J.H. Williams Midget Wrenches

[Goldenglove789]

I just bought a nearly complete set of J.H. Williams tools from the 40's or 50's. Set is NM-8. It's got everything but the wrenches. I found the old tool catalog that has a list of the wrenches that should have come with the set but I'm wondering if anyone knows which specific style of wrenches I should be looking for? The links below are the catalog I found as well as the alloy artifacts page I found. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

http://alloy-artifacts.org/williams-supercompany-p2.html#super-ignition

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I'm wondering if anyone knows which specific style of wrenches I should be looking for? The links below are the catalog I found as well as the alloy artifacts page I found. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

The 11XX series were double open end (DOE) and double box end (DBE) ignition wrenches.

The DOEs were 15* angle x 75* angle configuration, both ends having the same milled opening. The NM-8 set included every wrench between 3/16" (1112) and 1/2" (1132). The sizes are all listed on the catalog page you referenced. Look up examples by the model numbers in AA.

They were marked with a < W > on one head, with the model number (e.g., 1112) on the other head, and THE "SUPERRENCH" on the shank. On the flip side, the size will be marked on the head, and 'ALLOY' on the shank. If it's marked 'CHROME MOLYBDENUM' or 'CHROME ALLOY', it's too early for your set (late 1930's, 1940, and 1941). If it's marked 'ALLOY' with a 'V' but it's not chrome plated (shiny), but dark natural steel instead, it's also too early. Those wrenches would go in the pre-war or wartime version of the post-war NM-8 (set No. 1292PR). You want chrome-plated tools for the NM-8.

NM-8 also had four (4) DBE wrenches, 1150 through 1153. These were 45* double offsets with a different 6-point box opening on each end. The sizes are listed on the catalog page you referenced. The < W >, "SUPERRENCH", and ALLOY will be on the shank, and the sizes will flank the model number on the flip side shank. Same as above. Chrome-plated. If it's ALLOY and not chrome-pated, it went in the pre-war or wartime set.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Here are a few examples of the type of DOE ignition wrenches you're looking for. But I don't collect post-war tools, so you want yours to be plated, like the one on the bottom, but be marked 'ALLOY' like the one on top. I hope that's not confusing. I just don't have any chrome-plated 'ALLOY' Superrenches.

 

[chopper1]

The Private gave you a good explanation. The catalog sheet gives you the numbers of the wrenches that were included. 1112-1132, 15° x 75° ignition wrenches shown on AA, and 1150-1153 mid length box wrenches.

 

[Goldenglove789]

I appreciate all the replies. I bought this set of 4 wrenches off eBay. Based on what y'all said I don't think I bought the correct ones. Do y'all know if the v near the neck of the bottom two wrences makes a difference?

 

[Goldenglove789]

Here's the other picture.

 

[Goldenglove789]

****,

I'm sorry for the dumb question about the v near the head. Private thanks for the in depth response. Looks like I'm looking for a needle in a haystack kind of set based on what y'all said.

 

[Goldenglove789]

What if it's got a II on the neck?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The wrenches you bought off eBay do not appear to be chrome-plated. They appear to have a natural steel finish. They are very nice examples of the type of 11xx "Superrenches" you need, and in some of the sizes you need, but the CHROME-ALLOY marked wrench dates to 1941-early 1942, and the ALLOY wrenches date to 1942-1945. The wrench in your hand (or someone's hand) is what you want in all of the wrenches you need. ALLOY, but chrome-plated. If your set is an NM-8, it dates to 1947-1950's. The pieces would be chrome-plated. (Are they chrome-plated? Maybe you should post a photo of the box and pieces you have.) Shiny. Not dull.

EDIT: I wouldn't be overly concerned with the forge markings (e.g., "V", "II", etc). Except for the fact that wartime wrenches almost always seem to have a "V", nobody really has a definitive explanation for what they mean. Look for chrome-plated ALLOY in the size you need and they should match the pieces in your set.

