...is it just me, or are the prices over market? It was an interesting zoo of people and cars, though. It was kind of nice seeing a bunch of the more common muscle cars, especially the Trans Am homologation stuff (Z/28s, Boss 302, Challenger TA, etc.) but nothing super rare. In some ways it was as obnoxious as a big livestock auction, too noisy by half.
Just back from Barrett-Jackson
- Thread starter pep
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BlackSheepSpeedShop
Well-known member
But did you have fun? Any really cool automobilia?
mrholeshot
MEMBER EMERITUS
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I have to build my own cars, I can't afford a Tshirt at that place, lol
oh jeez, I just noticed I put this in the tools section. Oh well, c'est la vie.
I didn't run into any vintage automobilia, although there may well have been a section for it. There was a giant quasi trade show and stuff market. Lots of neon signs for sale, pinball machines, some hotrod parts, a giant pickle forkish twin engined boat on it's side along with a model pretending to be a mannequin. You know, the usual kind of thing. The whole deal was really well run as far as parking and the like. There were actually 5 auctions going on in the area at once.
I was pretty blown away by the overhead for buyers and sellers. 10% for the buyer, 8% for the seller, $500 for a potential buyer, AZ sales tax if you don't ship it out of state with some sort of professional carrier.
Since I've done the muscle car thing for a good long while, I have mixed feeling about the price run up (probably not dissimilar to how a lifelong biker feels about modern Harley-mania). Prices are 2x what I think is reasonable, there's really no way that 1969 Z/28 is worth twice what a new one is, OTOH there's been a lot of money spent on restorations that wouldn't have been otherwise. When the bubble bursts, there'll be way more nice cars than there otherwise would have been.
Bidding looks scary. Big jumps, lots of hullaballoo, sort of confusing. They crank right through the cars so I can understand why. Honestly, it was more fun just to wander around the tents and check out the stuff outside the hall that was sold already or before it was sold.
To tell you the truth, even with the added accessibility you get as a registered buyer, I don't see how you could properly inspect a car if you were paying top dollar.
I got to go on Thursday compliments of an equipment vendor with which I have done business. He is also a die-hard car guy, hence B-J Auction for hosting customers. The thing that impressed me the most was the myriad of ways that B-J makes money! They charge the vendors for the spaces to sell their wares, plus they take a cut of the sales! And on the cars both the seller AND the buyer pay. I talked to a vendor whose primary business is custom cabinets for home and/or business. At B-J he was selling custom-made wooden bicycles! They were selling for around $2500 each. He had sold 3 by the time I talked to him on Thursday and he was in the black! So he had made up his fees to B-J and any others he sold were pure profit less the cost of production. To Craig Barrett its all about bringing the bodies through the doors (over 400,000 at $30.00/head) and take your cut of the vendors profits! Its a money machine.
Phil
Phil
jayoldschool
Well-known member
You only noticed this by going there? It's been on TV for ten years...
colt zantop
Well-known member
I think he meant this year they are back up over market... the last couple years have been rough for collector car prices and YES, this year they seemed to be up a little from the past few.
Sorry kiddo, no TV here.
One thing I'll make a bet on is the number of fake rare Chevrolets changing hands. There's too much wiggle room given the lack of knowledge you can gain from a VIN, too many DATE CORRECT REPLACEMENT ENGINES (lol), ease of faking paperwork, etc. etc.
Another thing I love about that hobby is all the up-optioning.
I expect that one thing you are seeing lately is wealthy people trying to move money out of paper assets.
Exactly. As I said in my last post, maybe there's some pure investment activity going on.
...the one car that I actually sort of coveted:
http://www.dupontregistry.com/autos/search/DRauSearchDetails.aspx?itemid=882717
It went for $60k and some change I think. Way cooler than some restored 1 of 5000 car or yet another fake Yenko.
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Toolhorder
Well-known member
I really dislike the state of classic cars where it's at now. When I was getting into them as a kid (only 14yrs ago) the prices were way more reasonable. I'm turned completely off seeing 70's camaro's on CL for over 2 grand. When I was into classic cars anything over 1964 was NOT desirable at all and you could pick them up for a song (I live in CA. so the smog cut off was 64, 65 and up you had to smog)
Then the shows came out like American hot rod, etc.. and the prices plus people using equity as an ATM made the market crazy high. Just like with the housing market you had a million leaches coming into the scene and driving up the market.
