John Deere starter-ford solidnoid fix?

[Dragster Racer]

I have a JD 1050 that has started acting up in the starter area. Just a click. Battery voltage is good and has good amps. I understand that these are notorious for supplying low voltage to the starter since they have three safety switches to go through, and the connectiions eventually have higher resistance. This is a tractor that I wouldn't do without the safety switches since it would run your *** over if you reached in to start it and it was in gear.
I understand Deere has a relay fix for their smaller tractors, but I'm not sure that relay will be beefy enough for the current that the 3 cylinder deisel pulls on the starter. I Ford starter solinoid should work shouldn't it? i can get those cheaper than the Deere relay, and they should have plenty of capacity. Any thoughts/experience?

 

[99SVT]

If ya don't get an answer on here, might try this site... it's where I go for info on my New Holland (of course, under the NH section ).

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/john-deere/

 

[csp]

The relay fix just supplies full battery power to the starter solenoid that's on the starter, rather than routing it from the key switch, through all of the safety switches, and then to the trigger side of the starter solenoid. The safety switches are still in the loop as the power to the new relay still goes through them.

The draw on the new relay isn't what powers the starter. It only adds another loop to the power that goes to the solenoid. There's very little amperage involved.

I had to do this on my Cub 7275 and it's present on lots of machinery from CUT's to combines.

 

[Kevin54]

I don't know about the JD's but my Cub 7272 has the same problem. I have a wiring diagram where you can bypass a couple of switches and get a full 12 volts to the starter and it is supposed to cure it. But when I looked at the tractor it looks like that was already tried. Some say try a new solenoid and it will take care of it. Sometimes I will click the key 30+ times before it starts and other times it will start right up. Definitely aggravating and a definite problem with the Cub CUT's

 

[Dragster Racer]

Oh. Duh! Now I get it. The switch actuates the relay, which then supplies 12v to the solinoid on the starter. I picked up the ford solinoid at lunch, and really that is overkill. I may even have a relay at home sitting around. It all makes sense now!
Thank you!!

 

[sberry]

I did one a while back where I use a Ford starter relay on the solenoid circuit and it worked, leaving the safeties intact, on a German built JD2240 Really test battery well, even a marginal battery will cause them not to work. Didn't help that there are several versions of this tractor, none of the wiring diagrams seemed to match. Had Bosch system. As I recall now it also had alt problem that wasn't apparent at beginning, shorted diode or something, got disgusted with it and finally put GM car alt on it.

 

[bochnak]

If you hear a "click" than the solenoid on the starter has done it's job.

If you hear "no click", I would suspect low voltage to solenoid or solenoid problem.

I would look for a problem with the starter, or the cables that run to it. Clean ground? Corroded cables?

I have a ford solenoid under the hood of my chevelle that supplies full voltage to the solenoid on starter. The advantage of the ford solenoid is that it can be mounted away from heat and draws less current that the chevy one.

 

[A_Pmech]

If the solenoid closed, the problem has nothing to do with safety switches.

My guess is battery or ground connection problem or an internal starter problem such as carbon-loaded slots, high mica, lost brush tension, burned up comm, being the most common.

If it's a high-hours tractor, give the starter a couple solid whacks with a lead hammer. Betcha it starts.

If the hammer trick solves the problem, replace or rebuild the starter, the brushes and comm are gone.

 

[csp]

The problem is voltage drop to the solenoid because of corrossion in the safety switches and the fact that it's a long distance from the key to the solenoid.

The relay will fix it. This is a common problem on utility tractors, full on farm tractors, combines, etc.

Kevin54 I can get you a wiring diagram for your Cub. Mine did the exact same thing with regards to hitting the key over and over and over again before the starter would engage.

 

[Dragster Racer]

The problem is voltage drop to the solenoid because of corrossion in the safety switches and the fact that it's a long distance from the key to the solenoid.

The relay will fix it. This is a common problem on utility tractors, full on farm tractors, combines, etc.

Kevin54 I can get you a wiring diagram for your Cub. Mine did the exact same thing with regards to hitting the key over and over and over again before the starter would engage.

This is what I have read many places. It has enough voltage to click it, but not enough to throw the solinoid all the way forward.

 

[bochnak]

This is what I have read many places. It has enough voltage to click it, but not enough to throw the solinoid all the way forward.

Easy to prove.....jump the terminals at starter.

 

[Dragster Racer]

Don't know why I didn't try that last night. In neutral of course.

 

[Kevin54]

The problem is voltage drop to the solenoid because of corrossion in the safety switches and the fact that it's a long distance from the key to the solenoid.

The relay will fix it. This is a common problem on utility tractors, full on farm tractors, combines, etc.

Kevin54 I can get you a wiring diagram for your Cub. Mine did the exact same thing with regards to hitting the key over and over and over again before the starter would engage.

CSP....PM sent

 

[Heavy Metal Doctor]

For a long run of wire causing voltage drop, we went through tons of the Ford style relays in the starting circuits of and industrial engine package before the MFR. realized the run of wire was more of a problem rather than bad relays. They would give the click but not connect, therefore no start. We started taking out the Ford relays and wiring in a good Bosch style since they are more reliable and activate with very little voltage....now the machines are built that way.

 

[kenners]

Really good site, with lots of very helpful people.

www.mytractorforum.com

 

[Dragster Racer]

I tried to talk it into being low voltage to the solinoid. It was the starter. JD is awful proud of that starter. Had it rebuilt. Left the relay in there for good measure.

 

[JCQuick]

that is also an old Vw trick to old beetles due to age of wires. we just mout them next to the starter a couple of short pieces of wire on starter issues solve

 

[Displaced Hokie]

Yeah, a relay will normally trigger with as little as 9 volts, so it's a good fix for voltage drops.

 

[rodm]

Dragster Racer
I have a JD 1050 with only about 700 Hrs that was doing the same thing,just click when I turned the key, I could tap on the starter with a hammer and it would sometimes start. I took the solenoid apart and found a large copper contact washer that was badly burnt and corroded. I used a file and sandpaper and cleaned the washer up and it has worked great for several years now.
RodM

 

[Dragster Racer]

I suspect that was the culpret. But with over 3 times that many hours, it probably isn't bad to have everything freshened. Now, onto the hydraulic leaks.

 

[bobar]

From bobar understand the low voltage to the starter solenoid on the 1050 where do I get the relay and instructions to mount it Thanks bobar

 

[Racecarl]

Get a starter relay from a 4440 John Deere tractor. They mount on the firewall above the starter and ground through the relay mounting lugs. Make sure there is good metal-to-metal contact so the relay gets a good ground. These relays are very dependable and have been used for years to start a wide variety of John Deere tractors and combines.

A bosch 4 pin 'box' relay would also work, but I would make every effort to get the Deere starter relay.