Jeepskate's Joint

[Jeepskate]

Finally underway here in Northcentral/Northeast Ohio. We moved here about a year ago from the Chicago area just before the housing market went to hell and bought a nice house on a little over 5 acres of land. The problem? All that it had was a small 2-car attached garage and not even a shed. My wife & I each have a Durango, plus I have two Jeeps, two lawn tractors (one with plow the other with snowthrower), a couple of trailers and an assortment of tools and Jeep parts. Classic 10 pounds of **** in a 5 pound bag scenario. I wanted to buy a place that already had an outbuilding, but my wife fell in love with this place (it was the nicest one that we looked at) and agreed that if we got it, she owed me an outbuilding. Fast forward a year and a few headaches dealing with steel buildings and the associated foundation costs and some zoning issues (I have a 'flag' lot which has extra restrictive setbacks). I originally wanted to put the outbuilding next to the house, then picked out a spot on top of a hill, then picked out another spot and finally ended up about 40 feet further away from that spot due to the restrictions. Settled on a post frame building, 40x32x15. I drew up the plans (I work in IT, but when I was a kid I wanted to be an architect, so I have some drafting experience) and got my permits last Friday.

The 'flag' lot (red square marks where I wanted to build, blue square in second pic is where we're building):

The house:

Top of the hill in the distance where I wanted to put it when it couldn't go next to the house, clearing in the foreground is where we ended up building:

The builder broke ground on Tuesday morning, dug the postholes, had them inspected, and started setting footings & posts:

The remaining posts were set on Wednesday and the first two rows of girts were installed along with some PTL retaining boards to hide the #304 fill and help hold it in place since we're on a slope. They also started working on the fill:

The trusses should be set today and the fill and base should be finished tomorrow so that I can lay the pink board and PEX over the weekend and have the slab poured next week. The electrician will be out tomorrow to see what he needs to buy and should be installing the meter base & load center Tuesday or Wednesday, then I can call AEP to have the service run. Overhead doors have been in for almost 2 months now, so those will go in once the builder tells the door company that he's ready for them (9x9 and 16x12 insulated). Going with a steel roof and siding...roof will probably go on tomorrow or Tuesday and the south wall will have to go up then too for the electrician. Updates tonight after I get home.

 

[thetastelingers]

Looks good.
Can't wait to see the final.
Restrictions ****.
I wouldn't like it so far away.....im lazy.....

 

[rieferman]

really pretty setting. I'm confused a little though - in the aerial it looks like the building is far from that paved area that runs up into the flag pole, but then I think I see it in one of the build pics right near the building. Also, is that a road, or is that your "driveway"?

 

[Kevin54]

Very nice looking place!!! Just wait until that driveway is snowed shut this winter though. It looks like you are out where there is a little distance between neighbors, so I am surprised at the setback rules. But each place has different rules. For instance, where I am at (outskirts of town in the country) I could build a buildiing as large as I wanted but it had to be 10' off of the property line. In the town North of me where I lives, I could only build a building any size as long as it didn't take up more than 2/3 of the property, house included, BUT it could be built right on the property line @ 0.00" if I wanted. Hope the surveyors have a fine line paint marker

Rules ****, but they are there. Looking forward to seeing your build pics. Hopefully you'll have it insulated and heated before the dreadful white stuff starts to fly

 

[bluesman2a]

Good looking place. I hear you on the set-backs/restrictions...

I have the same flag type setup on a smaller scale (1.6Acres), with ZERO relation to the road and a detached shop already there, they said I couldn't add onto it because the shop was not "behind the rear wall of the house", so we had to do a breezeway and make it an "attached" garage.

Keep the pics coming, along with some pics of the Jeeps. Are you the same Jeepskate from Pirate?

 

[Jeepskate]

Looks good.
Can't wait to see the final.
Restrictions ****.
I wouldn't like it so far away.....im lazy.....

Thanks. I wasn't real happy about being so far away either. I'll have to put a shed up by the house to keep one of the lawn tractors in and hopefully I can beam a wireless signal from the house to get internet out there or I'm going to have to bury some CAT5.

