Junction box question

[Diesel Dan]

Dealing with some issues on the old house and have a question.

In the basement we pulled down the 12x12 stapled up ceiling tiles. I found many junction boxes buried up there which I know was not a good idea. So now floor joists are all exposed and wondering if all those junction boxes need cover plates. They are mounted above the bottom of the floor joists so none are hanging down.

This is also the original 1940s wiring and the metal boxes do have an external ground connecting them all. Splices appear soldered with cloth tape covering, no wire nuts.

Thanks, Dan

 

[aandpdan]

Junction boxes do need to have cover plates. They also must be accessible.

 

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Amazing how many of these old houses with their Gypsy junkwagon wiring haven't burned down yet! LOl...

My friend lived in an old house in Arlington MA, and the basement was just a mess of spliced wires hanging or falling out of open junction boxes. Live or not I did not know. The floor was supported by a screw jack on a 4 x 4 too. Never seen anything like that.

Other than that the house was beautiful.

 

[ratdoggy]

I'd replace that ****...I pulled down a ceiling in my old house and saw stuff connected with wire nuts and no junction box

 

[CJ7VFR]

I'd replace that ****...I pulled down a ceiling in my old house and saw stuff connected with wire nuts and no junction box

Same with my house when I bought it 6 years ago.

Most of the electrical had been upgraded over the years and was up to code. But there were some random wire runs in my basement that my inspector found when he pulled down some of the drop ceiling tiles where they just stapled the wire to the floor joists and they had wire nuts connecting the wires together without putting them inside junction boxes.

It was easy enough to fix that, as whoever did those wire runs left enough wire to unscrew the wire nuts, remove the staples, pull the wire away from the floor joists, add the junction boxes, and then hook it up correctly.

And some of this was done with the old original wiring that was put in back in 1955 when the house was built. I wonder sometimes what is lurking inside the walls where you can't see it.

Jim

 

[Diesel Dan]

Re-wiring the remainder of the house is not an option at this point.
The stuff I did is grounded romex with plastic/fiberglass boxes. Just looking at some of the remaining 1940s stuff.

S.E. was updated in 2012 with new mast, meter base and 200A square D homeline series panel. There was no requirement for AFCI breakers when it was done then either. In kitchen and bath new wire was pulled and GFCI's installed. Inspector wrote down about AFCIs not grounded properly, wtf, there are none.

Have 10-2 w/ground hooked to a 30A two pole breaker and he stated black wire is 12 gauge.

 

[matt_i]

I lived in an old 1950s house in Columbia TN for 2 years...and I will tell you there is some very creative residential wiring going on there......Classic was opening a junction box way up where, took off wire nuts to find standard 120vac hot to neutral, 48vac hot to ground....I never fixed the issues and moved.

 

[sberry]

If I had a wall open it would be getting new wire.

 

[Diesel Dan]

New wire was pulled wherever work was done.
I'd say less than half the house has original wiring.

In areas of anticipated high loads like tv, sewing etc, new wire was pulled to those outlets too.

 

[reader2580]

I pulled down the ceiling in my basement and all kinds of hidden junction boxes. Even worse were live wires just cut off and covered over.

I ended up rewiring over 50% of the house. Every junction box is gone. Do it right if you can. At minimum put covers on the boxes. You need to leave the boxes accessible if you put up new walls and ceilings.

 

[sberry]

TV and sewing are not likely hi loads. Heaters, some girls in bathrooms with hair dryers and kitchen counter tops with micro and toaster ovens are hi draw. Vacuum once in a while.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

I'd replace that ****...I pulled down a ceiling in my old house and saw stuff connected with wire nuts and no junction box

When I redid my basement I took down a hanging lamp and found a bunch of short pieces of zipcord above the drop ceiling with stripped ends just twisted together without anything. No wire nuts, tape, nothing. How the house was not burned down I will never know...

Tommy

 

[Diesel Dan]

TV and sewing are not likely hi loads. Heaters, some girls in bathrooms with hair dryers and kitchen counter tops with micro and toaster ovens are hi draw. Vacuum once in a while.

Kitchen counters has two dedicated 20A GFCI circuits, bath dedicated 20A GFCI.

Sewing rooms today are not like days gone by. Digital sewing and embroidering machines, extra floor lamps, TV, DVD, speakers etc.

Living room same thing. Game consoles, surround sound, recorders, players, etc.

Basically clean power and groud for electronics.
Well, as good as possible. I know the wiring, recepticles and panel are good. New S.E., triplex to pole and new transformer, beyond that out of my control for hardware.

 

[Orionrising]

new tvs use less power then an old style lightbulb

 

[Marctrees]

Old school Soldered and taped is actually better ( consider it equal to) wire nuts with pre twisted connections.

NOTHING wrong with them.

Boxes need covers.

Leave alone unless you want to spend like $ 1000 for a QUALIFIED old time knowlegable Electrician ---- NOT some young kid that highly probably does NOT know OR give a ****.


Marc

 

[Marctrees]

Those boxes were done over yearssssss of remodels.

Wall removals, whatever.

Unless they are at a "point of use" like a ceiling light.

And, people move lights on ceilings, to suit a new Table, or Table location, if only a foot or two even.

NOTHING wrong with them if done properly.

But need covers.

We did that for YEARS in remodels, specially Kitchen areas of homes.

It was , and continues, to be "normal" "remodel" work.

TOTALLY Code Compliant if done correctly.

And, if you don't know, years ago there were no "ground" wires pulled w the ckt.

I think, the first change in homes was "BX" steel sheathed cable, that used the steel corrugated jacket W a "bonding strip" on the interior.

No need to be alarmed if no Grounding in these boxes, assuming older home.

But don't "tap" off of them for future use is best generally.

Marc

 

[Marctrees]

Now, after re reading the OP, I see theyn are in a basement ceiling.

My mistake, I originally thought "in Attic"

You cannot cover them in a basement ceiling, even w covers, unless you cut holes in new ceiling to obviously accesss them.

So, not wanting to do that, have the KNOWLEDGEABLE Old School Electrician come in to cleanup. Marc

 

[Diesel Dan]

Box covers it is!
Circuit tester shows they are grounded, must be through the boxes.

That 42" plasma draws some juice. There is some heat coming out the back of that unit!

Now about the home not having AFCIs.......

Edit, I'm not covering the ceiling back up. Just wondering if the boxes tucked up there needed to be covered.

 

[Marctrees]

AFCI's were introduced in recent years.

MILLIONS of homes exist w/o them. Marc

 

[Marctrees]

GFI's different, were a GREAT improvement in personal shock hazard safety.

MANY people alive because of them. Marc

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Dont bother with snake oil AFCIs.

 

[speedfreek1210]

At least you didn't find knob and tube down there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Diesel Dan]

Had a home inspector make a big deal out of all the AFCIs not being grounded properly.

There are none in the house.

Kind of like pointing out that the home does not have a sprinkler system either.

Edit:
House built in 1944 so not quite old enough for knob and tube. We did find it in one house and I disconnects it.