JIS Screwdriver suggestions needed.
- Thread starter geo_08
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vpd66
Well-known member
Just curious, why not Vessel? I have them and love them.
I do like and use Vessel. It is top notch stuff, but I am always open to try new brands. And I haven't tracked down a set of Vessels (only looked on Amazon thus far). The Hozan stuff I have used felt cheap in comparison.
I am tempted to try the ball handled vessels.
Eric29
Well-known member
People on this forum have spoken highly of Toptul. I just ordered some from a guy who posts here and I'm, looking forward to trying them.
They make a JIS? Well a looking we will go.
Eric29
Well-known member
I was told that they are JIS compatible since they are made to the DIN current standard which is JIS compatible.
That's from the person who sold them. I found it confusing to find online, although perhaps I could have searched a bit harder. They are made in Taiwan.
That's from the person who sold them. I found it confusing to find online, although perhaps I could have searched a bit harder. They are made in Taiwan.
rlitman
Well-known member
Chapman now makes JIS bits, if you want to go the insert route.
In the really small sizes (0 and down), Moody makes a nice driver in the USA.
In the really small sizes (0 and down), Moody makes a nice driver in the USA.
1foxracing
Well-known member
If you're in the USA you can order them from JDV products, that's who I get them from.
https://www.vesseltools.com/handtools/screwdrivers
https://www.vesseltools.com/handtools/screwdrivers
HanShotFirst
Well-known member
I have Vessel and it's okay. But the reason people are typically seeking out a JIS screwdriver is because they're using a Phillips and ruining the screw head when the driver slips. Sound about right?
Well, I have found the best solution isn't a Vessel JIS (but that's better than a Phillips), but a Wera laser tip screwdriver. I had the Vessel for about 6 months and it was doing a decent job, but still not perfect. Then I bought a set of Wera's and I don't think I have layed a hand on the Vessel ever since.
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I'd be curious to see the Wera vs the Vessel vs some traditional phillips tip.
rlitman
Well-known member
Current generation Wera phillips are JIS compatible. My older Wera drivers are not.
dnschmidt
Well-known member
WELL, FOR ABOUT THE 100TH TIME. There is no JIS standard anymore. The JIS design was incorporated into the DIN Phillips standard and no longer exists as a separate entity (sort of like a Borg thing). TOPTUL and all of the quality Asian and European brands are now JIS compatible. It's been this way now for many years and yet the myth lives on. Only in America are Phillips screwdrivers immune to what the rest of the world considers to be a proper Phillips screwdriver. The DIN drivers are not only infinitely better with JIS screws than the American type they are also significantly better on true Phillips screws than the original "Phillips" design. The fit is way tighter.
Easy tiger, though I appreciate the info
jgromada
Well-known member
I have the Vessel 220W-3 set https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00E55DL4I/?tag=atomicindus08-20
I haven't had it too long and only used it a few times. I have some strong initial observations. The tips are very hard and work very well on Japanese JIS fasteners. Even though it is a removable blade design it holds it very securely (better than Milwaukee, Klein or a number of other removable blade screwdrivers i have) . In addition to JIS it also has two PZ blades 2 & 3. A great value and great quality. Package marked Made in Japan.
I saw the Hozen and they look pretty basic, but have not tried them.
I haven't had it too long and only used it a few times. I have some strong initial observations. The tips are very hard and work very well on Japanese JIS fasteners. Even though it is a removable blade design it holds it very securely (better than Milwaukee, Klein or a number of other removable blade screwdrivers i have) . In addition to JIS it also has two PZ blades 2 & 3. A great value and great quality. Package marked Made in Japan.
I saw the Hozen and they look pretty basic, but have not tried them.
American Locomotive
Well-known member
I buy my vessel stuff from Ninja Tools. I've been very pleased with them - mine are the non slip "woody" ones.
1foxracing
Well-known member
How many modern motorcycles and Roland wide format printers do you own? Both of these current model products are full of JIS type cross point screws. They are not DIN or phillips type but true JIS identifiable by the dimple in the head.
These are screws I took out of a 2017 motorcycle
I also own both Toptul and Wera drivers and they do not fit true JIS screws properly. Maybe they stopped making JIS screws 10 years ago but they must have a 50 year supply of them and many manufactures are still using them in products.
rlitman
Well-known member
>WELL, FOR ABOUT THE 100TH TIME. There is no JIS standard anymore.
What he's saying is that the terminology has changed, as JIS no longer supports the standard, and has passed the torch to DIN.
It's like saying that exposure speed on a camera is ASA, when it is now called ISO. The specifications are the same, but the same has changed.
What he's saying is that the terminology has changed, as JIS no longer supports the standard, and has passed the torch to DIN.
It's like saying that exposure speed on a camera is ASA, when it is now called ISO. The specifications are the same, but the same has changed.
HanShotFirst
Well-known member
My son's 2018 dirt bike has a Keihn carb with JIS screws holding the bowl on. If Japan stopped making them umpteen years ago, then Keihn and Mikuni musta had warehouses full of them.
I work mostly on motorcycles, and I don't see this delima going away in my lifetime.
