Just got my bid back...having some sticker shock

[CastleSeven]

I'm a complete noob when it comes to building and what it costs, so please bear with my ignorance here. I asked a local builder to bid a turn-key 30'x40' garage w/ attic trussing, insulated, and a 10' extension of the concrete pad off the back gable-end for a lean-to (half of which would house lawn equipment, the other half for a dog kennel).

I live in Southern Kentucky (Bowling Green), so I don't think the market is super high on the national average.

The total bid came in at $91k. Which comes to ~$75/sqft. I was expecting something in the $40 - $50/sqft range.

Scan of the bid is available here: http://imgur.com/enJ0by3. Can you experts comment on if anything seems crazy?

My wife and I are also interested in doing the finishing (drywall/insulation) after plumbing and electric are roughed-in, but with the costs itemized, it doesn't look like we're really save that much percentage wise.

We have another bid coming in in a week or so, so that'll give us some comparison.

There were a few oddities I didn't understand:

• Excavation/Grading - Here he has 250 8x16 blks @ 5.00, but then has a total of $1500 (which would put them @ $6.00 each. Not sure if typo on his part or a buffer...). I had assumed it would be a poured foundation, but I never explicitly mentioned this. Pros/Cons of monolithic vs block?
• Footers/Foundation - 200' @ $25 (knowing little about footers, I'm not sure where the 200' comes from, the perimeter of the pour would be 160', including the lean-to, so maybe buffer again?).
• Frame/Trim Materials - 4 windows, 1 entry door, #2 framing. He attached a quote from the lumber yard that came to $500 less than what he has as the total for this step. Buffer again?
• Brick - Sweet mercy brick is expensive. I wanted to do 3 sides worth of siding, but the wife thought all sides brick would be better. I wonder how much less only bricking the front would be?
• Carpentry Labor - I guess this would be the giant chunk I would save if I elected to frame it myself. Seems like a huge project to cut my teeth on
• Profit/Overhead - He has this listed as Misc Expenses, but it seems like there (might) be buffer built into each step?

 

[joed2323]

Is this bid the builder first job ever

I think he was trying to cover his **** on everything. What is your ground like, is it hilly or anything out of the ordinary?

Brick siding isnt the cheapest either so... I wonder if some of these builders see some of us guys with just dollar signs and think we are just plain suckers or what?

Im sure your next bid will come in alot cheaper

 

[Zeke]

"Turn key" can mean many things. If you like this guy, sit down and go over it line by line and ask him if he has any concerns about a certain phase. Guys w/o answers are to be avoided. OTOH, I have handed out many 'qualifiying' estimates which is to say I didn't spend a lot of time on them fine tuning the prices. If the customer was willing to sit down and talk about it, so was I. Usually ended up making some changes anyway and sometimes the bid actually went up. Most of the time there were areas to improve the cost on, though.

 

[mred03875]

I got a quote of 80k for an unfinished 30x50 weather tight shell two floors. For what it is worth I am not doing it seems about 20k high

 

[brownbagg]

you could get a metal bldg about 25k

 

[CastleSeven]

Is this bid the builder first job ever

I think he was trying to cover his **** on everything. What is your ground like, is it hilly or anything out of the ordinary?

Brick siding isnt the cheapest either so... I wonder if some of these builders see some of us guys with just dollar signs and think we are just plain suckers or what?

Im sure your next bid will come in alot cheaper

Thanks for the encouragement.

No, this guy has apparently been in the game a long time and had a good recommendation from some family friends.

Ground is what I would call perfect (remember, I'm a noob). Very flat.

 

[CastleSeven]

you could get a metal bldg about 25k

I was going to do that originally, which would be awesome. Unfortunately, the HoA says otherwise. It's gotta match the house construction and exterior.

 

[CastleSeven]

"Turn key" can mean many things. If you like this guy, sit down and go over it line by line and ask him if he has any concerns about a certain phase. Guys w/o answers are to be avoided. OTOH, I have handed out many 'qualifiying' estimates which is to say I didn't spend a lot of time on them fine tuning the prices. If the customer was willing to sit down and talk about it, so was I. Usually ended up making some changes anyway and sometimes the bid actually went up. Most of the time there were areas to improve the cost on, though.

