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Jegs 4,000lb floor jack??

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2jz4me

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Pretty sure you would get the same quality at Harbor Freight. Im not saying its a bad jack but you could probably get a better price at your local HF.
 

zkling

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:+1: That is what I was thining. I'm far from a jack expert, but me has a feeling that is a rebaged and price inflated unit. :dunno: I'm sure Hiball will be along soon to sort this out. :beer:
 

fatfillup

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My question is the guy a pro or just a hobbyist? For a pro, it probably won't hold up for years. For a DIYer, it will most likely serve him well.


No wait a darn minute here. First you say a gift for a friend, then you talk about one for yourself:shocking:

Are you the friend in question?:lol_hitti
 

Hiball

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It's just another of the many rebranded imports, if you enjoy the color scheme buy it over the HF, my suggestion is buy from the closest and easiest place for warranty issues.
 
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Jeepster04

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I sure dont like shopping at HF. I dont even like buying air couplings there and theyre just $1! So you all really think a hf jack is as good as that one?

It would be a gift for a diy'er. I say i want to buy a light one since i know they cant lift/shouldnt lift heavy things.
 

Hiball

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I sure dont like shopping at HF. I dont even like buying air couplings there and theyre just $1! So you all really think a hf jack is as good as that one?

It would be a gift for a diy'er. I say i want to buy a light one since i know they cant lift/shouldnt lift heavy things.

I'm No expert on the Newer Import stuff, But I believe after viewing the Manuals they hail from the same supplier with subtle differences. I would like to be able to confirm what type of Main Ram seal it utilizes but Again, I mainly work on Domestic based Jacks. Hope this helps..

Jegs Scroll down to the Instructions to see the Manual.

Harbor Freight 68051

With all that said, There is probably literally 10 more of the Same jack sold under other Various names/color schemes, as I stated earlier the best policy to invest with the supplier that has the best warranty service for your area.
 
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EDGAR

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That same jack is sold by ARCAN, by AMERICAN FORGE & FOUNDRY better known as AFF, as well as HARBOR FREIGHT and NOS which is related to Arcan. The pump uses an o-ring sized 4.9mm x 25mm as shown in the AFF 208 2 ton aluminum jack service drawing shown in AFFJAXX.com (second picture). The service drawing is in Excel so I did not linked it here.:dunno:

Most aluminum jacks use only an o-ring as main seal. Below also see an OTC pump which uses two O-rings as main seals (sixth picture). Not necessarily the best seal to hold a lot of weight due to the little amount of o-ring area making contact with the cylinder; an u-cup would be much better.

But, oddly enough, Milwaukee jacks also use a thick o-ring as a main seal and these are very expensive and have been around for many years and the owners say good things about them. So, what is good for one jack is not good for others? I personally don't like O-rings only as the main seal, whether the jack is cheap or expensive.
 

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Hiball

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But, oddly enough, Milwaukee jacks also use a thick o-ring as a main seal and these are very expensive and have been around for many years and the owners say good things about them. So, what is good for one jack is not good for others? I personally don't like O-rings only as the main seal, whether the jack is cheap or expensive.

The Difference between the Milwaukee Model 20/40 and these Cheaper Aluminum jacks is that the Milwaukee uses there Oring/Backups in Rod applications versus using them as a Piston seal in either Gland form or with a Shell. I have nothing against Orings being used in Piston Heads, They have been utilized for years in cylinders etc.

Its been a day or two since Ive been inside one of those Cheap HF 1 1/2 ton jacks that used the Piston Head with 2 orings. Do they even use Backups? IRC I don't think they did, And IMO that's a lot to ask of a Oring to seal over that amount of stroke and Not distort/twist. I don't get too many Milwaukee jacks into the Shop, probably on a 40-1 basis when compared to your more common Walker designed jacks, Not sure if that's based off Geographical issues or more than likely they are/where outsold handily. I actually have a Model 20 in the Shop right not and while I would be hard pressed to recommend it over a New HW, It is impressive.. The tolerances are crazy close and the Rod surface on the Pump Pistons and Ram is a Mirror finish, Even with 15+ years on it. <-- Per the owner.
 
