 3-4" that is still poly?

I put a 12" tall steel plate between the studs at the bottom of the wall to prevent a future issue with that small piece of poly.

--Joe

Not a bad Idea, or fill it with grout, and a sticker on the outside of the wall!

 

[sms1974]

Why is the repair just as dangerous as before? It appears he replaced it with black iron pipe.

Unless sms1974 is referring to the bottom 3-4" that is still poly?

I put a 12" tall steel plate between the studs at the bottom of the wall to prevent a future issue with that small piece of poly.

--Joe

I'm not saying that your repair won't work, I'm saying it's not safe... Nor am I going to argue about it passing an inspection or not, in my area there's no way that would pass any inspection. In fact I've seen similar things done that Columbia Gas has shut off at the street for doing. one time I got called to a kitchen addition where they ran plastic through a concrete slab and up in to a center island for a cook top. I refused to make connections at the cook top or where it exited the slab outside above grade 10' from the gas meter. Well the home owner decided to do it him self with help from the local Home Depot... About 6 months later the place burned to the ground. Story i was told was the owner almost died when he lit the cook top and the cabinet underneath exploded because there was a leak in the connections... Yes you can have a leak in steel pipe too but plastic and compression fittings are a recipe for disaster. Even the Risers they require when connecting to plastic outside don't rely on compression for a seal anymore. Plane and simple no plastic inside a structure...


quoted from the international gas code book:
403.6 Plastic pipe, tubing and fittings. Plastic pipe, tubing and fittings shall be used outside, underground, only, and shall conform
to ASTM D 2513. Pipe shall be marked “gas” and “ASTM D
2513.”

 

[GMCGarage]

quoted from the international gas code book:
403.6 Plastic pipe, tubing and fittings. Plastic pipe, tubing and fittings shall be used outside, underground, only, and shall conform
to ASTM D 2513. Pipe shall be marked “gas” and “ASTM D
2513.”

That would never pass an inspection in Ohio... I've been in the heating industry my entire life and I've seen **** pass inspection that shouldn't have but there's no way that would pass here.....

quoted from the international gas code book:
403.6 Plastic pipe, tubing and fittings. Plastic pipe, tubing and
fittings shall be used outside, underground, only, and shall conform
to ASTM D 2513. Pipe shall be marked “gas” and “ASTM D
2513.”



2.5
INSTALLATION
2.5.1 General
(a)
The maximum allowable operating pressure of plastic
pipe for service lines is limited to: 60 psig for
medium-density (yellow PE-2406), and 99 psig for high-density (black PE-3408).
(b)
Plastic pipe above grade is prohibited except that which may terminate aboveground in an approved riser or installed with an approved wall head adapter in the basement.

Im lost. So it can be used under ground, and can be used above grade if it terminates in an approved riser. Hard to say from the pictures if the plastic has an approved riser, but seems to be ok per the gas company.

Is the code saying it should terminate outside, and then steel into the building, or plastic inside a ridgid conduit to the inside?

I would say his repair is less dangerous

As mentioned above, a steel plate, or access panel at the plastic/steel gas pipe joint would stop and future drilling into the plastic.

 

[soapii]

There is no riser. Poly was run underground from the meter on the house to the detached garage. It comes into the garage up through the concrete slab and bottom plate of the wall.

--Joe

 

[openwheelracing88]

scratching my head, right next to the power panel.

This is exactly why I steered away from my power panel. I knew there was a lot going on behind the drywall.

 

[sms1974]

A riser is 3'long and extends 2' below grade, the plastic pipe is concealed and protected inside the riser. A wall head adapter is used when you push plastic through an old steel gas line to repair a leaking steel line. again the plastic is concealed and protected by the steel line. bottom line is you can not have plastic exposed inside a structure...

 

[sms1974]

There is no riser. Poly was run underground from the meter on the house to the detached garage. It comes into the garage up through the concrete slab and bottom plate of the wall.

--Joe

And I'll bet there is a riser on it where it comes out of the ground and goes to the meter...

