Just can't seem to get my project started...

[supernova]

Well, my wife & I decided to put an addition on the garage. We currently have a 12 x 20, which when she parks her durango in there in the winter, getting in my tool box or my workbench is near impossible! In the summer I get the garage for my road king, so the addition we're looking at is adding 18' onto the back. Sounds easy enough, right? First, had the inspector come out, I've never dealt with getting a building permit before, but decided I'd better this time, really starting to wish I hadn't. Anyway, inspector came out, looked at the garage, and said "that slab is too thin to let u add on, I'd rather you knock it down and build yourself a 2 stall garage deeper in your lot." I looked at him & said I'd rather do that too, but I can't afford that right now, we have a baby coming in June and I wanna do this as quickly and as cheaply as possible, but right at the same time, which is why I called you. He says ok, looks at the garage & tells me he wants me to jack up the garage, bust out the 4" slab that's already there, & pour it all as one & change the sill plate out with treated lumber. I just looked at him incredibly, then he said ok, think about doing that, but you definitely need to change the sill plate.

So, after tons of research, which brought me to this great forum, that's what I did. I apologize, I started taking pics of the whole jacking up & adding the sill platewith intentions of doing a detailed thread on here, but my help was in a hurry to get somewhere else, so I didn't get any pics other than the crappy ones I took with my camera phone of the bracing before I got started. All in all it went well & I had it all strapped back down in a little over 3 hrs! I actually raised it 5.5 inches with a 4 x 6 on end (had a low 7' ceiling).

Anyway, after that I applied for my permit, waited awhile before I called the public works department of our great little town, to find out they had decided I need a variance permit too, since whoever built the garage, damn near placed it on the lot line, and we have a 3' setback clause in the code book. I wonder how long they were going to wait for me to call and bug them before they actually called to let me know this. I told the building inspector from the beginning I hadn't ever gotten a permit & didn't have a clue about the process. He was less than helpful. So now, I'm going to spend an extra $100 for this variance permit, wait for the public meeting so a neighbor can say no & ill be out the money I've already spent, plus the $100 permit fee. Starting to think it might not happen..... I just want a little spot for my tools, my Harley, some storage, and a place to do a little bit of wrenching & hangout for some peace of mind once in a while.

I apologize for the long post, needed to vent. Hope I get to start my addition soon so I can put some neat ideas from all of you into my own motorcycle garage! I've definitely enjoyed all the small garage threads especially, a lot creative & organized people on here, hope I get to add my own build in here soon. My wife's already sick of me talking about it & my new garage journal addiction. Lol

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[JimVonBaden]

You typed all that on a cell phone????

Seriously, good luck with your project, and make sure you share lots of photos!

Jim

 

[supernova]

Yeah, I'm a machinist & my machine was running pretty good tonite so was more than a little bored... Lol

And thanks Jim, I've been following your garage build too. Nice floor!!

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[Falcon67]

You aint out yet. Just because one neighbor complains doesn't mean the project is a scrap. If there is no real harm to the neighbor in going down the lot line, and if there are other structures in the area that lay on the lines, you are repairing and upgrading the property, you have a reasonable case for getting a variance. Do your research - Google Earth sat photos of things, property layouts from maybe the county tax assessor web site, sketch of what you need. Be more prepared and professional in your presentation than a bitchy neighbor. 12x20 is squat for any decent size vehicle today - the 86 Ford pickup I'm about to start on is 18' x 8'. Our house garage is 21 1/2' deep x 22 wide - big for most houses - and my F150 Super Crew clears the nose by about 12" and the hitch ball clears the door by 6". I fold the driver's mirror in to clear the door frame when pulling in.

 

[darkk]

So, after tons of research, which brought me to this great forum, that's what I did. I apologize, I started taking pics of the whole jacking up & adding the sill platewith intentions of doing a detailed thread on here, but my help was in a hurry to get somewhere else, so I didn't get any pics other than the crappy ones I took with my camera phone of the bracing before I got started. All in all it went well & I had it all strapped back down in a little over 3 hrs! I actually raised it 5.5 inches with a 4 x 6 on end (had a low 7' ceiling).

