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Just finished my LED install

ticklechicken

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Apr 25, 2016
Messages
110
Location
Florida
I installed LED's in part of my shop last night. It's a 24x25x10 partition (10' at walls, 13' at peak). I installed 16 fixtures with 2 LED bulbs in each. I went with 5000k. Thanks to the GJ experts for the recommendations, both for the equipment and the amount of light. Without this forum, I would have went with my gut feel of 8-12 fixtures instead of the 16 I ended up with. That wouldn't have been enough.

$12.50/fixture + $8/bulb x 2 = $28.50 per completed light
$0.76/square foot

2250 lumens x 32 / 600 sf = 120 lumens/sf
I know lumens/sf and foot candles aren't the same, but calculating lumens/sf is as far as most people will go in their lighting design. Therefore, I offer this as a guideline. I read somewhere on GJ that 100 lumens/sf is a good number for a garage. After my experience, I'd agree.
 
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mrpizza

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Nov 1, 2011
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IL
That seems like a lot of fixtures. I was going to put 14 in my garage, roughly 39x40, but has an 8x12 room sectioned off. Looks like I need more? I have 10' ceilings.
 
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ticklechicken

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Joined
Apr 25, 2016
Messages
110
Location
Florida
Lighting is definitely as much personal preference as it is defined rules. My wife and kids think my shop is too bright. However, I'm looking forward to always being able to see what I'm working on. Now that I've been in there a few nights, I would probably be okay with 12 fixtures instead of 16. I still prefer 16, but I'm trying to identify what I would consider a minimum amount of lighting.

For my shop:
16 fixtures - 120 lum/sf
12 fixtures - 90 lum/sf

I wouldn't go any less than 90 for well lighted work on small/medium items.

For your shop:
14 fixtures - 43 lum/sf
30 fixtures - 92 lum/sf
40 fixtures - 123 lum/sf

I was going through your exact decision a few months ago, and was also surprised at the number of fixtures that GJ suggested. I'm glad I listened.

If you do install 14, try to locate and wire them in a way that it's easy to add more later.
 

Tduby

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Apr 5, 2016
Messages
496
Location
Da U.P.
You can always put lights on separate switches I did that in my kitchen because sometimes I need to see well(***** getting old) and other time when I’m getting a snack at night I don’t want to be blinded.
 

cybrdyke

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Sep 9, 2014
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Lumens per square foot means nothing. It cant be used as a guideline or rule of thumb. Each light source is different, each fixture is different, each space is different. Lumens per square foot doesn't account for any of these, nor does it account for ceiling height, reflectances, luminaire efficiency, ballast or driver current, and a whole host of other factors. It's a totally useless figure.
I'm happy that you like the lighting in your garage. That's what it's all about. But if others find it offensive, it's probably way overlit.
CD
 
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ticklechicken

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2016
Messages
110
Location
Florida
Lumens per square foot means nothing. It cant be used as a guideline or rule of thumb. Each light source is different, each fixture is different, each space is different. Lumens per square foot doesn't account for any of these, nor does it account for ceiling height, reflectances, luminaire efficiency, ballast or driver current, and a whole host of other factors. It's a totally useless figure.
I'm happy that you like the lighting in your garage. That's what it's all about. But if others find it offensive, it's probably way overlit.
CD

I understand what you're saying, and I've recently learned about all the details you mentioned and modeling the space to determine the actual foot candles. I appreciate the science; however, my experience has shown me something more practical.

The fact is that every shop I've been in that has ~50 lum/sf seems dim. Any shop around ~100 lum/sf seems well lit. I think that experience can accurately be called a "rule of thumb". The majority of people here aren't willing to do the work you suggest and are looking for something that works under common circumstances. As long as you don't paint your walls black, I think lum/sf is exactly what they're looking for. It worked great for me.
 

cybrdyke

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Sep 9, 2014
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Location
USA
I understand what you're saying,
I dont think you do. If you did, you'd understand the folly of this sentence:

every shop I've been in that has ~50 lum/sf seems dim. Any shop around ~100 lum/sf seems well lit.
Not only is this technically false, it's also non-sensical.

I think that experience can accurately be called a "rule of thumb". The majority of people here aren't willing to do the work you suggest and are looking for something that works under common circumstances. As long as you don't paint your walls black, I think lum/sf is exactly what they're looking for. It worked great for me.

Completely disagree on all counts. (except the "worked great for me" part)
You're using bad information to create a rule of thumb that will mis-guide others.
Not speaking for others, but I believe the majority of the people want a good lighting job for their hard earned money, not an old wives tale. And what "work" are you talking about? It's easy to get a simple layout done.

Let me try to give you an example of why lumens per square foot doesn't work.....
You have a 1 foot by 1 foot room. You have a 100w light bulb. 100 lumens per square foot, right?

What if the ceiling was 10' high? 30' high? 50'? 500'? You'd still have 100 lumens/sq. ft. but you wouldn't have any footcandles, now would you?
What if the bulb had a lens to direct the light sideways? or up?
What if you had a lampshade? Or a diffuser?
What if the bulb was a fluorescent?
What if the bulb was an LED?
What if the ceiling was open? or silver?
What if the walls were white? Gray? Wood? Glossy? Matte?
What if the floor is carpet?
What if the room is filled with furniture or cabinets or cars or toolboxes?
What if your 100w bulb is in a strip fixture? a downlight? a highbay? a troffer? a flood light? a track head? Would that make any difference?


All of these things affect your foot candle levels. But you'd still have 100 lumens per square foot. It might be way too bright, or way too dim. But you'd still have 100 lumens per square foot.

I'm sorry for the overkill. Those are a lot of questions just to point out that you have NO idea how many of those "lumens" are getting to the target. In fact, most of the time you dont even really know how many lumens you have to start with.
Your family let you know how they feel. Just from looking at it, I'd tend to agree. My personal garage is 24x24 with a 9 foot ceiling. Very close in size to yours. I have 8 4000 lumen fixtures. Your 16 4500 lumen fixtures would blow my retinas out.
But you like yours and I like mine, so that's really the bottom line.
I'm really not trying to be a d**k, but lumens per square foot means absolutely nothing. Zero.
That's not an opinion.
CD
 
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cybrdyke

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Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Messages
3,444
Location
USA
Aaaaand we're off!

btw, I'm at 224 lumens/sqtft and love it!

Nah. It's all good on this forum.
I read and re-read my post, trying to make sure that I'm not being confrontational. I'm really not trying to be. I think it's OK.
CD
 
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