 

[Goldenglove789]

The ones I bought are definitely not chrome plated. I looked and the guy sold the exact ignition wrenches I need about a week before he sold this set. I'll post some pictures when I lay eyes on it. It hasn't even arrived yet.

 

[Jim C.]

It's a little hard to see the catalog page posted above, so I'm not sure which midget wrenches you're looking for. Anyway, here's the Williams midget set of four DBE deep offset wrenches.

Jim C.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I looked and the guy sold the exact ignition wrenches I need about a week before he sold this set. I'll post some pictures when I lay eyes on it. It hasn't even arrived yet.

He obviously didn't know his own tools. Or he thought he could get more selling the wrenches and the socket stuff separately. No worries. These are not needles in haystacks tools. They periodically show up at flea markets, garage sales, and online. You could even try posting a Wanted To Buy ad in the classifieds below this forum. It may require some patience, but you will complete the set.

 

[Goldenglove789]

I'm looking for midget box wrench and midget wrench. Good looking set of offset wrenches you have though.

 

[Goldenglove789]

He obviously didn't know his own tools. Or he thought he could get more selling the wrenches and the socket stuff separately. No worries. These are not needles in haystacks tools. They periodically show up at flea markets, garage sales, and online. You could even try posting a Wanted To Buy ad in the classifieds below this forum. It may require some patience, but you will complete the set.

I'm thinking the later. I'm glad to know they're still out there. Do you know what a decent price is to pay for the entire set of midget wrenches are? Not the box wrenches but the first wrenches the catalog mentions.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I'm looking for midget box wrench and midget wrench. Good looking set of offset wrenches you have though.

Goldenglove - my advice to you is to slow down. To read everything more closely, and to understand these tools and your set better before you say or do anything else. If you go back to my first post, you'll see that I said you need 6-point double box end double offset wrenches, 1150 through 1153, just like the wrenches Jim C. showed you. I believe his are slightly later into the 50's than the immediate post-war era, but that may actually be more appropriate for your other pieces, which we have not yet seen. (Williams made the NM-8 from 1947 well into the 50's.)

Do you know what a decent price is to pay for the entire set of midget wrenches are? Not the box wrenches but the first wrenches the catalog mentions.

It all depends on source. They'll be cheaper in the wild (fleas, garage sales, etc) than fleaBay. They'll be cheaper in onesy-twosies ($1 per at a flea, ~$5 per on fleaBay) than a set. A complete set online could run into some money.

 

[Goldenglove789]

Yeah $5 per wrench would rack up to more than I paid for the entire box. Private I'll send you some pictures when I get the box in. Anybody interested in some ww2 wrenches?

 

[Goldenglove789]

I didn't see where anyone had offset wrenches in their nm set. Are you sure those offset wrenches are part of that set?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I didn't see where anyone had offset wrenches in their nm set. Are you sure those offset wrenches are part of that set?

I can't speak for what "anyone" else has in their NM- sets, but I am sure that page 5 in Williams Catalog No. 401 specifies models 1150 through 1153 for the NM-8, and page 23 of the same catalog shows and describes models 1150 through 1153 as 45* double offset pattern ALLOY steel DBE wrenches, as I explained above. The pre-war and wartime sets, which had different model numbers, had the same wrenches.

 

[chopper1]

I didn't see where anyone had offset wrenches in their nm set. Are you sure those offset wrenches are part of that set?

Here's a screen shot of the NM-8 set from the 401 catalog. shows the offset DBE's

 

[Goldenglove789]

Hey Jim C- how much you want for those offset wrenches?

 

[Goldenglove789]

I stand corrected. I'll heed your advice. Anyone got a wrench they want to sell?

 

[Goldenglove789]

Well it came in ahead of schedule. All was well......until I played with NM-110. The ball popped out and flew across the room. Luckily I found it! Set looks like it was hardly ever used. Those wrenches are the wrong ones for this set but I'm keeping them in there for now.

 

[Goldenglove789]

Here's some pictures of the ball I'm talking about

 

[Goldenglove789]

Here's another picture.