Never expect a building inspector to freely give out info. Mine was the same way. I asked questions of my inspector and he said" I'm not here to help you build anything. All I can do is tell you that you did it wrong" They don't want you telling anyone else that he said build it that way. Although at the zoning variance meeting they made me change my original drawings to a sample *they* provided to me. Don't worry about one neighbor stopping the project. They need a good reason to deny...

 

[ddawg16]

And people complain about California?

I can call my inspector....he will come out and help me solve problems. I have done this more than once. His attitude (and the same for the other guys). The fact that I want to do it right means they want to help me do it right. I have found mine to be very reasonable.....as well as the planning dept. The stick to the rules...but they also explain the rules and tell me what the options are.

My garage is 6" from the property line. I could have gone right on the line...but I wanted enough room for the rain gutter...

Instead of talking to your inspector....go down to the planning dept. Take some pictures with you as well as a fairly accurate scetch of your property layout with dimensions. In 'most' cases they will explain what your options are.

Side note...how does the inspector know your existing slab is too thin?

 

[Kevin54]

Supernova....are you in or out of the Corporation Limit? I also don't know how an inspector would know that your slab is too thin unless you are trying to build on a patio slab or something along those lines. But even at that, you can build the addition pole barn style and get around that. Looking forward to seeing some pics so we can make up your mind for you

 

[supernova]

Thanks for all the ideas. I'll start in on all of those after I get all of my other "chores" done this afternoon. Lol

As far as him knowing my slab is too thin, I don't have the slightest. It was poured at the same time as my driveway. I live in newton, ia. A small town where anybody with the slightest bit of "authority" if that's what you want to call it, walks around like a cocky rooster with their tail feathers sticking out. No disrespect to police officers, but you should see ours! Oy!

And, I'll definitely take pics of the build & the finished addition, if I ever get one, & look forward to all ideas & having my mind made up for me.

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[supernova]

Oh, and Kevin, I don't know what you mean by in or out of corporation.

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[supernova]

Ok, so, my variance meeting with the zoning committee is this Wednesday afternoon. Unfortunately I won't be able to attend it as I am taking my step daughter to a Dr appt, definitely more important. The city planner I talked to said its no biggie if I'm not there, I emailed her all my information and she'll present my case, and thinks it should be all good, which means ill be digging in the mud on Thursday with my permit. Now, I have a question. I'm tying into the existing garage slab, drilling holes & putting rebar in. Any ideas how far the rebar (no. 4) needs to go in & stick out into the new floor, and how close together they need to be? What kind of epoxy should I use to do that with? I was just figuring on driving the rebar into the slab, but the inspector said to epoxy them in. Trying to get all my ducks in a row so I can get this going.

 

[Kevin54]

Ok, so, my variance meeting with the zoning committee is this Wednesday afternoon. Unfortunately I won't be able to attend it as I am taking my step daughter to a Dr appt, definitely more important. The city planner I talked to said its no biggie if I'm not there, I emailed her all my information and she'll present my case, and thinks it should be all good, which means ill be digging in the mud on Thursday with my permit. Now, I have a question. I'm tying into the existing garage slab, drilling holes & putting rebar in. Any ideas how far the rebar (no. 4) needs to go in & stick out into the new floor, and how close together they need to be? What kind of epoxy should I use to do that with? I was just figuring on driving the rebar into the slab, but the inspector said to epoxy them in. Trying to get all my ducks in a row so I can get this going.

Your inspector needs to get his head out of his ***. The rebar doesn't NEED to be epoxied in because once the concrete is poured there is nothing to pull the rebar out. All the rebar pins are for is to keep one slab in line with the other if there would be any settling or if there would happen to be a frost heave. But if he insist on epoxy or something along those lines, don't go to a big expense for a bunch of two part epoxy. Just pick up a tube or two of structural adhesive, squirt in the hole, and be done with it.

As far as to how far apart, if you are between 1'-2' apart and 6" in and 6" out, you will be fine. Again all the pins are for is to keep the two slab heights together.

Pick up a good mason bit the diameter of the rebar, and a hammer drill, and go at it. There's no rule of thumb and it's not rocket science.

