Jump box math

[OneEyedMan]

I have to jump vehicles on at least a bi-weekly basis. Almost all are 6.0-6.8 litre Diesels up to 10-15L trucks. All have at least two batteries, some three, a few have four. Some are low when I need to start them and some are stone dead.

My go to for at least the last decade has been to keep two ES6000s charged and run them in parallel to start or assist in starting. I have been buying a new pack every two or three years so one is older and one fresher and it keeps my costs revolving instead of two at once.

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This year I bought a NOCO GBX155 lithium pack and have been very pleased with it. It seems to do the work of 1 1/2 of the older packs, but it is rated at 4250 amps. NOCO makes an even bigger 12v pack, the GB250, for ~$1200. The 155 is on sale time to time for sub $300 as are the ones I’ve used for years.

My two pack solution has worked for years. One box will start pickups and small vehicles. Two together will get most of the big stuff moving. I’d like more combined power for better spinning on the big engines and the lithium packs are so much lighter that it’s not a contest.

What numbers do I need to compare? The ES6000 is rated at 3000 amps, the GBX155 is rated at 4250, and the GB250 is rated 5250. Two 155s “should” equal 8500 amps for half the cost of the bigger pack that only gives 5250 amps. What other number should I use to compare or am I overthinking this.

 

[PCustoms]

I don't know if you can parallel the smart lithium packs...

 

[OneEyedMan]

I don't know if you can parallel the smart lithium packs...

I never looked to see if that was listed.

I jump our 24v systems by hooking one box per battery, I wonder if the 12v lithium packs would do that?

 

[dcg9381]

The ES6000 is rated at 3000 amps, the GBX155 is rated at 4250, and the GB250 is rated 5250. Two 155s “should” equal 8500 amps for half the cost of the bigger pack that only gives 5250 amps. What other number should I use to compare or am I overthinking this.

I mean you're looking at the right thing, but you're also reliant upon numbers that are provided by the manufacturer. Do a wire calculation for 3000 amps and tell that the whole thing isn't science fiction?

Might look at total battery capacity too.

I don't know if you can parallel the smart lithium packs...

Can and should are different. From what I can tell those things work by pushing pretty high voltage for a short amount of time. Adding two of them in parallel probably wouldn't necessarily double current, but it likely would work to some degree as long as they didn't interfere with each other by seeing high voltage caused by the other jump unit... I've never done it, but if the OP says it works for him....

 

[PCustoms]

Can and should are different. From what I can tell those things work by pushing pretty high voltage for a short amount of time. Adding two of them in parallel probably wouldn't necessarily double current, but it likely would work to some degree as long as they didn't interfere with each other by seeing high voltage caused by the other jump unit... I've never done it, but if the OP says it works for him....

I read OP as he parallels the old style pack, and is thinking about it with the lithium pack.

The reason I'm not sure that works is the smart detection circuit that prevents shorts/backwards wiring etc. no idea how it would react to 2 packs hooked up.

I've had great luck with these over the years and have bought 3 different ones between my own and gifts. Personally if I needed a light portable pack for giant Diesel engines I would pony up and buy it.

 

[OneEyedMan]

I read OP as he parallels the old style pack, and is thinking about it with the lithium pack.


I've had great luck with these over the years and have bought 3 different ones between my own and gifts. Personally if I needed a light portable pack for giant Diesel engines I would pony up and buy it.

I do run the old style packs parallel, just like jumping from two different sources.

My two concerns with the one big GB250 are cost up front and resilience in my system. With two smaller packs, if one dies I have my second one for some things and the cost to replace is spread over several years. One big pack is awesome but if it fails it leaves a big gap in my capabilities.

I have found that you can override the safety on these NOCO packs to jump a vehicle with zero battery life. I’m not suggesting that as an option with two packs as the cost of failure is pretty steep.

If the sale on these 250s is good enough for Black Friday, I might have to bite the bullet. The hope then would be a four or five year life out of it and the jury seems to be out on that count.

 

[PCustoms]

What are you up to where you need to jump such large engines this frequently?

 

[OneEyedMan]

What are you up to where you need to jump such large engines this frequently?

We have lots of equipment that gets used daily in the summer and weekly to monthly the rest of the year. When we’re using the tractors and semis often they are fine but if they sit for a month the computers can drain the batteries.

Some of my operators are old and if a key is left in the wrong position the batteries are gone over night. With some of the aftermarket GPS and auxiliary systems that have to be turned off independently of the ignition there is another level of battery killers. Lastly, there is almost always one vehicle that is ready for batteries before I have time to change them and I can get through to a rain day by just boosting it in the morning. Group 31 batteries are generally good for about three years and never give up when I don’t need the equipment.