 

[Jeepskate]

really pretty setting. I'm confused a little though - in the aerial it looks like the building is far from that paved area that runs up into the flag pole, but then I think I see it in one of the build pics right near the building. Also, is that a road, or is that your "driveway"?

Yeah, I just caught that. I moved the building about 30' up from the spot in the aerial to reduce the amount of fill and get further away from the hedgerow. There's actually underground drainage back there that runs out into a drainage creek that starts right at the edge of the woods so sometimes water from the surrounding slopes collects there until it seeps in or evaporates. That is my driveway.

 

[twostory]

They said I couldn't add onto it because the shop was not "behind the rear wall of the house", so we had to do a breezeway and make it an "attached" garage.

Bluesman,

I just got a variance to add on to my existing detached garage. The variance allows me to build 8 feet into the side yard. The rest of the new addition & existing detached garage are in the rear yard.

FWIW, the gwinnett variance board usually allows these type of variance if the request is reasonable, you show a hardship (i.e. too expensive or not possible to build in the rear yard, etc.) and your immediate neighbors all sign letters stating they have no objection.

 

[Jeepskate]

Very nice looking place!!! Just wait until that driveway is snowed shut this winter though.

Yeah, I was able to handle all but the very last large snow with my tractors. There was ice right before that one, so I couldn't get enough traction and had to have a plow truck come out (and he promptly ran off the edge of the driveway and got stuck so I had to go pull him out).

It looks like you are out where there is a little distance between neighbors, so I am surprised at the setback rules.

I was surprised too. Normally it's 75' front, 50' rear, 25' sides but because it's a flag lot, it's 75' all the way around (and the front isn't counted from the street). After the zoning inspector dropped that bomb on me, my wife and I grabbed the big tape measure and plot and walked out to the street and measured our way back which is what ruled out the first spot that I had picked out in that clearing. The next county over, anything goes.

Rules ****, but they are there. Looking forward to seeing your build pics. Hopefully you'll have it insulated and heated before the dreadful white stuff starts to fly

Yup. I could've tried for a variance, but I wanted to get this thing up before the snow hits. Moving the build site and switching buildings threw my budget off, but hopefully I can swing the insulation and the rest of the heating components before winter sets in. I'm right across the street from the Clear Fork Reservoir so I get some of that 'lake effect' type snow & freezing rain when it's clear everywhere else.

 

[Jeepskate]

Good looking place. I hear you on the set-backs/restrictions...

I have the same flag type setup on a smaller scale (1.6Acres), with ZERO relation to the road and a detached shop already there, they said I couldn't add onto it because the shop was not "behind the rear wall of the house", so we had to do a breezeway and make it an "attached" garage.

Keep the pics coming, along with some pics of the Jeeps. Are you the same Jeepskate from Pirate?

Always helps if you can find a loophole. I was tempted to turn it into an attached garage off of the existing garage and use the old garage space as shop space, but the concrete & brick work probably would've been a budget buster.

Yes, I'm the same Jeepskate from POR among other forums. Couple of Jeep pics:

 

[ddawg16]

Yes, I'm the same Jeepskate from POR among other forums. Couple of Jeep pics:

And Off-Road.com?

 

[Jeepskate]

And Off-Road.com?

Yup, that's me.

 

[Jeepskate]

No trusses today. They finished the girts and installed the headers for the trusses and for the 9' door, then concentrated on the fill since the aim is to have the base ready by the end of tomorrow. Menards was almost out of the pink board that I bought, fortunately the store near where I have to go in the morning to pickup some equipment for recycling has enough sheets and is holding it for me. I called Blue Ridge and they're overnighting a stapler and staples to me. Also picked up some more conduit, electrical boxes and the 200 amp panel while I was at Menards tonight.

 

[bluesman2a]

FWIW, the gwinnett variance board usually allows these type of variance if the request is reasonable, you show a hardship (i.e. too expensive or not possible to build in the rear yard, etc.) and your immediate neighbors all sign letters stating they have no objection.

Yeah, it's been a while, but they pulled some **** in the MIDDLE of my build and it was just more drama than it was worth at the time to pursue the variance. I think I have $500 in my "breezeway", and while it galls me, it was worth it to be DONE with it in short order. Plus it brought the existing structure (there when I bought the property) into compliance without me having to do any serious/expensive remediation.