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EDGAR

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What helps the Milwaukee is that the o-ring is thick, about .25" cross section I believe. Most aluminum jacks use smaller section O-rings that wear faster and/or are of a lesser quality. Still, in theory, it would be possible for the Milwaukee o-ring to twist in its groove, even in a rod application. That it does not do it has to do precisely with the thickness and perhaps hardness of the o-ring. Also, the polished surface finish on the ram prevents the o-ring from twisting. In general use, and not specific to any particular pump, if a ram, or piston, surface becomes rough for whatever reason, like rust that was sanded and the ram was not polished afterwards, there is a high probability that the o-ring sealing the ram will twist. Now, the increased roughness may not be felt as being too much by a person running its finger over the ram, and in fact, the person may think that it is good enough, but the o-ring under pressure will sure feel that extra roughness and twist because of that.

On the other hand, an u-cup should not twist in its groove because of its shape; they are so much harder to twist. The Milwaukee o-ring could be replaced by an u-cup for rod application and it should work as good if not better than the o-ring.

It is true that many cylinders use O-rings as main seals, and have done so for many years, more so the lower priced cylinders. Just because they are used a lot does not mean that the O-rings are the better seal, it only means that the O-rings are cheap and work well enough and manufacturers can get away with using O-rings. But better quality cylinders usually use better seals. But usually the cylinders used commercially are repaired on a regular basis, so they operate with seals in better shape. Of course, there is always the cylinder that does not gets overhauled until it leaks like a sieve, but that is lack of a preventive maintenance policy.

Cylinders used by homeowners, on the other hand, are used for many years with the same seals and are only changed, reluctantly, when the cylinder does not works anymore or leaks like a sieve. And even then, some owners still want to use the old seals and only replace the worn one, even if they are over 10, 15 years old.

So, even though O-rings are used in many cylinders, because they work good enough, probably are cheaper to manufacture and the O-rings are cheap to replace, I still don't like its use as a main seal. For that application, an u-cup would be better but more expensive. When I see a cylinder or a jack pump using an o-ring as main seal, I think of that pump as being a lesser equipment. It is like a high performance sports car using bias ply tires; simply not good enough.
 
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Hiball

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What helps the Milwaukee is that the o-ring is thick, about .25" cross section I believe. Most aluminum jacks use smaller section O-rings that wear faster and/or are of a lesser quality. Still, in theory, it would be possible for the Milwaukee o-ring to twist in its groove, even in a rod application. That it does not do it has to do precisely with the thickness and perhaps hardness of the o-ring. Also, the polished surface finish on the ram prevents the o-ring from twisting. In general use, and not specific to any particular pump, if a ram, or piston, surface becomes rough for whatever reason, like rust that was sanded and the ram was not polished afterwards, there is a high probability that the o-ring sealing the ram will twist. Now, the increased roughness may not be felt as being too much by a person running its finger over the ram, and in fact, the person may think that it is good enough, but the o-ring under pressure will sure feel that extra roughness and twist because of that.

On the other hand, an u-cup should not twist in its groove because of its shape; they are so much harder to twist. The Milwaukee o-ring could be replaced by an u-cup for rod application and it should work as good if not better than the o-ring.

It is true that many cylinders use O-rings as main seals, and have done so for many years, more so the lower priced cylinders. Just because they are used a lot does not mean that the O-rings are the better seal, it only means that the O-rings are cheap and work well enough and manufacturers can get away with using O-rings. But better quality cylinders usually use better seals. But usually the cylinders used commercially are repaired on a regular basis, so they operate with seals in better shape. Of course, there is always the cylinder that does not gets overhauled until it leaks like a sieve, but that is lack of a preventive maintenance policy.

Cylinders used by homeowners, on the other hand, are used for many years with the same seals and are only changed, reluctantly, when the cylinder does not works anymore or leaks like a sieve. And even then, some owners still want to use the old seals and only replace the worn one, even if they are over 10, 15 years old.