I work mostly on motorcycles, and I don't see this delima going away in my lifetime.
dnschmidt
Well-known member
NOBODY EVER SAID THE JAPANESE AREN'T STILL MAKING JIS SCREWS. The DIN 5260 specification, and subsequent revisions, incorporated the features of JIS screws into the screwdrivers. Screwdrivers manufactured to DIN 5260 work perfectly in JIS (yes, those with the dot) screws as it is in fact part of the standard. I've sold hundreds of TOPTUL screwdrivers built to the DIN 5260 specification, primarily to motorcycle people as they are the ones that have the most problems since their screws are torqued the tightest, and they have all LOVED them. Vessel makes great stuff, and the Impacta driver is a work of art, but even Vessel doesn't make JIS screwdrivers they make DIN 6260 screwdrivers.
American Locomotive
Well-known member
Is it really worth getting that upset about nomenclature? If DIN 5260 incorporated the features of the JIS slotted screw, then I think it's pretty okay to still call a screwdriver made with those features a "JIS Screwdriver", especially when the marketing for a lot of those screwdrivers still mentions JIS.
It's like some of the electricians on here that practically have an aneurysm when someone calls 240v mains "220".
It's like some of the electricians on here that practically have an aneurysm when someone calls 240v mains "220".
xin
Well-known member
JIS is what Vessal and others call them that been working on Yamaha/Kawasaki/Suzuki and Hondas for years.
I work for a Japanese-based company that manufactures equipment and there are JIS screws all over the place. They usually send an Engineer multi-bit kit and precision screwdriver set in the tool box. They also send Bondhus hex drivers and wrenches. Goes to say that the Japanese do think highly of some USA-made tools.
I use the Vessel ball handle driver. It works great. +1 highly recommend.
I've used Hozan too. Though they feel "cheap", they do work well.
Looking at Engineer's website, they do have some pretty cool tools.
Heres the Engineer multi-bit screwdriver - http://www.engineer.jp/en/products/dk05e.html
Found it on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/Engineer-DK-05/dp/B000W9HILS
I use the Vessel ball handle driver. It works great. +1 highly recommend.
I've used Hozan too. Though they feel "cheap", they do work well.
Looking at Engineer's website, they do have some pretty cool tools.
Heres the Engineer multi-bit screwdriver - http://www.engineer.jp/en/products/dk05e.html
Found it on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/Engineer-DK-05/dp/B000W9HILS
I've been working on Japanese motorcycles for nearly 4 decades and IMO, the old style JIS drivers fit and work better than the new 5260. But that's just my opinion. But DIN 5260 drivers work 'good enough'.
xin
Well-known member
I will stick with the JIS as well, guessing that 'new' standard must be one of them universal deals. Makes no sense to change a design that works without no issues. Plus the Japanese metal on the fasteners has always been soft (easily strip). Good thing easy to drill out remove if needed.
BDT/NWMN
Well-known member
How many modern motorcycles and Roland wide format printers do you own? Both of these current model products are full of JIS type cross point screws. They are not DIN or phillips type but true JIS identifiable by the dimple in the head.
These are screws I took out of a 2017 motorcycle
I also own both Toptul and Wera drivers and they do not fit true JIS screws properly. Maybe they stopped making JIS screws 10 years ago but they must have a 50 year supply of them and many manufactures are still using them in products.
That picture shows it the way I see it.. The DIN 5260 screwdrivers might be the ideal fits-all for most consumers,, but I am glad the three piece Vessel set is available on eBay. It is on My get list; as I am allowed to own both Vessel and Wera.
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mrborohachi
Well-known member
Check out "Sunflag" They make a **** ton of 1/4" hex bits. And great screwdrivers. The handles are Wera style. I've bought my screwdrivers in Taiwan.
dnschmidt is correct that the JIS standard for screwdrivers is dead. Others are citing they still see JIS screws on current production, which is also correct. If you want a real JIS screwdriver, you better hope you get a NOS vessel because nobody makes them anymore. I like my Wera laser tips enough that I dont feel the need to hunt down an old Vessel. 
That picture shows it the way I see it.. The DIN 5260 screwdrivers might be the ideal fits-all for most consumers,, but I am glad the three piece Vessel set is available on eBay. The three piece set is on My eBay get list; as I am allowed to own both Vessel and Wera.
mrborohachi
Well-known member
Just going to leave this here. From the packaging of a current Vessel #220W
This is false.
The DIN 5260 standard is meant to be backward compatible with the JIS standard. As others have said, it's not ideal when you compare true JIS drivers and how they fit to others that are newer since the JIS standard was absorbed.
Wera makes some bits that are compatible with Asian Phillips screws. No other European screwdriver I have used including Wera kraftform, Wiha softfinish, Witte fit as well as true JIS drivers.
Vessel is probably the best but for $10 just get the HF ones.
1950mercury
Well-known member
Vessel 930's are badass
I recently bought vessels, both the ball one and the megadora 930 (iirc). Very impressed with fit and finish. I had looked at and agonized over the hozan ones but everyone stated they were cheap feeling. Im not disappointed I spent the coin on the vessels.
