Just got screwed...

[pault28]

Recently, I bought a set of Metric Craftsman Flex Head ratcheting wrenches from an ebay seller. I had previously bought from this seller once before with no issues whatsoever. It was a buy it now with a flat rate shipping from the seller. I paid 80.99 for the 7pc set including shipping.

Today with my USPS mail, I reveive an envelope from him with the end completely torn and no contents...that's right, it was empty. I contacted the seller just to notify that I received an empty envelope. He immediately gets defensive and tells me to be ethical and honest. He basically assumes I am pulling a fast one. He also writes that if USPS delivers a damaged package, they are supposed to leave a note too that it was damaged in shipping. I received no such note. He says that those priority mail envelopes...the tyvek looking ones are far to strong to have gotten ripped. He also says that if it was so bad, I shouldn't have accepted it. It was delivered with the regular mail though and I did not have a chance to not accept it. I am going to talk to the post office on Monday to see what I can do. I may have to open up a dispute and claim through ebay/paypal. What does one do? Has anyone ever had this happen to them and had to deal with the USPS or ebay/paypal?
I'm worried I will b e out my money and without the wrenches.

For what it is worth he said the wrenches were inside an envelope, then in another envelope...both those tyvek looking USPS priority envelopes. He did not include the craftsman packaging to save on shipping which I did not question. Also, it was in with the rest of the mail in the mail chute in the house so I do not suspect and foul play post delivery by a thief.

 

[jay50]

Hmmm......So, how do you like those Cman flex-head ratchets???

 

[Catalyze]

I am sorry for your situation. The Post Office has implemented a new army of Flat Sorting machines that are supposed to delivery sequence the flats (magazine...newspapers....large envelopes) for the carrier. He won't even see that flat until he gets out on his route and it pops up as the next delivery. Perhaps it got bitten by a flat sorter. I would still go down the PayPal road and get my money back. Sellers can buy insurance for not too much but it's still not your fault. Get your money back and Good Luck!
Craig

 

[american lockpicker]

Once USPS nicked a few bottles of HP sauce and they left a note saying it had been damaged(yet the envelope had been neatly cut open and no sign of brown sauce on the package...)

 

[pault28]

I wish i had them. Come on, i didn't steal them. I'm looking for advice. As a 100% positive feedback for 113 transactions as both a buyer and seller, i would not try to screw a seller. I'm bummed because i cant even find another matching set on ebay to buy if i get a refund back.

 

[pault28]

I will go to the post office first just with my fingers crossed hoping and praying that it was found, but if I have no luck there I will be forced to pursue ebay/paypal.

 

[trout]

they used to put damaged packages in a big envelope with a note, but either that stopped doing that or the envelopes they used don't hold too much.

I recently received a damaged packaging too, screw drivers, but luckily whoever saw it at the post office taped it back up with tape that said "sorry" on it and put everything back in. No note or anything else like they used to.

I would go to the post office and see if you can file a report, complaint, whatever and send a copy to the seller. If he didn't get insurance or still doesn't want to work with you open a Paypal dispute as soon as he says tough luck.

 

[rodm1]

He is being an a$$ sow I would get a charge back from the credit card company. He is responsible for the shipment.

I had a ratchet that ended up the same way and the seller refunded me completely.In any case it's his responsibility the fill the clam.

 

[Tom2]

That's pretty careless of the postal carrier not to have put a damaged sticker on them.. I would definitely talk with your post office. Theres no reason the carrier shouldn't have put a sticker on it. That would have made it easier to prove you recieved it damaged.

I'd check with the post office first, then I don't know where to go. Tell him you're going to go ahead and file a paypal/ebay claim and see what he does. Technically he did his job by shipping them, but did a crappy job packaging.

I can't believe people ship metal tools in envelopes..If you're going to do that you at least need to tape the ENTIRE envelope with a good quality clear tape.

 

[eborcim]

looks like the seller did a poor job of packaging. Start with the post office and hopefully there was shipping insurance.