 

[sms1974]

The proper way to fix this is to dig up the side of the building where the line comes in and bring it up in a riser on the outside. Then you transition to steel before bringing it in through the wall. You would probable have to extend your plastic line a few feet after cutting it at the foundation.

 

[GMCGarage]

Well, the gas company and the OP seem satisfied, and a few precautions for future owners will ensure it does not happen again!

 

[soapii]

And I'll bet there is a riser on it where it comes out of the ground and goes to the meter...

Nope, poly right off the meter. You can see about 12" of yellow poly above grade.

--Joe

 

[lakeroadster]

Well Joe, interesting thread, thanks for sharing. We all learn a lot from these "adventures".

Oh, and kudos to you on your aim... that's impressive.

 

[sms1974]

Nope, poly right off the meter. You can see about 12" of yellow poly above grade.

--Joe

I would have had to be there when it was inspected to believe it passed any kind of inspection.... Plastic gas line is not UV rated meaning it will deteriorate if exposed to sun light... wait till someone hits that line a few times with a weed wacker after years of being in the sun...

 

[rattle_snake]

Perfectly placed if you ask me.
I did similar to A/C line. Was using a stud finder (aka pipe finder) to install a chair rail in my soon-to-be kids room. Nail gun stuck one though copper pipe perfectly on center. Was Friday before labor day weekend so no fix till Monday, was over 100 in the house so we slept in our camper parked in the back yard. Good times!

 

[sms1974]

Out of curiosity I pulled Michigan's gas code....


§192.321 Installation of plastic pipe.

(a) Plastic pipe must be installed below ground level except as provided by paragraphs (g) and (h) of this section.
(b) Plastic pipe that is installed in a vault or any other below grade enclosure must be completely encased in gas-tight metal pipe and fittings that are adequately protected from corrosion.
(c) Plastic pipe must be installed so as to minimize shear or tensile stresses.
(d) Thermoplastic pipe that is not encased must have a minimum wall thickness of 0.090 inch (2.29 millimeters), except that pipe with an outside diameter of 0.875 inch (22.3 millimeters) or less may have a minimum wall thickness of 0.062 inch (1.58 millimeters).
(e) Plastic pipe that is not encased must have an electrically conducting wire or other means of locating the pipe while it is underground. Tracer wire may not be wrapped around the pipe and contact with the pipe must be minimized but is not prohibited. Tracer wire or other metallic elements installed for pipe locating purposes must be resistant to corrosion damage, either by use of coated copper wire or by other means.
(f) Plastic pipe that is being encased must be inserted into the casing pipe in a manner that will protect the plastic. The leading end of the plastic must be closed before insertion.
(g) Uncased plastic pipe may be temporarily installed above ground level under the following conditions:
(1) The operator must be able to demonstrate that the cumulative aboveground exposure of the pipe does not exceed the manufacturer's recommended maximum period of exposure or 2 years, whichever is less.

How long has that plastic to the gas meter been sticking out of the ground?

(2) The pipe either is located where damage by external forces is unlikely or is otherwise protected against such damage. Insert picture of hole drilled in pipe...
(3) The pipe adequately resists exposure to ultraviolet light and high and low temperatures. Again, It's exposed at the meter
(h) Plastic pipe may be installed on bridges provided that it is:
(1) Installed with protection from mechanical damage, such as installation in a metallic casing;
(2) Protected from ultraviolet radiation; and
(3) Not allowed to exceed the pipe temperature limits specified in §192.123

If it passed an inspection its on that inspector... I realize your view and my view on this is from a different perspective. To me all of this has to be up to code and pass inspection, I'm a contractor and if something bad happens it falls on me and I'm legally liable for injury's and damage's.... worst possible for you as the home owner is something bad happens to some one you love or at best case you have to tear out drywall when it leaks... personally I would tear it out and replace the line from the meter to the side of the garage and use the proper risers, yes it would be at some expense and a pain in the *** but I've learned that you can't put a price on safety and sometimes you only get one chance...

 

[soapii]

We built the house 4 years ago. I appreciate all your information, gives me something to think about.

--Joe