Yes, I'm the same Jeepskate from POR among other forums. Couple of Jeep pics:

Nice CJ, I've always admired your tubework... clean. And it looks like you'll have an equally cool shop to work with in the near future.

 

[Jeepskate]

Nice CJ, I've always admired your tubework... clean. And it looks like you'll have an equally cool shop to work with in the near future.

Thanks. I can only take credit for some of the design work. My buddy Anders did all of the bending, fit-up & welding and made a few field changes to the design.

 

[Jeepskate]

Mixed bag for the rest of the past week:
I had to make a pickup with the company straight truck on Friday morning, so figured that'd make pickiing up the slab insulation easier. Stopped by Menards on Thursday night for a few items and swung by the customer service counter to make sure that I wouldn't have any issues on Friday. Well, they now only had 10 sheets of the HD EPS foam in stock. So, I had them check stock in the town where I'd be making the equipment pickup and they had enough to fill my order, so the manager faxed my receipt to them and instructed them to hold the order for me. The owner's son (he's the only one authorized to drive the truck) went with me (he's always up for avoiding work) and we dropped off the insulation at the house.

Then it hit the fan. The building is too close to the overhead power lines. I've got a call into the power company engineer and we'll see what the options are after he comes out to look things over...probably going to have to reroute the lines (iit's the run over to my transformer pole). So, I've got a battle pending with the builder now and my wife is out for blood, especially after the $1500 we lost on the steel building (he neglected to get a quote from the concrete guy before I committed and waited until after I'd turned in everything for the permit and the inspector called him looking for the foundation plans). The builder is in a bit of a pickle because he doesn't get his next payment until the trusses are set, so he's out of pocket at this point. He wanted to come out today to set the ones that will clear, but I told him that didn't make sense since we hadn't spoken to the power company yet (never mind that he can't drive the Gradall on top of the EPS & PEX...duh). We have no intention of paying to correct his screw up.

Concrete pour is scheduled for Wednesday, but I'm probably going to postpone that. I laid the vapor barrier and most of the EPS on Sunday, then Monday I cut strips of EPS to insulate the edges of the slab, made a spot for the future lift (removed a 4x12 section of the EPS), mounted a board for the heating manifolds on the rear wall, and started running the PEX. It rained most of the day, so I wasn't able to finish the job...I have one circuit complete by the lift area and about half of the second circuit by that area done. I may come home at lunch time and finish that circuit. The last 3 circuits will be easier since they're just straight runs back to front and I may be able to finish those Tuesday evening. We'll see. I'm going to call the concrete guy to make sure that the rain didn't create any problems...I'm not really trusting the builder at this point for anything more than the actual construction and it won't be his problem in a couple of years when my floor starts cracking because I've got an unstable base. Plus it's supposed to rain the rest of the week until Friday.

 

[bluesman2a]

UGHHHH, sorry to hear about your issues.
I know how you are feeling right now. Stuck in the middle of something, no clear resolution, waiting on other people... It *****, but we're here with you man... just breathe.

 

[jkrswld]

Looking good so far - hope these setbacks don't snowball too much more and become a horror story. Interesting lot layout - looks nice and private so you can be as loud and obnoxious as you want. As far as that driveway goes, what's your top speed on that so far ?

 

[Jeepskate]

The power company engineer came over at lunch time. He said it's the worst OHSA violation he's ever seen and that it's lucky that no one was killed. Power company requires a 10' easement with the line at the center and OHSA requires 12' clearance for *everything* including the workers, tools, equipment, etc. He told me that if the builder balks at paying to move the lines, he'll definitely be on the hook for multiple fines if I file a complaint. He's recommending dropping a pad transformer near the pole that my service is on then running new service to it underground and switching me over to that, then they'd pull the pole & transformer and give a rebate for those since they can re-use them. The builder can dig the trenches and run the conduit himself to save on those costs (engineer will give him the specs). I'll have the quote tomorrow, then it's sit down time with the builder.

Concrete guy said no problem on the pour, the weight of the concrete will push the water out from under the EPS.

 

[Jeepskate]

UGHHHH, sorry to hear about your issues.
I know how you are feeling right now. Stuck in the middle of something, no clear resolution, waiting on other people... It *****, but we're here with you man... just breathe.