 

[Toolhorder]

Ebay rules state the item must get to you, damage is shipping is the seller's problem and that's what insurance is for. If anyone's about to be screwed it's the seller when he gets charged back for the wrenches.

 

[rapyoke]

It is not your responsibility at all, for him to suggest that is completely absurd. He should have packaged better or gotten insurance.

 

[Borrego]

This should be a cautionary tale for those who ship with USPS. A small fraction of packages and boxes reach their destination without any or with partial contents. I have read other threads on this site, just different tools.
Tools were in package when mailed, but not in package when received. Most probable, contents were lost while being processed by USPS. If address was on envelope which was inside larger envelope, tools would have made it to your door.
Sad to say it, but Postal employee could have pocketed them. USPS is only a cross section of society. Dishonest people willing to risk their career over a few extra bucks is a reality, however small it may be.
I would strongly suggest the OP contact his local post office early Monday morning for a couple of reasons. Probably not going to bring the tools back, though.
1) Get the ball rolling and try to backtrack what went wrong where. First person they are going to talk to is the mail carrier who delivered the package. If I am a letter carrier and I deliver an empty envelope, I am going to make darn sure I let someone know - a supervisor or even the customer if he is home. If I notice the envelope is empty, I am going to do that before I leave the office and start delivering mail.
2) If someone has opened the envelope and taken the tools, probably not the first time it has happened. Enough complaints traced back to the same person / area and they are going to start watching that person. Might even put a hidden camera on them. Not going to bring your tools back, but may save someone else from being taken advantage of.
3) If you speak to anyone at the post office, get their name. Be firm and respectful, letting them know tools disappeared while in their care, custody and control. If the letter carrier who delivered the envelope is working Monday, no reason at all you should not have a preliminary response by the afternoon.

Of course, this is all dependant upon receiving the envelope empty. If the envelope was sticking out of your mail chute and someone came along, tore it open and took the tools, it is not a post office issue. It is a police issue (theft).

 

[scott37300]

Ebay has so many dishonest people it's hard to be a seller or a buyer so it's understandable if a seller gets defensive, but he shouldn't have an attitude. I received a box ripped open with a SO 3/8" ratchet missing and it had a note on the box. I emailed the seller a picture of it and they refunded my money right away. I understand the seller being defensive because it's easy to screw sellers over on ebay. But he shouldn't be saying you are dishonest and unethical. I wouldn't even waste your time at the post office. The simple fact is the seller is going to be forced to refund your money. I would email the seller one more time explaining that you didn't receive them and if he insured the package you would be willing to help file a claim with the USPS. It is his responsibility to deliver the items you bought. If he states that you didn't pay extra for insurance don't listen to him. Once again he has to pay for insurance, insurance only benefits the seller because he has to make sure the items get to you. If he keeps the attitude up don't even respond, just file a claim with paypal and you WILL get your money back. It's an open and shut case.

 

[Skin]

I'm going to rant at no one in particular.

People need to stop being penny pinching cheapskates. Putting those wrenches into a flat rate box would of cost him a couple dollars more and would not have resulted in that. Any seller who stuffs heavy tools into bags for shipping is a damn idiot.

And no Borrego, i seriously doubt USPS employees are rampently tearing open packages and stealing tools. This is the third such thread in the last few weeks and i myself had a recent occurance with UPS where the same thing happened. Giant hole in a bubble mailer taped over, no tools inside. No mention from the driver about asking to check contents even though it was clearly empty. I dont fully blame any shipper where this happens, except where its their job to make note of a damaged package, and place the entire blame on the shippers. There is ZERO excuse to ship a heavy ratchet, socket sets, or combo wrenches as in this case, stuck in a bag. And despite what this particular seller may think tearing a hole in those bags is very very easy. Its called mass and velocity and heavy objects have a lot more of it when they're flying down a mail chute at the sorting centers.