Now the market has fallen and everyone is out to get what they can. You got guys like Wayne Carini and Barry White who redo cars and they can't seem to understand why they aren't selling cars for big money anymore. Everytime I watch their shows they make excuses why the cars don't sell for what they want. "Ah, not enough people today", "Wrong crowd", "I'll just keep it for that", "Someone will call me later and buy it"
Really?!?
Come back to reality guys it's a dead market!
I hope all these auction companies go out of business personally. Cars are meant to be driven not paraded around like trophies. I wish those richers would find another hobby like boat collecting or something.
Then the shows came out like American hot rod, etc.. and the prices plus people using equity as an ATM made the market crazy high. Just like with the housing market you had a million leaches coming into the scene and driving up the market.
Now the market has fallen and everyone is out to get what they can. You got guys like Wayne Carini and Barry White who redo cars and they can't seem to understand why they aren't selling cars for big money anymore. Everytime I watch their shows they make excuses why the cars don't sell for what they want. "Ah, not enough people today", "Wrong crowd", "I'll just keep it for that", "Someone will call me later and buy it"
Really?!?
Come back to reality guys it's a dead market!
I hope all these auction companies go out of business personally. Cars are meant to be driven not paraded around like trophies. I wish those richers would find another hobby like boat collecting or something.
It irritates me too, but it's not going to kill me. I think the best answer is just to cast around for another angle to it all. Sleepers maybe, or unusual projects.
One of my favorite cars for years in Hot Rod magazine is this thing:
http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/hrdp_0611_72_nova_w2w/photo_01.html
atari
Well-known member
I can't believe how much NSRA year cars have gone up. My dad had a 37 plymouth that he sold some years ago. He asked me if it was ok and I couldn't say no,he was making a profit. I thought I will just build another one, yea not so much.
Toolhorder
Well-known member
Yeah my first classic was a regular non SS 64 Chevelle. Nothing special 2dr. hardtop w/283, 2spd. powerglide. Paid $1600 in 97 for it. Blew up the engine racing it and I dropped in a crate 350 engine and new Holley carb. and then tried to sell it as I was trying to go to college to be a mechanic. I remember people would come by and call it junk and walk away (several people actually) The car had all it's original parts, paint, etc.. it was a decent car but I finally got 2K from a guy for it a couple months later.
Now, in today's market it's a 4-6K car easy. In fact probably couldn't get something like that less than 6K in my area. I was looking at roller primered "projects" for 4-5K. It's just crazy. The amount of work to restore them isn't any cheaper either. With the paint politics in CA. I'd say it's more.
Now, in today's market it's a 4-6K car easy. In fact probably couldn't get something like that less than 6K in my area. I was looking at roller primered "projects" for 4-5K. It's just crazy. The amount of work to restore them isn't any cheaper either. With the paint politics in CA. I'd say it's more.
davesnothere
Well-known member
Those wooden bikes were badass!
atari
Well-known member
I have a 79 bronco that has been restored frame down. The body is to far gone to restore and I have been looking for a truck cab to put on it. People watch barret/mecum and think there rotted out 32 ford cab with no title and glass is worth a mint. I have seen some decent ones but they are all way to much. Like not even worth calling about to much. People don't want to hear that the 800$ pile of rusy parts is really just a sandblaster away from not existing anymore. God love Ohio!
I watched on speed and i have been watching for years.Ive also been a car hobbiest forever and I feel that the prices werent bad this year not compared to 05-07.Take a look at the neat Galaxie with the little drag boat on the trailer both had new 427 cammers (big money and there were 2) both mint too. the whole mess went for 80 grand.Its a lot of dough sure but it could no way be built for that. If you look at the results on line 10-15 grand got you a nice car there. Dont know how they ran but they looked good.I think its a lot of BS at times but there is deals there.
ramtuff
Well-known member
I agree. I saw a 67 Shelby GT350 sell for about $80K, and a 68 Hemi Coronet sell for $70K this year...both would have been well over $100K the past couple years. There were a few break-out cars this year, but overall I thought prices were weak compared to the past few years (still inflated though. lol).
