Jesse James "fixed" a no-start...with a file?

[y20dth]

I just saw an episode of 'Austin speed shop" or something like that.
They were building a hotrod but couldn't get the engine to start.
Found a crack in the thermostat housing(?)
And after a while they show jesse "fixing" one of the cilinderhead by going over it with a file(????)
And then putting the head back on with an air wrench(??)

And then it acually starts up(??)

TV sure makes the world look different....

 

[oilslick]

It was a flathead ford. Briggs and Stratton perfected the design! He'll, you could throw a handfull of **** in one of those flatties and not notice less power or any power for that matter ! I love to look at em but man they **** at everything else.

 

[larry_g]

And after a while they show jesse "fixing" one of the cilinderhead by going over it with a file(????)
And then putting the head back on with an air wrench(??)

And then it acually starts up(??)

TV sure makes the world look different....

Remember it is "reality" TV. Filing heads used to be common, called draw filing, look it up.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Fixnair]

Want to see something interesting? Go here:
flattymisfire mpg (type it into your browser)
You can't do this with a Chevy.

 

[laser3kw]

as mentioned above, a flathead head is nothing more than a plate that covers the cylinders, no valves or rockers. If it is warped, I could see a little file work could get it by. Heck we use to "blueprint" 5hp Briggs "race" motor heads with a beltsander!
I bet the air wrench was just for drama, probably did it right when the camera was off............

 

[lilscorpion]

JJ was intriguing when he was west coast choppers. Almost interesting on Monster Garage. Shortly after that I lost interest in his self induced pseudo-drama and now prefer the cooking channel.

 

[J Persons]

Want to see something interesting? Go here:
flattymisfire mpg (type it into your browser)
You can't do this with a Chevy.

Friend of mine had a mobile air compressor that used a half a 351 Ford Windsor for power. It ran on four cylinders, and the other bank was the compressor.

 

[justanengineer]

I bet the air wrench was just for drama, probably did it right when the camera was off............

I havent seen the episode the OP was talking about as that show is rarely on here, but I think you fellas might be surprised by how badly an engine can be screwed up and still run fairly well. Ive seen "professional" mechanics "torque" heads down with an impact before, especially on HD diesels with big torque values. Some of the old timers especially just seem to have an innate ability with some of these things, either that or theyre just that dam lucky.....

 

[ilovevocs]

JJ was intriguing when he was west coast choppers. Almost interesting on Monster Garage. Shortly after that I lost interest in his self induced pseudo-drama and now prefer the cooking channel.

I like "barefoot contessa" with Ina Garten.

One thing about J.J. is the guy has some super nice tools, and a very nice workshop.

 

[dmeadow]

Once you get past his stoner personality, the stuff he does is really cool.

There were a couple of shows about him going to learn old blacksmithing techniques from some old school guys. It was really interesting and it showed how hard he worked to get it right while getting it wrong a lot. Seems he is most interesting when he keeps his mouth shut.

 

[Jagmandave]

Seems he is most interesting when he keeps his mouth shut.

Bingo.

Actually, I kinda like the guy, at least for his skills and workmanship. He was best before he got all caught up in the TV thing and blasted all over the media.

I hope he gets back to being himself again.....

 

[Drjdvm95]

I think the file was just to do a quick check if the head was flat or remove some gasket material or some other little flaw.... It wasn't really fixing the issue... It was just something he did it while the head was off...

Love him or hate him.... The man is a true craftsman.... He actually builds stuff with his hands and takes pride in learning all types of fabrication and metal working.... He's not some "builder" that designs everything on a computer and has the Cnc machine cut it out

He has true craftsman skills.... No doubt he can be an egotistical a-hole... But the man has skills

 

[Zeke]

Seems he is most interesting when he keeps his mouth shut.



I hope he gets back to being himself again.....

You mean the guy that cheated on 2 wives, belittled the first one and has a go-to-hell, tough guy attitude? Yeah, we need more of that. I'm glad he left Long Beach. Cleaned up the town a little bit.

 

[Alta_Racer]

Many times I have watched top fuel guys impact a head (and other stuff) to make final round when the pressure is on. I saw a fuel line clamped down when they dropped on a head once, I yelled and they pulled the head up, pulled out the line, made it to the line with seconds to go, and won the race. In a small field, you really need prize money, as round money hardly pays for fuel.