This is the third time around with nonsense...first the zoning, then the steel building/concrete debacle, now this. I'm on simmer, but my wife is ready to take this guy's head off

Looking good so far - hope these setbacks don't snowball too much more and become a horror story. Interesting lot layout - looks nice and private so you can be as loud and obnoxious as you want. As far as that driveway goes, what's your top speed on that so far ?

Yeah, it's fast becoming a horror story. Very private lot...all that you see from the street is the driveway (well, now you can see the outbuilding). Sound travels (Mid-Ohio Race Course is across the reservoir from me and we can hear them running on the weekends), but it's the country so there's always farm equipment running, dirt bikes & quads, gun shots, etc. Top speed so far? I ran about 60 down it the other day...the Hemi Durango is up there before you even realize it.

 

[Jeepskate]

Spoke with the engineer this morning (the builder was starting to balk last night when I told him what was potentially on tap) and they're going to stick with overhead service and just sink another pole and reroute the lines...just shy of $2200. Planning to sit down with the builder this evening and let him know that that's coming out of his last payment.

 

[uparms]

""""I can lay the pink board and PEX over the weekend """"

You using PEX to heat the floor or for an air line system??

Are you are going to have to bundle/insulate that pole barn up real tight if you expect the PEX to heat the floor and air a little??

Just wondering. Looks great though, don't fret the new location, may be a hidden blessing.

Uparms

 

[Jeepskate]

""""I can lay the pink board and PEX over the weekend """"

You using PEX to heat the floor or for an air line system??

To heat the floor.

Are you are going to have to bundle/insulate that pole barn up real tight if you expect the PEX to heat the floor and air a little??

Yes, have to insulate it well in order to get good heat without having a ridiculous electric bill from the system running continuously to keep up with the heat loss. With all of the overages on this project, it won't be getting insulated & heated this year.

Just wondering. Looks great though, don't fret the new location, may be a hidden blessing.

Uparms

Thanks. I like the location for the most part from a visual standpoint, it's just not terribly convenient.

 

[Jeepskate]

Holy frijoles!!! 16 hours later and I am still fuming mad. The unbelievable nerve of this guy. He said he had a bunch of stuff to do but would be over late and would call about an hour before he expected to arrive. Well, about 6:00 I'm sitting at the kitchen table looking over my son's homework and my wife looks out the front window and says that the builder is down at the building. He's got his dump truck backed in with the trailer hitched up and is loading up some of the leftover gravel & fill and the front end loader. We figure he'll be back later, so my wife leaves me to watch dinner so that she can take a shower and a few minutes later I see him at the front door with paperwork rolled up in his hand. I let him in and comment that he was supposed to call first, we're in the middle of stuff and my wife wanted to be present. We sit down and he asks me if I had the number from AEP (I had typed up a little contract addendum for us to sign with the amount on it, so I flipped open the folder and told him the amount). He exclaims that he thought that's what it'd be (I suspect that he called AEP back and got the amount), unfurls the new quote (which once signed becomes a contract...up to this point I have not signed a contract with him since we changed things from the original quote) followed by an invoice where he has conveniently broken out that my bump from a 30x40 to a 32x40 cost $1544 (I suspected that he would try to pad and had purposely avoided telling him the AEP costs in advance). He then asks me to split the AEP costs with him. I tell him no, that I don't have any extra money left, and that this was his mistake and he's responsible for paying for it. He then informs me that *I* am the general contractor, I drew up the building & electrical plans (lighting & receptacle layout & service entrance diagram...absolutely nothing to do with where the overhead wires were located), so some of the fault is mine. About this time my wife stepped out of the shower and she heard my voice starting to boom (I normally talk fairly quietly, but when I get louder, my voice resonates and shakes the walls) and figured that I couldn't be talking to our son like that over homework and something must be going on. I'm remaining relatively calm at this point, but our son knows it's a brewin' and he bee-lines it upstairs and tells my wife that the builder is downstairs. I tell the builder that *he* is the contractor and is supposed to know these things since they're federal regulations and I hired him as an experienced, licensed professional to do the job. He then points to the invoice and goes through it line by line (leaving out the $500 'sales tax sale' that I got from the lumber yard) and says that he'll do the 30 to 32 bump for no charge and then I eat the remaining $642. I repeat that I have no additional money left and he starts trying to get me to sign the contract claiming that he's not making any money on it, just paying his guys (forgetting that we had a phone conversation after the last quote where we determined that he was making about $8410 in labor charges...deduct the $2200 for AEP and he's at $6210 and I know he's not paying his 3 laborers $2k apiece for 8 days or so of work). I refuse and tell him that I want time to look it over and go over everything with my wife since she had wanted to be part of this discussion.