Thanks Zeke. I've got one other bid in process, and just from my face-to-face discussions I liked the second guy (the bid I don't have yet) better. He was closer in age to me (I'm young), which might have been why I subconsciously liked him more, and his firm has done a lot of good work here in town. I asked for the moon and will probably have to sit down with either of them to reach a number I can live with. $90k just seemed super high.

 

[dirttracker18]

FWIW

I built my 30 x 36 myself except for the foundation and I was in for $42k.

Turn key at $90 is a lot of money but not out of line IMHO. there will be cost savings to be had so get some quotes and ask questions.

 

[Zeke]

You won't be a noob when you get done. I've heard many people say that people will have one custom home built and never again. If so, they do the contracting themselves. I wouldn't hurt to buy a book or two. I'm serious. There was a time when I didn't know jack **** about building and I wanted to. Not being a family business, I had a long way to go starting from bone scratch.

First thing I did was find a house being built. I went there every day after work and looked around at what was done that day. Had digie cameras been around in those days that would have helped a lot. I went to that job on Saturdays and got to know some of the trades guys. Many work Sats. Beer helped make some friends and I ended up using some of these guys when I started out. And since they tended to know each other, they sorta looked out for the next guy. Not that way so much these days.

Still, I have a hard time believing that all trades people are jerks. I think they can be and are definitely freer spirits, but they basically do their job because that's what they like to do. Let them like their job and they tend to do a good one.

 

[Pooch897]

Couldn't you shingle and side a pole building to match the house . It might save some money.


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[NUTTSGT]

Your bid is exactly why I do stuff myself.

Concrete, yes it takes some skills to finish it but your 30x40 plus the extra 10' (40x40?)at 6" thick (overkill) is 30 yards. At $100/yd, that comes out to about 3 grand, add more if they are putting in rebar or wire, but you start to see where the profits come in.

Electrical ? $4100, Depending how far the service needs run from your house, I'd bet a grand would cover materials.

The concrete block, are you getting charge $5/block ? Seriously ? If that included block and laying it, maybe but he also lists 2 days @850/day.

I think the guy is planning on making some serious cash from you. Does he know it's an HOA ? I bet he does and you said turn key, he's seeing dollar signs.

If I were you, I'd learn to start doing stuff yourself, not trying to insult you, but you will get soooooo much more for your money.

Sure, there will be a few things that you might have to hire out but my god, 91 grand for a 30x40, wow, sticker shock yes.

 

[SALIV8]

Rule of thumb- always get 3 reputable estimates minimum..

 

[Chitown_hillbilly]

I know it's tough to compare but I'll toss mine out for comparison.

30x40 with a 8x16 lean to porch area. Three 9x8 garage doors. Bid from a stick built garage builder with a thickened edge slab, 100 amp electric service, but no plumbing, insulation or interior finish was right at $40k (39 and change).

I ended up going with a Pole barn instead, $13,500 erected, I prepped for the slab myself and paid someone to pour and finish it, $4200, traded for electrical work, have insulated and finished the walls, still need to do ceiling, but I'll be well under $25k.

 

[Notgrownup]

90k seems bit high....that's a price of a 1200 square feet house around here....nice garage. I would hop around

 

[CastleSeven]

I wouldn't hurt to buy a book or two.

I spent some cash on several books (Visual Handbook of Framing and Remodeling, A Black and Decker Guide to Garages, Frame Construction, Understanding Residential Code, etc). They seem extremely helpful from a specific perspective, I guess it's just the overall process that has me nervous about doing it myself. My father-in-law is a very skilled handyman and would help with the build, but what scared me away from the DIY aspect was not understanding the process. A lot of it actually is trepidation on how to even get started with plans (both site and building) so I can even get a building permit. But if all the bids come back at $90k I may be forced to undergo a trial by fire.

 

[CastleSeven]

Couldn't you shingle and side a pole building to match the house . It might save some money.

Hmm, I hadn't considered a pole barn. Do you have any favorite references on them and what goes into their construction? What VERY little I've learned has all been about stick framing.

