I’m looking at converting, my noisy chain drive openers on the house garage doors, to lift master jack shaft openers. My question is about security. With the chain drives, the dog leg gets pushed vertical to lock the door from being able to be pried up. It seems with the jack shaft, that extra measure of security is lost, as now it’s just the weight of the door providing the security. Am I correct?
Jack shaft opener question
- Thread starter Cemeyer
- Start date
justsam
Well-known member
There is an electromagnetic deadbolt that secures the door. Where are you located? If in California and install is after July you must have battery back up. (SB 969)
HotrodHR
Well-known member
Better security than traditional garage opener in my opinion. Dead bolts engage when door shuts... I have a Liftmaster on my shop door. Battery backup available... or just open walkout door and unlock manually during black outs...
finn
Well-known member
No problem with my liftmaster jackshaft opener and it’s probably ten years old.
I’m not sure that some, but not all, of the problems aren’t operator error. My wife has left the door open upon driving away numerous times. She swears she always closes the door, but I witnessed her driving off at least once. Door started down but reversed as she drove off...a leaf triggered the safety beam.
I’m not sure that some, but not all, of the problems aren’t operator error. My wife has left the door open upon driving away numerous times. She swears she always closes the door, but I witnessed her driving off at least once. Door started down but reversed as she drove off...a leaf triggered the safety beam.
curiousB
Well-known member
I put a jack shaft in a couple years ago. Thought I needed it to get ceiling height for a lift I was getting.
I generally don’t like it. It is considerably slower than my conventional opener in the other door.
They can be fussy to set up. I had to modify horizontal runs to tilting downward to help the opener in the closing cycle. They also make springs which load up to push the door (for the first 6-12” of travel) as an alternative. All of this I learned after the fact.
They are plenty safe. They have an electromechanical deadbolt in the track to prevent prying the door open.
The wireless room light was also unreliable. Sometimes would stay on all night. Eventually tossed it in the bin and put a motion sensor in for the garage lights.
The keypad has a clock and motion sensor which is nice but motion sensor was erratic in cold weather and without a button battery in it the clock was lost everything power drop out. Had to reset clock a few times a year.
So I would only get one if I absolutely needed every inch of ceiling height or if I had a high rise garage door configuration. Otherwise I’d stick with the traditional design used in 50M plus garages...
I used the liftmaster jackshaft 8500 series if that helps any.
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I generally don’t like it. It is considerably slower than my conventional opener in the other door.
They can be fussy to set up. I had to modify horizontal runs to tilting downward to help the opener in the closing cycle. They also make springs which load up to push the door (for the first 6-12” of travel) as an alternative. All of this I learned after the fact.
They are plenty safe. They have an electromechanical deadbolt in the track to prevent prying the door open.
The wireless room light was also unreliable. Sometimes would stay on all night. Eventually tossed it in the bin and put a motion sensor in for the garage lights.
The keypad has a clock and motion sensor which is nice but motion sensor was erratic in cold weather and without a button battery in it the clock was lost everything power drop out. Had to reset clock a few times a year.
So I would only get one if I absolutely needed every inch of ceiling height or if I had a high rise garage door configuration. Otherwise I’d stick with the traditional design used in 50M plus garages...
I used the liftmaster jackshaft 8500 series if that helps any.
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gnpenning
Well-known member
Definitely a problem with design that even liftmaster has acknowledge by replacing and extending the warranty of controllers. Just because one or two people have never seen a problem doesn't mean they don't exist. Issues are well documented.
If you do feel the need to go this way get the 8500w or one of the MJ models. It uses the same controller as 8555 trolley opener. It still shares many of the same components as the 8500 which had some other random issue left over from the 3800 that the normal homeowners may or may not experience.
If you don't have a high lift get pusher springs as well. Only tried and Tru way to keep from having a bird's-nest when closing. Not worth the risk.
If you do feel the need to go this way get the 8500w or one of the MJ models. It uses the same controller as 8555 trolley opener. It still shares many of the same components as the 8500 which had some other random issue left over from the 3800 that the normal homeowners may or may not experience.
If you don't have a high lift get pusher springs as well. Only tried and Tru way to keep from having a bird's-nest when closing. Not worth the risk.
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Fasthotrod
Well-known member
Agreed... my belt drive opener is way more quiet than the old chain drive.
My new chain drive opener for my 12x12 door was noisy as hell... added some Liftmaster vibration isolators and it's a lot more quiet now, for not much money. I'd recommend anyone try them first for the cost.
Mark
wildbill23c
Well-known member
The jackshaft openers were really for low headroom type situations where there wasn't enough clearance above the door and ceiling to allow installing a conventional opener. They are a bit slower to open and close, but just as safe as any other opener.
If noise is an issue rather than headroom, I'd really look towards a belt drive opener, they're pretty quiet when setup properly.