My wife finally makes it downstairs and joins us and asks how it is going. The builder replies that he thinks he's put a fair offer on the table, then makes the mistake of repeating the notion that I share the blame. She launches into him which then leads back to the $1500 we lost on the steel building and takes us off track down that path and now we're all going at it. Finally I said "Look, I didn't want to go off on that subject, it's behind us, it's water under the bridge and we need to deal with this mess that we've got down here. I didn't want to go into jerk mode, but the bottom line is that you have a serious OSHA violation here and if it gets reported, you're going to get fined up the wazoo and be on OSHA's hit list. The cheapest, easiest solution for you here is to eat the cost to move the lines and let's get this building done." At that, he stopped and said "Alright...let's just get this thing done." I told him I'd look over the contract & invoice (yeah, I'm going to be up his wazoo again on how he padded this thing to try to cover his loss) and I handed him the addendum so he could sleep on it last night (addendum just says that all associated line move costs are his responsibility and come out of his last payment). This was the Cliff Notes version, more assinine stuff was said. I am *steamed* and didn't sleep well last night.

 

[cyclopsblown34]

Holy cow man! Just try to calm down somehow, the longer I sit the more I stew though. Hold your ground with the contractor and don't let him bamboozle you.

 

[bluesman2a]

Yep, been there, done that, got the T-shirt. I feel for you.

The best advice I can give is this: it's business. Keep the emotions out of it. Focus on what you want to accomplish and ask yourself what it's gonna take to get there. You also need to consider what do to fire the guy. You may not want to do it, but at some point if you aren't happy you should consider a different crew. You just need to decide what that point is for your project.

 

[Jeepskate]

Holy cow man! Just try to calm down somehow, the longer I sit the more I stew though. Hold your ground with the contractor and don't let him bamboozle you.

I'm definitely holding my ground. The sitting and stewing until the cost is finalized is what's got me worked up right now. He's supposed to stop by my job this afternoon (I gave him a spreadsheet printout this morning that I did last night of a corrected version of his invoice with some estimated numbers of what the extra 2 feet should've cost and offered him $775 instead of the $1544) to hopefully finalize the numbers & contract. The 2' extra was where things naturally fell with the metal roof & 4' on center trusses, so all he has is less than $100 for a few 16' 2x4's instead of 14's for the wall girts & roof purlins and a little more mesh for the floor, another $100 or so for 2 additional roof panels and 2 additional wall panels (and the $200 is in line with what he said on the phone when I brought up that the 32' made more sense than the 30' and cost was negligible), about $230 for the additional concrete, and a few bucks for labor. If he wants to push it, I'm going to demand copies of the receipts from the lumber yard and where ever he got the gravel & fill from...I'm sure he did some padding there too from day one that he wouldn't want me to see.

Yep, been there, done that, got the T-shirt. I feel for you.

The best advice I can give is this: it's business. Keep the emotions out of it. Focus on what you want to accomplish and ask yourself what it's gonna take to get there. You also need to consider what do to fire the guy. You may not want to do it, but at some point if you aren't happy you should consider a different crew. You just need to decide what that point is for your project.