BDT/NWMN
Well-known member
The new jawsfit tip of the 900 series Vessel vs the lazertip of the Wera?? Vessel has been making screwdrivers for over 80 years, and Wera is not a lowly bystander..
Vessel mentions refinements to DIN compatibility in their literature, Wera has little if any mention of JIS (wonder why THEY would). I don't need more screwdrivers, but look forward to compare the use of these two brands on JIS and DIN screws. Buy it N thy it... Two sets of new screwdrivers ; compared tip to tip, torque to torque, and compare the marks and damage to both fasteners... Tough to get these results on a key board.
Vessel mentions refinements to DIN compatibility in their literature, Wera has little if any mention of JIS (wonder why THEY would). I don't need more screwdrivers, but look forward to compare the use of these two brands on JIS and DIN screws. Buy it N thy it... Two sets of new screwdrivers ; compared tip to tip, torque to torque, and compare the marks and damage to both fasteners... Tough to get these results on a key board.
Sine Swept
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I have Thailand Vessels that have the exact same handles as my Japanese Hozans, which I am very fond of, so not sure why they are bashed so much. If I take my extra long #2 Hozan and put a fastener from a Honda on the tip I can wave it around all day long and it will stay on the tip. I can almost point the screw towards the ground and it will also stay put on the end of the driver.
BDT/NWMN
Well-known member
I agree with that reasoning. Vessel calls their screwdrivers JIS; but have modified the tip enough to work with DIN. They have been making screwdrivers for over 80 years, and if they still call them JIS, that is ok with Me.
I get a chuckle when comparing these screwdrivers tips and a similar comparison of the newer styles of open end wrenches currently available. Wright, ProTo, Snap-on and other major manufacturers have made wrench jaws that resemble a pipe wrench more than a open end wrench. It will be a cold day in hell when I would allow one of those wrenches to knaw into the fittings and adjusting bolts on someone's $700,000 combine. These new style wrenches are made to fit the same fasteners and fittings as My smooth jaw wrenches that were built by these same manufacturers. Standards?????? I have My own, and for certain jobs, there are some well known tools that don't meet mine.
With the variation in tolerances, age, and designs found on both the fasteners and the tools; We enter into a world of make-fit, slip-fit, should-fit, will-fit; and thankfully: proper fit. You are entitled to use the tools and fasteners that work best on your job; and call them whatever You want..
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bmwpowere36m3
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I have a set of Vessel Megadora 900 drivers and they work great on my Japanese M/Cs. They fit phillips screws on my old Mercedes very well too. When I was younger, I definitely buggered up some JIS screws with my Craftsman drivers.
My understanding...
The original JIS standard is no longer supported/official... as mentioned its been taken over by a DIN standard. However that doesn't mean the DIN standard is exactly the same as the JIS, just "compatible".
I don't know if Vessel or any manufacturer today makes true "JIS" drivers... however the ones I have work very well. I find listings typically say "fits JIS". Maybe the only true JIS drivers are out in the wild or NOS.
is dead... however there may still be tons of JIS hardware
That said, I haven't run into issues using new Proto, Snap-On,
My understanding...
The original JIS standard is no longer supported/official... as mentioned its been taken over by a DIN standard. However that doesn't mean the DIN standard is exactly the same as the JIS, just "compatible".
I don't know if Vessel or any manufacturer today makes true "JIS" drivers... however the ones I have work very well. I find listings typically say "fits JIS". Maybe the only true JIS drivers are out in the wild or NOS.
is dead... however there may still be tons of JIS hardware
That said, I haven't run into issues using new Proto, Snap-On,
bmwpowere36m3
Well-known member
- Joined
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side-bar...
"flank-drive" wrenches are AWESOME when dealing with really stuck fasteners. They can cause some damage to fastener heads... but that damage would likely worse with traditional open-end wrench. If you even got the fastener out...
Generally I don't find flank-drive wrenches damaging fasteners if they were properly tightened and not overly corroded. My only reservations would be using them on chrome (for appearance) or aluminum fasteners. My older traditional wrenches would always seen to mar the corners of fasteners regardless.
BDT/NWMN
Well-known member
Yep; Vessel stated they modified the tips for compatibility with DIN some time ago. Yet, they continue to advertise them as JIS, rather than JIS and DIN compatible.. It would be interesting to ask the Folks at Vessel Corporate why their screwdrivers continue to be advertised as JIS.. Until this question is answered; we might have to come up with our own theories:
1: They have always been called JIS screwdrivers, and still work on JIS fasteners.
2: Let's leave the obsolete JIS title on the screwdrivers, so people looking for JIS screwdrivers will buy from Us, being We will be the few companies advertising or selling such a screwdriver. (market tactic of the one and only)
3: Yikes, our customers might think We don't make screwdrivers for JIS any more.
4: The 100 year old Grandpa of the CEO helped build the first ones, and He would be insulted if the JIS was omitted from the advertising.
5: They come from Japan; they have to be right.
6: Lets keep JIS for a nickname