If noise is an issue rather than headroom, I'd really look towards a belt drive opener, they're pretty quiet when setup properly.
youwish2bme
Well-known member
I've had my three 8500's for 5 years now. The only problem that I've experienced is the wall controllers failing... They warranty replaced them immediately. I'm very please with the units
HITCH
HITCH
Innovate1
Well-known member
I am looking at 8' and 12' high doors with 14' high ceiling. Plans show jackshaft openers. Didn't think I had much choice except for the small door and that would place the rails and opener way below the ceiling. What are the other choices?
HotrodHR
Well-known member
If you're going with a 14 foot ceiling you obviously have plans for the overhead space. Whether it's for a lift, overhead storage, a mezinine or whatever, the jack shaft openers make sense. With 14' ceiling consider high lift tracks, you won't regret it.
As far as noise goes, mine is in my shop so it's not like I'm running it up and down while the wife or dogs are trying to sleep.
My door is a 10'x16' and it's nice not having the conventional door opener hanging down in the middle of my shop.
sennister
Well-known member
I am getting 6 of the 8500W openers. A lot of people mentioned some of the concerns. They are not perfect.
Here is a pretty good article from Liftmaster talking about the 3800 and some things that they have learned.
https://www.liftmaster.com/catalogr...ed/files/tucmanuals/isbgdo3800 door types.pdf
High lift tracks were mentioned as well as pusher springs or doing a slope to the track so it isn't completely horizontal when up. The problem with jack shaft openers in a sectional door is that they simply turn the torsion bar or jack shaft. If there isn't anything there to help get the door moving meaning the pusher springs or gravity, then you have an issue where the jackshaft turns, the door doesn't move and the cables unwind leaving you the birds nest that was mentioned above. Pusher springs at the end of the track help push the door down to get it moving for the first foot or so. The other things that help are the high lift track because the lowest section or two is always pretty much hanging so that gravity can help with getting the door moving.
As others mentioned the 8500W does come with an internal battery backup. So you can still get in when there is a power outage.
They have an electromagnetic dead bolt. So if someone tries to force the door open they will only be able to open it a couple inches depending on how it is installed.
There have been issues with the doors opening on their own randomly. Not everyone has this issue, it seems random, who knows why but I will say this much. All reports that have seen really point to the 8500. Not the 8500W and as mentioned above the 8500W has a different wall mounted switch. So maybe the issue is with what they are shipping with the base 8500. Some of the main differences between them is that the 8500W has wifi built in for the MyQ stuff where it is an optional addon for the 8500. The 8500W has an LED remote light and the wall mount control is different. Cost difference is about $100.
For my garage build I am going with high lift tracks if possible and add pusher springs if needed. Haven't gotten a solid number on ceiling height yet as it depends on where the slab comes in and matching with existing roof line as we are doing an attached garage. It should be about 10' at a minimum but more likely closer to 12' at a max. Depending on that ceiling height number will dictate 8' or 9' tall doors.
Here is a pretty good article from Liftmaster talking about the 3800 and some things that they have learned.
https://www.liftmaster.com/catalogr...ed/files/tucmanuals/isbgdo3800 door types.pdf
High lift tracks were mentioned as well as pusher springs or doing a slope to the track so it isn't completely horizontal when up. The problem with jack shaft openers in a sectional door is that they simply turn the torsion bar or jack shaft. If there isn't anything there to help get the door moving meaning the pusher springs or gravity, then you have an issue where the jackshaft turns, the door doesn't move and the cables unwind leaving you the birds nest that was mentioned above. Pusher springs at the end of the track help push the door down to get it moving for the first foot or so. The other things that help are the high lift track because the lowest section or two is always pretty much hanging so that gravity can help with getting the door moving.
As others mentioned the 8500W does come with an internal battery backup. So you can still get in when there is a power outage.
They have an electromagnetic dead bolt. So if someone tries to force the door open they will only be able to open it a couple inches depending on how it is installed.
There have been issues with the doors opening on their own randomly. Not everyone has this issue, it seems random, who knows why but I will say this much. All reports that have seen really point to the 8500. Not the 8500W and as mentioned above the 8500W has a different wall mounted switch. So maybe the issue is with what they are shipping with the base 8500. Some of the main differences between them is that the 8500W has wifi built in for the MyQ stuff where it is an optional addon for the 8500. The 8500W has an LED remote light and the wall mount control is different. Cost difference is about $100.
For my garage build I am going with high lift tracks if possible and add pusher springs if needed. Haven't gotten a solid number on ceiling height yet as it depends on where the slab comes in and matching with existing roof line as we are doing an attached garage. It should be about 10' at a minimum but more likely closer to 12' at a max. Depending on that ceiling height number will dictate 8' or 9' tall doors.