 

[CastleSeven]

I think the guy is planning on making some serious cash from you. Does he know it's an HOA ? I bet he does and you said turn key, he's seeing dollar signs.

If I were you, I'd learn to start doing stuff yourself, not trying to insult you, but you will get soooooo much more for your money.

Sure, there will be a few things that you might have to hire out but my god, 91 grand for a 30x40, wow, sticker shock yes.

At first I felt stupid for being shocked at the price, so thanks for pointing out some of it's tripping points.

No insult taken, I had heavily planned to do the framing and finishing myself and maybe let someone else handle the concrete and roofing, but I found myself stuck at even getting a building/site plan together for the permit. That's when I figured I'd see what it would cost to get someone else to do it. I might find myself drifting back to the DIY route.

 

[Zeke]

I spent some cash on several books (Visual Handbook of Framing and Remodeling, A Black and Decker Guide to Garages, Frame Construction, Understanding Residential Code, etc). They seem extremely helpful from a specific perspective, I guess it's just the overall process that has me nervous about doing it myself. My father-in-law is a very skilled handyman and would help with the build, but what scared me away from the DIY aspect was not understanding the process. A lot of it actually is trepidation on how to even get started with plans (both site and building) so I can even get a building permit. But if all the bids come back at $90k I may be forced to undergo a trial by fire.

Look at Tounton Press. I saw this one but I think they have several.

 

[CastleSeven]

I know it's tough to compare but I'll toss mine out for comparison.

30x40 with a 8x16 lean to porch area. Three 9x8 garage doors. Bid from a stick built garage builder with a thickened edge slab, 100 amp electric service, but no plumbing, insulation or interior finish was right at $40k (39 and change).

I ended up going with a Pole barn instead, $13,500 erected, I prepped for the slab myself and paid someone to pour and finish it, $4200, traded for electrical work, have insulated and finished the walls, still need to do ceiling, but I'll be well under $25k.

WOW! Maybe I need to look into a pole barn. Even the stick built one at $40k would be at least closer to my budget.

 

[CastleSeven]

Look at Tounton Press. I saw this one but I think they have several.

Yea!! I actually have 2 Taunton books, this one and this one. Both appear very easy to digest. Thanks for the tip!

 

[CastleSeven]

Rule of thumb- always get 3 reputable estimates minimum..

Good to know, looks like I need 1 more.

 

[nicksnothereman]

5500 profit on a 90k building. He must be running a charity! (Seems like the guy is hosing you man)

 

[BellyUpFish]

30x40 in Alabama with an upstairs for storage with stairs included is $45,000..

 

[Chitown_hillbilly]

WOW! Maybe I need to look into a pole barn. Even the stick built one at $40k would be at least closer to my budget.

Yea but we're not exactly comparing apples to apples. You have quite a few expensive upgrades. Your foundation and slab are more costly, brick siding, plumbing. I think $90K is excessive, but $60k wouldn't surprise me much.

My only suggestion, when you start adjusting things for budget, don't give up on size or height. If you don't do it now you'll be pissed you didn't get the biggest thing you can afford later.

 

[ebasista]

PM me your email. What part of Bowling Green are you in? (I'm on the south side in Hidden River). I just had a garage built a few years ago and he did a great job.

The brick is running the cost up a bit, but I'd expect something like that to be ~60K in our area all trimmed out. 30x40 should require a zoning variance in Warren county depending on where you live.

 

[zcar751]

With out seeing your property, current home, plans for the garage, roofing, electrical work, plumbing, or know the COL for Bowling Green it is kind of hard to say is it too much. For me it would be too much unless I was turning it into a business but if you look through this form there as some that probably have several hundreds of thousand in there garages.

I have a friend in Houston that put in a 26x40 single story with 12 foot ceilings to match his home (because of HOA) and he had over 100k invested. Houston is one of the cheapest places in the country, but he has a really nice garage. So it is difficult to say over the interweb.

 

[jmiller_2308]

What other "upgraded" finishes do you have besides the brick? Upgraded shingles, windows, doors, openers, etc. How much electric; a few outlets or a sub-panel with lots of circuits. How high are the walls? Any special concrete work such as extra strength, mesh, special finish?