Moral of this rant is to not cheap out, to spend the extra buck or two, and stick heavy objects into those free boxes supplied by your post office. At least when those are torn entirely apart you know it was the shippers fault. Hope that seller got insurance but i'd absolutely hold them responsible for that piss poor packaging as opposed to placing blame on what might of happened in an imaginary scenerio after the fact.

 

[Skin]

i had someone send me some things in small poster tubes once. Very good idea, the whole package was like a tank.

 

[sparky7]

someone probably stole them out of your mailbox man. Did these get sent to a mailbox or a P.O. box?

 

[Skin]

If you're going to steel someones package, you do that, steel the package. You dont go up to the mail box and take the time to cut it open, remove the contents, and put the original mailer back.

 

[canuckian]

received a package in a small flat rate international box a few weeks ago where the sender put the tools in a bubble envelope and then taped that to the inside of the box with heavy packing tape and then filled the rest of the box with foam popcorn. The flat rate box was completely taped up with the same heavy clear packing tape. That package could have survived nuclear fallout!!!

I think the key to shipping tools is to wrap them up to cover the sharp edges before putting them inside the exterior packaging and also stuff the box to minimize movement.

to the OP.....file the dispute/claim and get your money back. it's not yoru fault that the seller doesn't know how to pack tools properly.

 

[JSBriggs]

People find my packing excessive. Ratchet first warped in a TYVEK bag then a cardboard box no thicker than the ratchet. After taping the box nice and secure another TYVEK bag. Then one or two of the standard flat rate envelopes and last two of the Priority Mail Flat Rate Padded Envelopes. It takes all of five minutes.

As someone who has bought from you, I was very impressed with your packing. I wouldnt say excessive. Not that you skimp at all, but I would rather have it the way you packed it with out insurance, than the package in this post with insurance. Just because insurance was purchased, doesnt mean the claim process is easy.

-Jeff

 

[nate379]

Insurance is a crock of **** on it's own.

If the carrier can't deliver it, then they haven't completed their job.

It would be like paying a mechanic to "maybe" fix my car but if I buy insurance he would for sure fix it.


I shipped part of a missile test set through FedEx once a few years ago. It was broken and going to the contractor for repairs. Next day air. Well after a week they still hadn't received it.
I called customer service and they gave me the run around until I let them know that it was military property and had $25,000 of insurance on it. Literally a few hours later the package was delivered.

 

[Toolhorder]

This should be a cautionary tale for those who ship with USPS. A small fraction of packages and boxes reach their destination without any or with partial contents. I have read other threads on this site, just different tools.
Tools were in package when mailed, but not in package when received. Most probable, contents were lost while being processed by USPS. If address was on envelope which was inside larger envelope, tools would have made it to your door.
Sad to say it, but Postal employee could have pocketed them. USPS is only a cross section of society. Dishonest people willing to risk their career over a few extra bucks is a reality, however small it may be.
I would strongly suggest the OP contact his local post office early Monday morning for a couple of reasons. Probably not going to bring the tools back, though.
1) Get the ball rolling and try to backtrack what went wrong where. First person they are going to talk to is the mail carrier who delivered the package. If I am a letter carrier and I deliver an empty envelope, I am going to make darn sure I let someone know - a supervisor or even the customer if he is home. If I notice the envelope is empty, I am going to do that before I leave the office and start delivering mail.
2) If someone has opened the envelope and taken the tools, probably not the first time it has happened. Enough complaints traced back to the same person / area and they are going to start watching that person. Might even put a hidden camera on them. Not going to bring your tools back, but may save someone else from being taken advantage of.
3) If you speak to anyone at the post office, get their name. Be firm and respectful, letting them know tools disappeared while in their care, custody and control. If the letter carrier who delivered the envelope is working Monday, no reason at all you should not have a preliminary response by the afternoon.