 

[y20dth]

Interesting comments here.
Interesting because a lot of you guys are saying JJ is capable, has fabrication skills, etc...

What I do not understand then is, WHY in hell:
1. do his guys (granted, not him) crack a thermostat housing during installing, and leave it like that until they try and start an engine. (and don't try and bs me, if you install a housing an crack it, you know it)

2. Try to start an engine by pouring gulps of fuel in the carbs and then set themselfs on fire!!!!!

3. Try to fix a head with a FILE ! That does not work. Seriously! Sure the engine will run. It will run until the end of the street and then the headgasket will blow. Has nothing to do with valves being in the head or not. The two mating surfaces (head an block) need to be flat. Flatter then any hand operated file can achive.

4. Install the head with a air wrench. NO, and I mean, NO serious mechanic would do such a thing, not even for TV. Only complete ignorants would do such a thing.



If I take into account the amount of money these kind of cars are sold for, and all the "this guy's got skill' comments, i only see what i consider to be redneck,unprofessional, crappy, non-knowledgable, "workmanship".

It's like "There I fixed it" live on tv !

 

[2mJps]

Before the were milling machines they used files to make surfaces. The guys that could do it could do as good or better than a mill.

 

[buildmyown]

Interesting comments here.
Interesting because a lot of you guys are saying JJ is capable, has fabrication skills, etc...

What I do not understand then is, WHY in hell:
1. do his guys (granted, not him) crack a thermostat housing during installing, and leave it like that until they try and start an engine. (and don't try and bs me, if you install a housing an crack it, you know it)
That could be made up drama for TV or things happen
2. Try to start an engine by pouring gulps of fuel in the carbs and then set themselfs on fire!!!!!I think anyone that has tried to start a fresh build and prime the carb like that has had a fire ball or two in their day

3. Try to fix a head with a FILE ! That does not work. Seriously! Sure the engine will run. It will run until the end of the street and then the headgasket will blow. Has nothing to do with valves being in the head or not. The two mating surfaces (head an block) need to be flat. Flatter then any hand operated file can achive.On something like that flat head why not something high performance high compression maybe not but ive done it on a few snowmobile heads to check for flatness and those arein the 150-160psi range and never had a problem. Is it right? No but can it be doen and work sure.

4. Install the head with a air wrench. NO, and I mean, NO serious mechanic would do such a thing, not even for TV. Only complete ignorants would do such a thing.Done all the time run the bolts down with an impact or air wrench and then come back around with a torque wrench. Did they show that on TV? No, because its not a tech show and most would find it boaring.



If I take into account the amount of money these kind of cars are sold for, and all the "this guy's got skill' comments, i only see what i consider to be redneck,unprofessional, crappy, non-knowledgable, "workmanship".

It's like "There I fixed it" live on tv !

Not picking at you its just your post hit on everything in one shot.

 

[larry_g]

3. Try to fix a head with a FILE ! That does not work. Seriously! Sure the engine will run. It will run until the end of the street and then the headgasket will blow. Has nothing to do with valves being in the head or not. The two mating surfaces (head an block) need to be flat. Flatter then any hand operated file can achive.


It's like "There I fixed it" live on tv !

You sir are obviously not a machinist. Filing and hand scraping are well known and are used to get some very fine surfaces. How do you think the machines you seem to be dependent on got there precision surfaces?

lg
no neat sig line

 

[CAOS]

Interesting comments here.
Interesting because a lot of you guys are saying JJ is capable, has fabrication skills, etc...

What I do not understand then is, WHY in hell:
1. do his guys (granted, not him) crack a thermostat housing during installing, and leave it like that until they try and start an engine. (and don't try and bs me, if you install a housing an crack it, you know it)

2. Try to start an engine by pouring gulps of fuel in the carbs and then set themselfs on fire!!!!!

3. Try to fix a head with a FILE ! That does not work. Seriously! Sure the engine will run. It will run until the end of the street and then the headgasket will blow. Has nothing to do with valves being in the head or not. The two mating surfaces (head an block) need to be flat. Flatter then any hand operated file can achive.

4. Install the head with a air wrench. NO, and I mean, NO serious mechanic would do such a thing, not even for TV. Only complete ignorants would do such a thing.



If I take into account the amount of money these kind of cars are sold for, and all the "this guy's got skill' comments, i only see what i consider to be redneck,unprofessional, crappy, non-knowledgable, "workmanship".