The estimate lacks a bunch of details but with upgraded materials, finishes, and the GC doing everything I think you are actually about right.

Every locale is different but here in MN on the far edge of the cities I too was shocked when I started getting estimates for a garage addition of about 900 sqft. Some of those estimates were as high as $120/sqft for just a shell but the shell had stucco, banding, a premium roof, and a $2500 door.

The $120/sqft guy was off his rocker but as I got more bids they tended to be closer to $60/sqft for the shell and me doing all the electric, sheetrock, painting, etc.

 

[JakeKohl]

I built a 24x36 with a full second story and got several bids on getting it "in the dry" (framed, exterior siding, roof, windows, doors, and a good bit of concrete around it). I had bids from $42,000 to$70,000 and $90,000 for the same work. The $42,000 guy seemed pretty good and specialized on building garages. I was a little hesitant to go with the lowest bid but the $70,000 guy drove a rusted beat up Ford Ranger with no exhaust, and the $90,000 guy was apparently crazy if he thought I was going to pay that much (he was marking up lumber by 6 or 7 times cost)...so I went with the $42,000 guy. He actually did a nice job.

I did my own electrical, networking (upstairs is an office with 18 ethernet outlets), HVAC, flooring, lighting, cabinets, and some of the plumbing. I hired out the insulation, sheet rock, most of the plumbing, and painting. (Trust me, it doesn't pay to do sheet rock yourself...it takes forever and you just don't save that much money vs. paying someone to get it done that knows what they are doing). I handled all of the post-rough framing county inspections as well (and that required a bit of time). All said, I put another $38-$42k in it to get a finished building and had about $90k in it total for about $50/sq ft.

I would say that this proposal isn't that far out of line particularly when you factor in the brick siding (I had vinyl all the way around). It's definitely worth getting some other bids, though.

 

[rust buster]

as a reference point, here in Virginia, my 30x40 stick framed shop with a lot of fancy engineered concrete foundation work (built on a slope) was $32K and that did not include insulation, wiring, or interior trim. I did all of that. It did include metal roof, vinyl siding, a 16x9' door and a 9x9 door. No windows. Structure was 2x6 with roof trusses.

 

[38Chevy454]

Bid does seem a bit high, but you also are getting everything. Do some of the work yourself and you can save a bit. For instance, get the slab and building completed for exterior by contractor. Then finish inside yourself, including running the electrical and all of the wall surfaces.

Brick is going to really drive your costs, takes a lot of labor to put brick on, plus the expense of the brick itself. Does your HOA rules require it has to be brick? Can you use siding or stucco for example? Or maybe just brick the front facing the street and other finish for the remaining sides? I know the extra attic truss storage is nice, but it also drives some cost.

I built mine about same total size approx 4 years ago and I did all the interior work myself. I am into mine about $40-45/sq ft of which the contractor cost for the basic building was about $30/sq ft. I do not have water, just electric ran to the shop.

 

[skyking]

We are not supposed to use profanity on this forum...................."HOA "is profanity !!!!!

 

[WhiffySpark]

Your bid is exactly why I do stuff myself.

Concrete, yes it takes some skills to finish it but your 30x40 plus the extra 10' (40x40?)at 6" thick (overkill) is 30 yards. At $100/yd, that comes out to about 3 grand, add more if they are putting in rebar or wire, but you start to see where the profits come in.

Electrical ? $4100, Depending how far the service needs run from your house, I'd bet a grand would cover materials.

The concrete block, are you getting charge $5/block ? Seriously ? If that included block and laying it, maybe but he also lists 2 days @850/day.

I think the guy is planning on making some serious cash from you. Does he know it's an HOA ? I bet he does and you said turn key, he's seeing dollar signs.

If I were you, I'd learn to start doing stuff yourself, not trying to insult you, but you will get soooooo much more for your money.

Sure, there will be a few things that you might have to hire out but my god, 91 grand for a 30x40, wow, sticker shock yes.

I guess all contractors should work for free?

This is exactly why I don't itemize things. He may have "padded" numbers on one thing. But have you lower numbers on another thing. You don't know

And yeah 3 faces of brick is running cost up