So, even though O-rings are used in many cylinders, because they work good enough, probably are cheaper to manufacture and the O-rings are cheap to replace, I still don't like its use as a main seal. For that application, an u-cup would be better but more expensive. When I see a cylinder or a jack pump using an o-ring as main seal, I think of that pump as being a lesser equipment. It is like a high performance sports car using bias ply tires; simply not good enough.

Without a Doubt IMO a UCUP provides a superior seal versus Orings, Which is why is when Im asked "Milwaukee or HW" I go with the HW 100% of the time. Im not saying that its not possible to easily achieve +5000PSI with a Oring in a Rod/Piston application because its done everyday. I definitely think in the Hydraulic Jack world, Yes.. Orings whether they are used as Piston seals sitting inside shells or Gland applications are generally thought of as Lower end and Lower Performance, But Milwaukee makes the Case if you do your homework, Provide a Oring with some Heft and utilize Backups you can create a quality product. In the Hydraulic Jack world we are just ambushed by so much Junk with terrible tolerances, Seals that IMO are utilized to prevent longevity for the average end consumer. As far as the Poor Surface issue, I Agree.. Although regardless if your talking about Orings, T-Seals, Pistons/rod ucup any imperfections will be detrimental to the Sealing Abilities and Seal Life. I must say... When you slide that Milwaukee Ram inside the Bore, The tolerances are so.. Close that it might fool you into thinking it would seal without a Oring, its borderline amazing.
 

fatfillup

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Thanks Edgar and Hiball for your knowledge. Both of you explained your thoughts very well so that I could understand them.
 

minimowog

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think i'm going to buy blue point snx25arj which is a 2.5 ton ali jack, cant see a manual online to see what kind of seals it has,

I saw you other thread hiball, and those kind of seals, flat washer with a bonded rubber washer on them are called a "dowty seals" im surprised you say they are prone to failure as dowty make hydraulics for the aerospace industry

anyhow i'll pop some pitures up tomorrow as my grandfather worked for dowty
 

Hiball

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think i'm going to buy blue point snx25arj which is a 2.5 ton ali jack, cant see a manual online to see what kind of seals it has,

I saw you other thread hiball, and those kind of seals, flat washer with a bonded rubber washer on them are called a "dowty seals" im surprised you say they are prone to failure as dowty make hydraulics for the aerospace industry

anyhow i'll pop some pitures up tomorrow as my grandfather worked for dowty

It does appear to be a dowty seal when looking at the backside, flip it over and look at the business end and it's simply a ucup sitting inside a backup or a oring in a shell, Dowty seals are gasket type seals versus piston seals... IRC
 

EDGAR

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For MINIMOWOG

The seal shown below is not a dowty seal. It is just an O-ring and its retainer or shell. This is the same seal shown in Hiball's tutorial.

Also, the aluminum jack SNX25ARJ is the same as the NOS NSJ0302, the Harbor Freight Pittsburg 68052 and the AFF 210. You may end up paying much more for your rebranded Snap On/Blue Point jack than what it is worth. The NOS, the Harbor Freight and the AFF are rated at 3 tons while the SNX is rated at only 2.5 tons (long tons?). Sorry, but it uses an o-ring as a main seal.
 

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minimowog

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thanks Edgar and hiball

i had expected to have a range of dowty seals, they must be camera shy, and i only managed to find one, they make them with different materials as well, i have seen a o ring holder before just cant think what on



the other jacks you posted are the same as the bluepoint one, sadly i cant find any other rebadged versions over here in england
 
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Jeepster04

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Well, believe it or not, I just not ordered a floor jack. Couldnt decide last christmas so I held off. Basically bought the Jegs jack that I originally started the thread about but under the 'Arcan' name from amazon. Has a 1 year warranty and since it was sold/shipped by amazon, hopefully they will be good for the warranty. I really like amazon, never had a complaint when having to return items.

$150 Shipped, gets good reviews too. It will be used MAYBE 5-6 times a year, so hopefully she will last many years.

The aluminum 2 ton craftsman jack I have has lasted well over 10 years now and it only gets 2 stars on sears.com with several reviews. Ive lifted my entire Jeep from the center skid plate (~4200lbs) and its still doing great... idk...
 
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