It's like "There I fixed it" live on tv !

There is a difference between fabricator and mechanic. That man is a fabricator and a damn good one at that.

 

[STANIMAL]

Interesting comments here.
Interesting because a lot of you guys are saying JJ is capable, has fabrication skills, etc...

What I do not understand then is, WHY in hell:
1. do his guys (granted, not him) crack a thermostat housing during installing, and leave it like that until they try and start an engine. (and don't try and bs me, if you install a housing an crack it, you know it)

2. Try to start an engine by pouring gulps of fuel in the carbs and then set themselfs on fire!!!!!

3. Try to fix a head with a FILE ! That does not work. Seriously! Sure the engine will run. It will run until the end of the street and then the headgasket will blow. Has nothing to do with valves being in the head or not. The two mating surfaces (head an block) need to be flat. Flatter then any hand operated file can achive.

4. Install the head with a air wrench. NO, and I mean, NO serious mechanic would do such a thing, not even for TV. Only complete ignorants would do such a thing.



If I take into account the amount of money these kind of cars are sold for, and all the "this guy's got skill' comments, i only see what i consider to be redneck,unprofessional, crappy, non-knowledgable, "workmanship".

It's like "There I fixed it" live on tv !

Because TV ratings are a business.

 

[malibu101]

There is a difference between fabricator and mechanic. That man is a fabricator and a damn good one at that.

I wanted to add to this thread and what you said sort of sums up my thoughts.
He is a great fabricator with much talent in many facets of metalworking.

But it seems like when it comes to the engine/trans/driveline setup and problems ("mechanic work") , he shys away from it.
Of course this is my opinion from what the network producers want me to see.

Hey, ya can't know everything about everything.

AND, it at one point in time took a man by hand to, make the machine, that made the machine, to make the rest of the machines, we are using today.

 

[cyamaha2007]

I dont see the issue with using a file on the head. A precision surface can be achieved with a file.

 

[Piles]

Our lead engine tech at our shop is probably the best mechanic I have ever known. Has all sorts of special training and courses for every engine there is.

He draw files heads all the damn time. I have never done it but he says it is common in all the engine shops he has worked at, says if it aint too far out then you can true it up with a file.

As for impacting head bolts, I have seen guys do it, and have been told by the previously mentioned engine tech that it is ridiculous. Did JJ just run em in with the impact or was that his final torque?

 

[Larwyn]

I think it is impossible to judge a man's skills or knowledge based on what some TV producer decides to allow on his show. The cracked thermostat housing was probably noticed but saved for theatrical effect.

Snugging head bolts with an impact before final tightening with a torque wrench is common but probably saves less time than many people believe. The unskilled can do a lot of damage trying this.

Christening a new rebuild with fire is not that unusual. The unskilled can do a lot of damage trying this.

Draw filing has long been an effective technique for achieving a flat surface.
The unskilled can do a lot of damage trying this.

Lack of experience is the one thing that leads many people to believe that there is only one way of doing something.

Personally I think Jesse James is likely the best hands on fabricator among all those presented on television, though there are things about him I do not like. There is a world of difference between a true craftsman and a machine operator or sketch artist.

 

[Jim Johnstone]

It is possible to get a surface (or two mating surfaces) flatter with hand tools than with a surface ginder. Especially if the surface in question is an odd shape or too big to setup on a grinder or mill. Its called bringing the tool to the work rather than the work to the tool.

 

[joeswamp]

I recall reading that one of the first assignments of a machinist apprentice 100 years ago would be to take a cube and make it accurate (angles square and dimensions correct) to a precise tolerance. Your only tool was a file.

 

[Piles]

I recall reading that one of the first assignments of a machinist apprentice 100 years ago would be to take a cube and make it accurate (angles square and dimensions correct) to a precise tolerance. Your only tool was a file.

Thats pretty cool. I know where I am from, in school when apprenticing as a HD mechanic you have a few tasks like that, make a wrench to proper size, and smaller machining type tasks only using hand tools.

 

[rustyproject]

I have known some of the guys who have worked at Austin Speed Shop. I can assure you there is no shade tree work coming out of that shop. They may use "old" style fixes but I can assure you it will be right. Draw filing heads and pouring gas into a old carb don't strike me as odd. I guess most folks don't work on really old engines. Want to be really shocked go to a Cackle Fest and watch a guy fire an old top fuel car with a squeeze bottle and then switch fuel on. Makes pouring gas into a carb look like a nothing.