Of course, this is all dependant upon receiving the envelope empty. If the envelope was sticking out of your mail chute and someone came along, tore it open and took the tools, it is not a post office issue. It is a police issue (theft).

The buyer has no obligition to do any of your suggestions. Contact Paypal and Ebay and file a complaint. Done deal

 

[Toolhorder]

Insurance is a crock of **** on it's own.

If the carrier can't deliver it, then they haven't completed their job.

It would be like paying a mechanic to "maybe" fix my car but if I buy insurance he would for sure fix it.


I shipped part of a missile test set through FedEx once a few years ago. It was broken and going to the contractor for repairs. Next day air. Well after a week they still hadn't received it.
I called customer service and they gave me the run around until I let them know that it was military property and had $25,000 of insurance on it. Literally a few hours later the package was delivered.

I agree! Insurance is a crock,
I think I'll start offering it to my customers too. For an extra 1.65 I'll insure you'll actually get that oil change I'm writing your car up for. What do you say?

 

[Techniker]

looks like the seller did a poor job of packaging. Start with the post office and hopefully there was shipping insurance.

I mean look at that thing- he shipped wrenches in that?! Why not just package in tracing paper while we're at it. That stuff should have easily fit in a nice (relatively) secure flat-rate box.

 

[Rickster]

Sad to say it, but Postal employee could have pocketed them.

Yes, they took them. Look at the package, they ripped it open and took them. I've had one ratchet not make it to it's destination and it's because I had it wedged in tight in a small flat rate box and I mistakenly thought it was secure. They cut open the corner and stole the larger ratchet. They didn't get the smaller 3/8 dr because I had tie-wrapped it down to a backer board. You have to secure everything you ship to a backer board to make it hard for them to steal. I've had a pic of a package sent to me that shows where the package was ripped open but all the tools arrived because they were secured to a backer board that made it too difficult to steal it without being noticed. They're opportunists and if you make it easy to steal it, they probably will.

 

[Jeff]

He immediately gets defensive and tells me to be ethical and honest. He basically assumes I am pulling a fast one.

I wouldn't bother with USPS. File claims with eBay and PayPal.

Normally I would try to work it out with the seller, but if he is going to act like a douche then he needs to get smacked like a douche.

 

[johnnybentwrench]

I mean look at that thing- he shipped wrenches in that?! Why not just package in tracing paper while we're at it. That stuff should have easily fit in a nice (relatively) secure flat-rate box.

That packing is a joke. Tell the seller That if you and he can not work it out that you will let ebay. Contact ebay and pay pal and start a claim

 

[honcho]

While many Ebay sellers offer insurance at the buyer's expense, there's no need for buyers to purchase any insurance as Ebay makes it quite clear that the seller is on the hook until the goods are delivered to the buyer. Paypal seller protections don't apply unless you ship to the confirmed address and, if over $250, obtain a signature for the delivery. Insurance is not for the buyer, it is for the seller. The buyer is going to get his money back so the seller better just **** it up.

Both sears and amazon have sent me tool shipments where tools have found there way out of the package in transit. Sears is bad in that they'll just throw wrenches in with nothing more than packing peanuts.

I'm in the process of packing a heavy shipment of an item sold on Ebay and I went and got a strapping machine so the whole package has a chance of arriving intact.

 

[lametec]

I can't believe people ship metal tools in envelopes..

Not only tools, but 1/2" capacity drill chucks.. That one arrived as an empty paper envelope.

 

[SMKS]

He also writes that if USPS delivers a damaged package, they are supposed to leave a note too that it was damaged in shipping. I received no such note.

Nope, they don't always leave a note. I've received quite a few damaged packages (due to poor packaging, mostly), and only one had a sticker that read "damaged" or something similar.

He says that those priority mail envelopes...the tyvek looking ones are far to strong to have gotten ripped. He also says that if it was so bad, I shouldn't have accepted it.