Perhaps a bit off topic, but I installed Sommer door operators a number of years ago. Mine are similar to these...https://www.sommer-usa.com/synoris.html
In the bay where I have a mid-rise lift, I installed the opener all the way over to one side with the arm connected at the corner of the door. (I can snap a couple pics if anyone needs/wants to see)
These openers, providing you have the coil spring and not the long springs...can be mounted to one side and still open the door straight. Placing the actual door operator to the one side removed the clearance problem above the lift.
These operators also work a bit differently as the trolley contains the motor and "drives" along the track as opposed to a chain or belt pulling. They are very quiet, too. The door makes more noise.
I don't know why these aren't more in widespread use...I'm been very pleased with mine
In the bay where I have a mid-rise lift, I installed the opener all the way over to one side with the arm connected at the corner of the door. (I can snap a couple pics if anyone needs/wants to see)
These openers, providing you have the coil spring and not the long springs...can be mounted to one side and still open the door straight. Placing the actual door operator to the one side removed the clearance problem above the lift.
These operators also work a bit differently as the trolley contains the motor and "drives" along the track as opposed to a chain or belt pulling. They are very quiet, too. The door makes more noise.
I don't know why these aren't more in widespread use...I'm been very pleased with mine
Latitude42
Member
I did see a couple YouTube vids of guys converting a normal door opener to jackshaft type... looked pretty interesting. Something I might try.
bradpac
Well-known member
I've been thinking of rigging up an electric motor, pull some solenoids and RF parts out of any regular type opener. 5hp 3000rpm motor should get that door up pretty quick.
rust in the eye
Well-known member
I am very happy with my two Lift Master 8500s
I used them because 14' ceiling.
Quiet, swift(large tapered spools) and reliable so far(2yrs)
The motion sensor lights are a bit hinkey sometimes but my control pads which contain the sensors are mounted higher than most, perhaps the reason. I have plenty of other lighting so don't rely on these as my primary light source.
The internet connection and accessibility is nice. If this is a security concern it's easily disabled.
Regarding the "phantom" opening. The buttons on the remote controls are very sensitive. I often keep one in a coat pocket when working outside, the doors will operate at least once every time I do this. I've also driven off with the door open.
At least the app allows you to check door status remotely if you do forget. I think(?) there may also be a feature to alert of certain conditions which you can specify.
I used them because 14' ceiling.
Quiet, swift(large tapered spools) and reliable so far(2yrs)
The motion sensor lights are a bit hinkey sometimes but my control pads which contain the sensors are mounted higher than most, perhaps the reason. I have plenty of other lighting so don't rely on these as my primary light source.
The internet connection and accessibility is nice. If this is a security concern it's easily disabled.
Regarding the "phantom" opening. The buttons on the remote controls are very sensitive. I often keep one in a coat pocket when working outside, the doors will operate at least once every time I do this. I've also driven off with the door open.
At least the app allows you to check door status remotely if you do forget. I think(?) there may also be a feature to alert of certain conditions which you can specify.
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curiousB
Well-known member
bradpac
Well-known member
Ok, maybe a 2hp motor. Still though, if the main concerns are the electronics in the newer openers, use the electronics out of an old opener with a new motor. It's all the same, just on/off/reverse, don't need any of the modern wifi connected BS so someone can come hack your garage door.
One of these days I need to change my internet handle, worked great when I was a high school kid back in 1999, not as fitting for serious discussions on garage door openers... Serious discussions about garage door openers, makes a guy sound old.
I am running an old belt, 12 foot travel shortened to 8 foot, commercial opener
The radio was dead, but the wall button worked.
I was paid $10.00 to "Take it away."
I swapped a curbside logic board into it
(All the connectors and wire colors matched)
Now I had radio but no wall button working.
A radio hanging on the wall by the light switch solved that problem.
What I am saying is there are just too many to be had for little or nothing to bother with trying DIY.
The radio was dead, but the wall button worked.
I was paid $10.00 to "Take it away."
I swapped a curbside logic board into it
(All the connectors and wire colors matched)
Now I had radio but no wall button working.
A radio hanging on the wall by the light switch solved that problem.
What I am saying is there are just too many to be had for little or nothing to bother with trying DIY.
gnpenning
Well-known member
2 or 5 hp with high rpm, PLEASE video and post the first several opening and closings.
itsajeepthing
Member
I recently went from a belt drive to the Chamberlin residential jackshaft unit available at Home Depot. I've ran it for maybe 3 months now with zero issues and zero complaints. It's quieter than the belt drive for sure. My reason for the upgrade was a low ceiling height and not really about the noise.
curiousB
Well-known member
If you need more power it’s probably because the door springs are not adjusted properly. Even 300+ pound wooden doors should lift easily by a person.
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