Oh and GOOD LUCK. I hope your permit comes through with no problems. And make sure you post up pics of the groundbreaking ceremony

 

[NUTTSGT]

Make sure you start taking pictures, not only for here but also to give you a record of what is going on. Which may be especially important if your inspector wants to be a **** later.

How does he know the slab is too thin ? Maybe he inspected the place when it was built and had his palmed greased by the contractor to pass a thin slab ?

 

[supernova]

That all sounds good Kevin, thanks. I was wondering about the epoxy too, why make that spot so much stronger than the rest of the garage? He's just a ****!

And I plan to take a bunch of pics for everybody. The great thing about my inspector is that instead of offering advise when I ask him a question, he just looks at me, or gives me an awkward silence on the phone, then never really does answer me, almost like he wants me to do it wrong so he can tell me its wrong &ale me redo it. The garage was built in 1959, so he didn't make any easy money then, & he's not going to this time either, I'm just going to do it right w/o his help! Thanks guys!

 

[Falcon67]

Every slab I've seen around here that was pinned to one along side used epoxy on the pins. So, SOP around here, no big deal. I would do it without being told, personally.

What's also sad is that our local inspector will freely tell you what is expected and what he looks for, pretty easy to get along with. The local building department should be a resource for information, since the tax payer pays to support it. If there weren't any buildings or construction, they could all go do something else. But sadly, it seems some inspectors aren't built with any customer service capability.

 

[Zeke]

Epoxy is the new thing. Just get some single tube stuff and do it. There is a much better benefit to drilling your dowel holes at a 15 or so degree angle and bending the bars straight right out of the hole. Alternate the angles.

I, too, don't see how the inspector had any right to tell you to modify an existing structure. Even if you are adding an extension. When you build within the footprint of existing, they can ask for improvements. The rest should be grandfathered unless it is so substandard that it should be torn down.

 

[NUTTSGT]

And I plan to take a bunch of pics for everybody. The great thing about my inspector is that instead of offering advise when I ask him a question, he just looks at me, or gives me an awkward silence on the phone, then never really does answer me, almost like he wants me to do it wrong so he can tell me its wrong &ale me redo it. The garage was built in 1959, so he didn't make any easy money then, & he's not going to this time either, I'm just going to do it right w/o his help! Thanks guys!

The problem with the inspector maybe (talking about yours, not all of them) he is book smart. He only knows what the book tells him. He can't offer advice because he has none to give. If this is the case, he can only point out what you have done wrong and not give reasons as to why but "that's what the book says."

Honestly, my friend I hope the best for you on your build and no hassles from your inspector.

 

[supernova]

Ok, I'll do the simple epoxy just to keep him from bitching & making me do it again, that would ****. Thanks zeke, I never thought about the bending of the rebar, makes sense. And as far as him making me change the existing garage sill plate, when I was talking to the city planner who was a huge help, he signed off on the garage & said it was a strong, very well built structure, wasn't any comment in there about making me change it. But, I'm just going to look at it as I learned something new, never jacked up a garage before, & now I have, 6" more of ceiling height in my old & new garage.

Now, another question for everybody... code is 6" from the grade to the sill plate, so I'm going to have to incorporate a curb on the new slab. I was originally thinking about trying to do it all in one pour. I'm doing a monolithic slab. I'm not the best or most experienced concrete guy, I'll have some help tho. So I'm thinking about pouring the slab with a cement truck, then the next day mixing up my own concrete and pouring the curb. Anyone see an issue with that? Will I need vertical rebar in it addition to the anchor bolts I'll put in the slab? I'll be running some longitudinal rebar in the curb. Thanks guys & gals for everything!

 

[NUTTSGT]

Now, another question for everybody... code is 6" from the grade to the sill plate, so I'm going to have to incorporate a curb on the new slab. I was originally thinking about trying to do it all in one pour. I'm doing a monolithic slab. I'm not the best or most experienced concrete guy, I'll have some help tho. So I'm thinking about pouring the slab with a cement truck, then the next day mixing up my own concrete and pouring the curb. Anyone see an issue with that? Will I need vertical rebar in it addition to the anchor bolts I'll put in the slab? I'll be running some longitudinal rebar in the curb. Thanks guys & gals for everything!