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I try to go to Barrett Jackson every year. If you go on family day before the auction starts it's $10-12 which is cheaper than a Good Guys event to get in. Barrett jackson has always been for the more money than brains crowd. They have some great cars and a lot of not so great cars each year.
They're not the only auction in town (although they try to be). RM is a lot smaller but, has more expensive cars go across the block in only two days. Russo and Steele made a decent comeback from the wind blown tents last year. The silver auction this weekend is really the working man's auction and also the buyer's remorse auction as there are always a few cars that were bought at barrett jackson last weekend that end up back for sale.
In 40 years Barrett Jackson has created an industry all to their own. They definitely know how to squeeze a buck anyway they can. I was disappointed in the JFK ambulance **** this year though.
They're not the only auction in town (although they try to be). RM is a lot smaller but, has more expensive cars go across the block in only two days. Russo and Steele made a decent comeback from the wind blown tents last year. The silver auction this weekend is really the working man's auction and also the buyer's remorse auction as there are always a few cars that were bought at barrett jackson last weekend that end up back for sale.
In 40 years Barrett Jackson has created an industry all to their own. They definitely know how to squeeze a buck anyway they can. I was disappointed in the JFK ambulance **** this year though.
SpeedCoach
Well-known member
I enjoy Barrett-Jackson Scottsdale (dont watch the others).....it's a few great nights of mindless television and I cannot turn it off. Prices to me seem largely overblown (especially on Friday and Saturday)....but I watch for entertainment. I enjoy playing the fantasy auction as well.
Muscle cars are really, really overvalued right now.I doubt any of them are great investments at this point. That market is just so hot right now because all of the original owners are old guys that owned them when they were young, or wanted them as kids. As that generation passes, they'll still be valuable, but more in line with reality.
Well, they're worth what they're worth (tautology for the day), the value is whatever somebody is willing to pay. If you mean that they are at their peak, inflation corrected value, I'll tend to agree. In a hundred years, they'll be worth scarcely anything except for perhaps scrap value. I think what is currently viewed as rarity/value...things like COPO Camaro vs. SS396, or Trans Am convertibles vs. 400 Firebird convertibles, won't mean a thing in 2110.
I think a better bet for the long haul would be high performance cars where the whole car is different rather than engine options in massively produced models. My purely wild-assed guess is that something like an AC428 will hold it's value more than a ZL1 Camaro. Overall, I'd say that the collector values of cars generally will drop if you go out 30-40-50 years.
When I'm 120 years old, I'll have to dig up this post and see if I was right.
Toolhorder
Well-known member
Bart Simpson
Well-known member
Here is a link to a few " celebrity " cars that crossed the auction block there.
http://photos.tmz.com/galleries/cel...ackson_photo_gallery_pictures#tab=most_recent
Alice Cooper had a nice looking 69 Camaro, Alan Jackson and Sylvester Stallone both sold a number of nice vehicles.
Bret Michaels sold his his 69 Camaro for $220 K !!! ????
http://photos.tmz.com/galleries/cel...ackson_photo_gallery_pictures#tab=most_recent
Alice Cooper had a nice looking 69 Camaro, Alan Jackson and Sylvester Stallone both sold a number of nice vehicles.
Bret Michaels sold his his 69 Camaro for $220 K !!! ????
cowchaser
Well-known member
Watched the auction every night last week. The wife was determined she was going to win an ipad. Tried to tell her I had no clue what the cars were worth.
Only thing I know is there seemed to be a lot of people with a lot of money. I sure wished I knew where they worked or how they invested to be able to have that kind of money. I did see some cars that I honestly wouldn't want no matter how collectible in my garage. I like the customized hotrods myself.
Only thing I know is there seemed to be a lot of people with a lot of money. I sure wished I knew where they worked or how they invested to be able to have that kind of money. I did see some cars that I honestly wouldn't want no matter how collectible in my garage. I like the customized hotrods myself.