 

[Jim Johnstone]

I recall reading that one of the first assignments of a machinist apprentice 100 years ago would be to take a cube and make it accurate (angles square and dimensions correct) to a precise tolerance. Your only tool was a file.

Another task is to take 3 plates and using only hand tools, make all 3 perfectly flat without the use of any sort of reference flat.

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[justanengineer]

It is possible to get a surface (or two mating surfaces) flatter with hand tools than with a surface ginder.

Yup, hand scraping. Its how you evaluate machine tools, by looking at the wear on the scraping. Ive been a part time student of hand scraping for a few years now on small projects....one of these days I hope to get brave and talented enough to try it on a machine tool.

 

[Jim Johnstone]

Yup, hand scraping. Its how you evaluate machine tools, by looking at the wear on the scraping. Ive been a part time student of hand scraping for a few years now on small projects....one of these days I hope to get brave and talented enough to try it on a machine tool.

Same here I have been messing around with a few blocks of cast iron I got from work. Eventually I want to scrape and restore a WWII era surface grinder that is stored in my father in laws garage collecting dust.

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[joeswamp]

I think in the old days filing and hand scraping were really critical skills because machine tools weren't as accurate nor were they as available as today. Especially in the days before mass production, a lot of stuff was hand filed to fit.

It's kind of like those old school woodworkers that don't use power tools, their toolbox contains a mallet and about eight million chisels. These guys really know how to use a chisel...

 

[Jim Johnstone]

I think in the old days filing and hand scraping were really critical skills because machine tools weren't as accurate nor were they as available as today. Especially in the days before mass production, a lot of stuff was hand filed to fit.

It's kind of like those old school woodworkers that don't use power tools, their toolbox contains a mallet and about eight million chisels. These guys really know how to use a chisel...

Maybe not as available but i dont think I agree with the less accurate statement. Keep in mind the really high end machine tools today are still hand scraped for final fit.

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[gorilla]

Jim, What manufacture's still hand scrape? I know some still frost for oil retention.

 

[Jim Johnstone]

Jim, What manufacture's still hand scrape? I know some still frost for oil retention.

Kitamura for one. Several of the other Japanese manufacturers especially on really large machines where it would be very difficult or impossible to grind the ways of the machine. Imagine a surface ginder capable of grinding the ways on a lathe with a 10 foot bed or longer.

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[joeswamp]

Maybe not as available but i dont think I agree with the less accurate statement. Keep in mind the really high end machine tools today are still hand scraped for final fit.

Yes, I guess what I meant to say was that accuracy was not as cheap or as easily available as it is today. Machines were more expensive 100 years ago, and often weren't as rigid as today's equivalents. The solution to this problem is a skilled guy with a file.

 

[Jim Johnstone]

Yes, I guess what I meant to say was that accuracy was not as cheap or as easily available as it is today. Machines were more expensive 100 years ago, and often weren't as rigid as today's equivalents. The solution to this problem is a skilled guy with a file.

Fair enough, plus there are the jobs that just demand the use of hand tools for one reason or another even with the presence of machine tools.

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[Kracin]

I think it is impossible to judge a man's skills or knowledge based on what some TV producer decides to allow on his show. The cracked thermostat housing was probably noticed but saved for theatrical effect.

Snugging head bolts with an impact before final tightening with a torque wrench is common but probably saves less time than many people believe. The unskilled can do a lot of damage trying this.

Christening a new rebuild with fire is not that unusual. The unskilled can do a lot of damage trying this.

Draw filing has long been an effective technique for achieving a flat surface.
The unskilled can do a lot of damage trying this.

Lack of experience is the one thing that leads many people to believe that there is only one way of doing something.

Personally I think Jesse James is likely the best hands on fabricator among all those presented on television, though there are things about him I do not like. There is a world of difference between a true craftsman and a machine operator or sketch artist.

this.


go read the article they did on jesse james in maxim magazine. probably the best description of how good of a fabricator he really is.

at one time he was making almost every single part he needed when it came to framework and bodypanels for his bikes.

 

[hypnotoad]

jj has great skills......but is a weapons grade delta bravo.