I hear ya', man. That's definitely what I did this morning when I handed him the spreadsheet. I told him to take it with him and review it and get back to me and he started wanting to run through it line by line, so I was very brief and matter-of-fact with him and reminded him of the $200 phone call and pointed out a couple of his other glaring errors, shook his hand and sent him on his way. The AEP engineer was amazed...he stood there and tried to lie to that guy too about how close he had come to touching the wires when he sunk the rear posts. In the pics of the rear, you can plainly see the slope of the lot and how he backfilled against the skirt boards with the dirt he removed while grading. There's over 15' of post sticking out of the ground, 3' behind the skirt boards & another 3' in the ground...he tried to tell the guy that the posts were sitting at grade and he was nowehere near the lines. Of course none of that lying matters since the freakin' building is sitting on the easement right under the lines. I know he's not happy about the 2-6 week delay since he doesn't get anymore money from me until the trusses are set, so he's out of pocket until then. By all accounts (even the engineer was familiar with his work) his workmanship is top-notch, he's just lousy with all of the other aspects.

 

[Jeepskate]

Nothing to report from the builder. He forgot to take a copy of the quote with him, so I met him on the way home yesterday so that he could get the 'carbons' from it to review (uh, shouldn't you have reviewed it before you gave it to me?). I finished the second PEX circuit after dinner and the plan is to knock out the last three tomorrow (may start it this evening)...those are the 'easy' runs, the first two had to run around the area reserved for a lift whenever I can afford one now.

 

[Jeepskate]

Finished up the PEX circuits after dinner on Saturday. Sunday I installed the manifolds, connected the PEX to them, and pressurized the system...it's holding steady at 50 psi. I bought some more staples (can't believe I blew through 600 staples that fast) Sunday morning and went through another 150, then ran the edge insulation through the table saw at 45 degrees and put it back in place. No word from the builder yet, but I left a message that I was done and that he should lay the mesh and schedule the concrete pour. We'll see what happens with him tomorrow. I don't know if he's figuring that if he walks away, he's only out whatever he's paid his three guys for 3 1/2 days of work plus whatever his time is worth to him vs. the $2200 for moving the lines, or if he's just being unprofessional again. I know he wasn't happy about the 2-6 week wait for AEP to move the lines.

 

[Jeepskate]

Looks like we've got everything settled, concrete should be poured on Wednesday.

 

[Bevis]

so he isn't gonna bail out on you then...Great

 

[Jeepskate]

He probably thought about it, then figured I'd call OSHA if he did. Glad to have that behind me. Now it's just a matter of how long AEP takes to get the paperwork to me for the new easement so that they can get the job scheduled.

 

[Jeepskate]

Scooted home at lunch time and the concrete guys were troweling out the floor. They'll be back tomorrow to cut.

 

[Mr. Welsh]

Scooted home at lunch time and the concrete guys were troweling out the floor. They'll be back tomorrow to cut.

Did they miss concrete 101? Always stay late and cut the same day...

 

[kydiesel]

Did they miss concrete 101? Always stay late and cut the same day...

Yeah they should have cut it the same day right after they sealed it!! It helps prevent from chipping on the edge of the cut.

 

[truck]

Glad it is coming together.

Truck

 

[Jeepskate]

 

[autoxbrian]

Amazing!! Just read through the post, boy that manifold looks familiar! (just smaller). I am excited about fall/winter coming this year... Keep us posted on the building progress. I envy listening to Mid-Ohio all the time, although I get the sounds of the C130's doing touch & go's at Mansfield Lahm Airport here.

clicked, subscribed, good luck!

 

[Jeepskate]

Sent the notarized easement approval back to AEP yesterday morning, going to give the engineer a call today to see where we are in the pecking order and find out if the same crew that moves the lines can connect the service. If so, the builder will probably put the siding up on the side walls so that the electrician can get the meter base, etc ready.

 

[Jeepskate]

Amazing!! Just read through the post, boy that manifold looks familiar! (just smaller). I am excited about fall/winter coming this year... Keep us posted on the building progress. I envy listening to Mid-Ohio all the time, although I get the sounds of the C130's doing touch & go's at Mansfield Lahm Airport here.

clicked, subscribed, good luck!

Thanks...I'll definitely keep the thread updated as progress is made. The concrete guy said that I can put vehicles on the floor starting tomorrow, so I may move my CJ-7 and M100 trailer down there this weekend. We get the C130 fly-overs over here. I was out by you on Saturday picking up some 8' lights that I found on Craigslist...got 9 good units and 3 that are questionable plus bulbs for $145. Didn't realize I was going to be near you until I hopped off of 30 and started heading up 545.