Total BS. They're not tyvek, they're just paper. I had the exact same thing happen to me a few weeks ago.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92302


If he is being a **** about it, you'll have to file an ebay dispute. I think you'll have to file under Item Not As Described. Tell them he sent you an empty envelope, not a wrench set. You'll probably have to send the envelope back to him, but you should only be out a few dollars instead of $80.

I don't think you can file an Item Not Received dispute, because the tracking number will show that it was delivered.

Good luck.

 

[SMKS]

I would strongly suggest the OP contact his local post office early Monday morning for a couple of reasons. Probably not going to bring the tools back, though.

Have you ever contacted the local post office about something like this? I have. I lost a ratchet several weeks ago. Basically, all you can do is fill out a form and hope the ratchet turns up at the central office where all lost items are sent.

I doubt it was stolen. It probably ripped through the package in a sorting machine.

I've received multiple damaged packages, and usually the USPS workers took extra steps to make sure the item wasn't lost. I've had packages where postal workers had taped them back up or put rubber bands on the package to hold it shut.

 

[scott37300]

Wonder what happens to all the items that fall out of packaging at the USPS? That is the ones the workers don't get to take home.

 

[jay50]

Wonder what happens to all the items that fall out of packaging at the USPS? That is the ones the workers don't get to take home.

It is turned over to the local postmaster and he of course "keeps it secured" in his desk drawer until someone claims it.

 

[treasureseeker]

The paper is torn outward which to me means the item was just too heavy for the Flat Rate Padded Envelope which will tear if you push on it. When I use them it is over a standard (thin cardboard) Flat Rate Envelope and lot of reinforcement inside the standard Envelope. The padded ones are made for light weight items. Until sellers on eBay learn to pack them properly and choose a box instead if needed this will keep on happening.

 

[wornoutoldman]

That seller screwed himself. You will get a refund for sure. Unfortunately when seling you need to insure the package for twice the value since you wil be refunding the purchase price and unless you double the value your out the item as well.

 

[rhastings80]

The item was not packed well. If the seller is going to be a **** just file a claim with E-Bay and you will get your money back. Then leave him bad feedback as well. It's not your problem. This has happened to me before as well. I wouldn't waste your time with the post office. I'm pretty sure too the seller has to start a claim anyways with the shipper if there was insurance.

 

[treasureseeker]

I can’t see the post office covering this item if insurance was bought, packed like that. No doubt the OP will get a refund if a claim is made.

 

[SMKS]

It is turned over to the local postmaster and he of course "keeps it secured" in his desk drawer until someone claims it.

When an item fell out of one of my packages I called the local post office. They told me all items that are lost are sent to a facility in Atlanta. I filled out a form which is then sent to the facility. They try to match up lost items and descriptions.

I gave a good description of the item with part number and even a picture. Still, I consider it a lost cause.

 

[Chadro]

I truly wonder how much **** gets stolen every year by postal employees. One of my best friends back in Ga was a rural route carrier and he had some stories about our quality postal employees. One guy got 3 warnings about ****** harassment (groping fellow employee) and still had his job.

The US postal employees are a lot like Mason's, you have to know one to be one. If you don't know somebody, you will have to jump through all the hiring hoops and tests and you still probably won't get hired. Wife put in an app., said friend talked to supervisor and she was at orientation 2 weeks later. They told them they could take the civil service test and all the other **** later. They asked all 7 folks at orientation if they knew any employees and they all raised their hands lol. She ended up turning them down to take a County job and I'm glad she did.

Anyways, that was a little off topic. Rant over.

 

[Danglerb]

I'd blame automated postal machinery before actual theft, but USPS I'm sure has flaws from one end to the other.

I've been to government auctions that included customs seizures and pretty sure unclaimed postal stuff, so it doesn't go in a drawer, it goes to some central processing location and either gets identified and delivered, or sold at auction.

USPS is savvy on insurance, you will not get double value, you might get actual cost less shipping with proof of purchase.

Be careful which box you check with ebay claims, but dump it back in the sellers lap.