Either I'm thinking wrong or you are.

code is 6" from the grade to the sill plate

I would take that as the ground level (grade) must be 6" lower than the sill plate.

 

[aabirdman]

Epoxying is not a new thing. Been doing it for years, especially in commercial construction. If the dowels can move then you;ve defeated their purpose. They would not necessarily if just placed with the pour. Just good practice.

 

[supernova]

Either I'm thinking wrong or you are.

code is 6" from the grade to the sill plate

I would take that as the ground level (grade) must be 6" lower than the sill plate.

Isn't that the same thing? That's how I understood the inspector. The ground level (grade) of the existing garage is right there on the grade line and if only tapers off probably 1.5" to the end of the addition, so I'll probably need quite a bit of curb to make it.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Isn't that the same thing? That's how I understood the inspector. The ground level (grade) of the existing garage is right there on the grade line and if only tapers off probably 1.5" to the end of the addition, so I'll probably need quite a bit of curb to make it.

I'm thinking wrong, well misunderstood what you were saying. You're taking about pouring a slab. The curb you're taking about is the foundation wall. WHen you said curb, I was thinking of something else, my mistake.

I've never heard it referred to as a curb before, caught me off guard.



How about laying up one course of 8" block instead of a concrete wall ?

 

[supernova]

I'm thinking wrong, well misunderstood what you were saying. You're taking about pouring a slab. The curb you're taking about is the foundation wall. WHen you said curb, I was thinking of something else, my mistake.

I've never heard it referred to as a curb before, caught me off guard.



How about laying up one course of 8" block instead of a concrete wall ?

I've thought about it, and been told block walls can be a *****. The mortar can be somewhat of an art form to get right? Plus the added expense of the blocks, all thread, & mortar? Plus, I'm going with 2x4 stud walls. You think its a bad idea to pour the "curb" on the second day? Think there will be a problem since its not bonded to the slab? Wouldn't it be just like a block wall, only its concrete, not block?

 

[NUTTSGT]

I've thought about it, and been told block walls can be a *****. The mortar can be somewhat of an art form to get right? Plus the added expense of the blocks, all thread, & mortar? Plus, I'm going with 2x4 stud walls. You think its a bad idea to pour the "curb" on the second day? Think there will be a problem since its not bonded to the slab? Wouldn't it be just like a block wall, only its concrete, not block?

I don't think it's a bad idea, I was just offering another possibilty.

One thing you need to remember is you have to form up that short little wall. I'd be concerned with trying to keep the form from moving around when you're filling it with concrete. I wouldn't want to be trying to tapcon it in place, which means tapcons into your new slab. Another option would be to place a large amount of something heavy along the form to keep it in place, like concrete block or brick.
If I were to pour the wall, I'd put some rebar in the slab to tie them together. before the form is put up, I'd run some rebar (horizontal) long ways, tieing it to all the vertical rebar.
Doing the block, (I'm about to do a small wall myself) I'd drill and put in some rebar in the slab, matched up with the core holes in the block. The day after the block is laid, I'll go back and fill all the block and place my anchors.

Hopefully, the weather will be good today and I can start. I'll be sure to take some pictures.

BTW, I'm not in any way claiming to be a mason or a concrete guy, I'll leave that to the pros. I'm sure somebody on here has plenty of experience and can offer more advice.

 

[Zeke]

Epoxying is not a new thing. Been doing it for years, especially in commercial construction. If the dowels can move then you;ve defeated their purpose. They would not necessarily if just placed with the pour. Just good practice.

It's the new thing to me. I built my first room addition in 1974. No inspector required what is required today (clean holes, deputy inspector on site while epoxy is placed) until around 10 to 15 years ago. Sorry for the misunderstanding. BTW, I think it was an inspector that told me to angle the holes, but I can't be sure at this old age.

 

[NUTTSGT]

If you check out my refurb thread on the last page, 23 and starting with post #448, you can see what I was referring to with the block work.

link in my sig.