 

[Junkman]

I would connect two Group 31 batteries in parallel. Put them both on a good hand truck. Assemble a pair of welding cable jumpers and roll the hand truck to where they are needed. You can keep the Group 31 batteries on a NOCO battery maintainer when it isn't in use. This is what I do, and it is always ready to go whenever it is needed.

 

[Ohio Andy]

You should see the packs we use to jump some big military vehicles. Really hard to move them.

 

[Callelle]

I use my gooloo 4000amp jump pack to start A26s, Maxxforce N11s/13s, Cummins X15s, it'll usually handle them with a bit of struggle unless the batteries are actually dead dead (wont hold any charge). At work, we use one of the Goodall 10k amps for the shop, that doesn't have any issues with anything, but we've also killed 2 of them. I've tried running both the shop pack and my own on one vehicle and neither of the packs seemed to like it, both giving errors and not allowing me to force them. If you need more ompf than the single NOCO you have, I'd get one of the big goodall packs rather than worrying about calculating hooking multiples up.

 

[Ohio Andy]

I use my gooloo 4000amp jump pack to start A26s, Maxxforce N11s/13s, Cummins X15s, it'll usually handle them with a bit of struggle unless the batteries are actually dead dead (wont hold any charge). At work, we use one of the Goodall 10k amps for the shop, that doesn't have any issues with anything, but we've also killed 2 of them. I've tried running both the shop pack and my own on one vehicle and neither of the packs seemed to like it, both giving errors and not allowing me to force them. If you need more ompf than the single NOCO you have, I'd get one of the big goodall packs rather than worrying about calculating hooking multiples up.

The jump packs I keep in my car. I hook up and just let them sit for a bit so that they can more slowly. Just start to charge that battery... Then again I also had to do that when I was doing a regular jump And a vehicle that had a very dead battery. We sat there for about 20 minutes and then his car started right up (on the regular jump).

Usually when I'm personally using one of the small ones the battery is not completely dead. It just doesn't have enough to do it. So sitting a few minutes is generally enough and then with the pack still connected 'll start it

 

[Callelle]

The jump packs I keep in my car. I hook up and just let them sit for a bit so that they can more slowly. Just start to charge that battery... Then again I also had to do that when I was doing a regular jump And a vehicle that had a very dead battery. We sat there for about 20 minutes and then his car started right up (on the regular jump).

Usually when I'm personally using one of the small ones the battery is not completely dead. It just doesn't have enough to do it. So sitting a few minutes is generally enough and then with the pack still connected 'll start it

I wish that were the case for where I work. What I work on has anywhere between 2-4 batteries in a starting pack. There really isn't any waiting around for 20 minutes to charge, especially in winter when diesels put a ton of draw on the batteries. You kinda need max oomph all at once.

 

[zendriver]

We have lots of equipment that gets used daily in the summer and weekly to monthly the rest of the year. When we’re using the tractors and semis often they are fine but if they sit for a month the computers can drain the batteries.

Some of my operators are old and if a key is left in the wrong position the batteries are gone over night. With some of the aftermarket GPS and auxiliary systems that have to be turned off independently of the ignition there is another level of battery killers. Lastly, there is almost always one vehicle that is ready for batteries before I have time to change them and I can get through to a rain day by just boosting it in the morning. Group 31 batteries are generally good for about three years and never give up when I don’t need the equipment.

Ever think about of just switching the batteries off (or disconnecting)?

They will last a lot longer before discharging, if they are not being drained.

 

[joecon]

I haven't been in the industry for many years but there use to be companies that made large boosters on wheels for just what you are doing. Look for a 12/24-volt pack it will be more powerful.

Start-All® Jump-Pack 12/24V - Vanair - Mobile Power Solutions

The Start-All® Jump-Pack 12/24V by Vanair® offers 10,000A of starting power & 166500 joules5S to jump-start heavy duty vehicles & equipment.

vanair.com

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[OneEyedMan]

Ever think about of just switching the batteries off (or disconnecting)?

They will last a lot longer before discharging, if they are not being drained.

Some of our rigs run on a pretty consistent schedule(spring and fall mainly) and those have disconnects but others are much less predictable. If I know ahead of time which trucks are going to be idled, I just pull the negative leads. Works most of the time but I still have to pull the jump packs out plenty.

 

[Sumboodie]

We have lots of equipment that gets used daily in the summer and weekly to monthly the rest of the year. When we’re using the tractors and semis often they are fine but if they sit for a month the computers can drain the batteries.

Some of my operators are old and if a key is left in the wrong position the batteries are gone over night. With some of the aftermarket GPS and auxiliary systems that have to be turned off independently of the ignition there is another level of battery killers. Lastly, there is almost always one vehicle that is ready for batteries before I have time to change them and I can get through to a rain day by just boosting it in the morning. Group 31 batteries are generally good for about three years and never give up when I don’t need the equipment.

I often get 10+ years out of group 31s

The one in my skid steer is from 2012. Excavator is the original from 2013.

Group 65s on the other hand, im about ready to make group 31s fit as it's getting ridiculous.
Lucky to get 2 years on them, so that's a $325 bill... x several trucks.

I try to start everything before winter hits and make sure the batteries are full. Otherwise they freeze and blow open.

 

[OneEyedMan]

After this discussion, I have a new question. I’ve jumped plenty of rigs with a set of welding lead cables we have. One single set of cables is limited by how much contact each individual clamp can secure. Bigger battery arrays, from what I’ve jumped from, seem to give close results to smaller ones. More points of contact from more sources seem good to my monkey brain.

What is the limit to what can be fed through a set of clamps? I’m not referring to amount of time that you can crank with a pack or cables, but how much you can use to spin for the first shot? I have noticed that the NOCO has a nearly solid side to its clamps to multiply contact points whereas the ES6000 has a fairly conventional copper ring.

 

[OneEyedMan]

I often get 10+ years out of group 31s

The one in my skid steer is from 2012. Excavator is the original from 2013.

Group 65s on the other hand, im about ready to make group 31s fit as it's getting ridiculous.
Lucky to get 2 years on them, so that's a $325 bill... x several trucks.

I try to start everything before winter hits and make sure the batteries are full. Otherwise they freeze and blow open.

Battery life is a moving target. The supplier of Deere Strongbox batteries thirty years ago turned out solid examples. We had one machine we took ownership of at 5k hours. I pulled the batteries out at maybe 15k hours and ten years later and they were ~15 years old. New supplier for Deere churns out gp31 batteries that are good for a month past their one year warranty. We switched back to NAPA.

 

[OneEyedMan]

I have now lived with and loved this NOCO pack for four months. It has been amazing what it will do and especially at its weight. This pack will jump a low 24v system on one battery but teaming them up, the second box senses 12v and won’t engage. I did pick up a Startall 10,000 pack at a trade show for a good price so my top end needs are addressed.

The last two jumps I used the pack on were from fully charged and both worked great. After each of the most recent jumps however, the pack registered two red bars of juice remaining. Previous jumps, and I’d estimate 50-60 uses all on similar systems, power after a single jump would sit at three bars out of four. I always plug in the pack after a use to keep it topped up but I have gotten multiple jumps between charging when needed.

I’m not sure how to accurately measure the packs degradation but it appears to be an issue. My lead-acid packs lost ground after a year or so and I hoped to get that much out of this one.

 

[CJM8515]

frankly speaking having used many of them over the years: it is hard to beat a clore JNC660. We would abuse them at work and if anything internally the cables would start to fail and fray before the batteries gave up.

 

[Retired dozer fixer]

What are you up to where you need to jump such large engines this frequently?

Sounds like you need to invest in some vehicle batteries instead of buying more just packs. Just saying…..

 

[JohnX14]

Good to hear about the NOCO pack's success. I have 2 of them, and 2 of the smaller GB70's. Losing a work van for even a couple hours wasn't worth not having these. (meaning if I have to do a round trip to jump one. I'd rather have one in each vehicle.) I've only used them a few times.

 

[Zewnten]

Like another poster mentioned two(12v) or 4 (24v) group 31s to make a HD jump pack on a dolly will last forever. The red plastic jump boxes are good too, just replace the battery as needed, it's about $100 for a new one.

NoCo are overrated for heavy duty use. They also don't jump anything below 3v, that and the system check takes way too long when it's cold.

 

[Wrench97]

Sounds like you need to invest in some vehicle batteries instead of buying more just packs. Just saying…..

Unfortunately it's pretty common today in fleets 3 group 31's are norm now with GPS trackers, Cameras, and ELD's Driver goes on vacation for a week and the truck won't start. Then there is always the one guy who walked away with the truck running until the shut down timer shut it down and every thing in the cab stayed on for the weekend.....