 

[supernova]

Thanks nuttsgt, I remember lookin.g thru ur build when I first started lurking here, cool space!! I still have some time to think about it all. Trying to do it right, but the cheapest route possible (wife, nuff said? )

Zeke, we just got a new cnc at work, and they drilled out a 5" shallow hole, & epoxied the leg bolts into it with a 2 part epoxy, I think it was something like 7000# strength, wasn't sure if that was what I was needing here, thought maybe it would be a little overkill.

 

[supernova]

Still waiting to hear about my variance & permit (way over slept yesterday) But, all this extra waiting time has given me some more time for pondering....
As far as my slab & "curb" go, I really keep trying to figure out a good way to pour it all at once. I just had an idea, what about using the wire for my rebar & mesh to hold my inside forms to my outside forms? Just drill some small holes every 18"-24" as well as 2x4's and such for extra strength? Pour the footings first, then the floor, then go back & pour the curb? That make any sense? Think it will work? Maybe over build it in the corners? I know it can be done & its **** like this that drives me crazy, gotta figure out how to do it! Lmao once again, thanks in advance to everyone that looks &/or throes out some feedback!

 

[joes169]

Don't try to use wire mesh for form support, it bends like crazy & will move when poured on top of.

Pouring the entire slab with thickened edge & curb at the same time is going to be both the most efficient and superior approach. If you can post a simple sketch/diagram of what you're trying to do, I guarantee the membership here can help you through it........

 

[DYNA BILL]

Yeah, I'm a machinist & my machine was running pretty good tonite so was more than a little bored... Lol

And thanks Jim, I've been following your garage build too. Nice floor!!

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I wish they had CNC machines when I was a machinist.

 

[ddawg16]

Still waiting to hear about my variance & permit (way over slept yesterday) But, all this extra waiting time has given me some more time for pondering....
As far as my slab & "curb" go, I really keep trying to figure out a good way to pour it all at once. I just had an idea, what about using the wire for my rebar & mesh to hold my inside forms to my outside forms? Just drill some small holes every 18"-24" as well as 2x4's and such for extra strength? Pour the footings first, then the floor, then go back & pour the curb? That make any sense? Think it will work? Maybe over build it in the corners? I know it can be done & its **** like this that drives me crazy, gotta figure out how to do it! Lmao once again, thanks in advance to everyone that looks &/or throes out some feedback!

Click on the link in my sig for the garage build....you will see how they did mine...

They also make these little straps just for that reason...if you have form boards stacked...the strap goes between the boards and you have a little wedge on the outside...if just one board, you nail it....

The end tabs are designed to bend off after you pull the forms and the body of the strap stays in the concrete.

 

[supernova]

I wish they had CNC machines when I was a machinist.

Trust me, the cnc definitely makes the job easier, but so damned boring! I really enjoy the older le blonde & bridgeport & monarch work when I get the chance! I wish I had all the skill & know how u guys have.

 

[supernova]

Click on the link in my sig for the garage build....you will see how they did mine...

They also make these little straps just for that reason...if you have form boards stacked...the strap goes between the boards and you have a little wedge on the outside...if just one board, you nail it....

The end tabs are designed to bend off after you pull the forms and the body of the strap stays in the concrete.

I'm heading to bed for a little bit, but I'll get on the computer this afternoon & check it out, thanks ddawg.

 

[supernova]

Thanks dawg! Those are the best pictures of the forming I've seen. Question for ya. On those inside form support stakes, did they just cut them off at the floor after it set up and call it done? Did they run any rebar in the curb area?

 

[supernova]

Got my permit Friday, now the work begins! Took the vinyl siding off yday & started digging today. Working around the rain & the graveyard shift 6 days a week really limits my productivity. Had a buddy come over today and we pretty much have the area dug out, not leveled or footings, just squared out. Lucky enough to have a nice big root right where I'm going to have to dig out for the end side footing, yay! Probably as far as I'm gonna get today, more tomoro if I get a chance. I'll post some pics later from work, still have to get a photo bucket acct or something first, any suggestions on which ones the easiest to use with my Android?



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