toddoky
Well-known member
A name change to Fistool might be appropriate.
Just ordered a few Festool sanders...
- Thread starter cgrutt
- Start date
Bosch uses 8-hole sandpaper...
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Festool uses 17-hole sandpaper...
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My Mirka has too many holes for me to count, and keep in mind, the Abranet sandpaper is basically mesh. (which is also used on the Bosch)
Here is what the backing pad looks like:
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Congrats on your purchase. Seems like you have done your research and have the coin to drop on Festool, which is great. Festool is a system, they were one of the first, and likely still one of the best. Its all integrated, sorted out, and works well, a winning combo worth paying for.
That said, Festool has been copied, out designed, and outpriced over the last decade. You can find tools that perform as well or better for less money. But again, Festool is a system where most of their lineup performs very well.
If I had the coin I would likely just go all Festool as well, but I dont, not just for monetary reasons, but also my quest for the best overall.
BTW, the Bosch 1250DEVS "turbo" mode is a true rotary function, and boy does it take off material.
As for Festool abrasives, some of the specialized material ones are good, but Abranet w/ universal backing pad (cheaper and more flow then Festool) is a excellent combo.
That said, Festool has been copied, out designed, and outpriced over the last decade. You can find tools that perform as well or better for less money. But again, Festool is a system where most of their lineup performs very well.
If I had the coin I would likely just go all Festool as well, but I dont, not just for monetary reasons, but also my quest for the best overall.
BTW, the Bosch 1250DEVS "turbo" mode is a true rotary function, and boy does it take off material.
As for Festool abrasives, some of the specialized material ones are good, but Abranet w/ universal backing pad (cheaper and more flow then Festool) is a excellent combo.
Thanks for info! As far as "having the coin"... never been worse off in my entire life but that's another story... I'm in midst of transitioning careers and consider it an investment in my future. No doubt there are other brands/products that are as good or better. I just wanted to give these a shot and see how they worked.
I have used a Mirka with both a transformer and the newer integrated controller with a Festool Vac and it turns on just fine.
Cool. Just wasn't sure if the vac would sense sander turning on with the transformer sitting in between. Thanks!
acer66
Well-known member
I googled that and if that is one about the $1k TS55 track saw tear down I can only say save the time for something useful since the title alone shows you what to expect.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
One of the "premiere" boat builder on YouTube (Mads on Sail Life) calls the EU version of this sander his "all time favorite" sander !
BTW, this guy does AWESOME work. A bit **** retentive, but the results are beautiful !
BTW, this guy does AWESOME work. A bit **** retentive, but the results are beautiful !
One of the "premiere" boat builder on YouTube (Mads on Sail Life) calls the EU version of this sander his "all time favorite" sander !
BTW, this guy does AWESOME work. A bit **** retentive, but the results are beautiful !
Seems he should put it to use on the companionway hatch boards lol...
dnschmidt
Well-known member
I have two of the dual action Bosch's. I use one for polishing and the other for sanding. The major problem with these is that in forced rotation mode they really put a strain on you. I never use these without vibration dampening gloves. Would not even consider doing so for hours a day without them. These tools are beasts, that's for sure, but they will wear you out. The Rotex and the Makita versions of this tool are little different from the Bosch.
LeeG
Well-known member
If you are looking for a good, easy way to store the sandpaper, try this.
View media item 90426
Using these in a SYS-III systainer.
The dividers are made by Tanos and sold through Woodcraft. Tanos makes the Systainers for Festool and others.
I have been pretty pleased with this setup for my 150mm abrasives. Works much better than the insert Festool sells.
View media item 90426
Using these in a SYS-III systainer.
The dividers are made by Tanos and sold through Woodcraft. Tanos makes the Systainers for Festool and others.
I have been pretty pleased with this setup for my 150mm abrasives. Works much better than the insert Festool sells.
If you are looking for a good, easy way to store the sandpaper, try this.
View media item 90426
Using these in a SYS-III systainer.
The dividers are made by Tanos and sold through Woodcraft. Tanos makes the Systainers for Festool and others.
I have been pretty pleased with this setup for my 150mm abrasives. Works much better than the insert Festool sells.
Thanks! Will definitely look into those. Need to buy a few more of the Systainers.
acer66
Well-known member
If you are looking for a good, easy way to store the sandpaper, try this.
View media item 90426
Using these in a SYS-III systainer.
The dividers are made by Tanos and sold through Woodcraft. Tanos makes the Systainers for Festool and others.
I have been pretty pleased with this setup for my 150mm abrasives. Works much better than the insert Festool sells.
Nice, thanks for sharing.
So now you've got me looking at the Mafell track saw. Looks awesome. Anybody use this over Festool? Seems to have a lot of better features including fully enclosed blade (safety and dust collection), better power, thinner kerf, cut line adjusts with angle of blade, etc.
What's your current and anticipated future use here? If you're buying this for average home remodeling, say nothing of a single home, you're just ******* money away. I work commercial construction and worked residential, and looked at Festool for several tools before deciding against them. Was seriously considering their impact once upon a time but the torque just wasn't there, esp for the price. I went with Metabo, also made in Germany (mostly) and am happy with them. They take a beating and rarely fail.
My $50 Milwaukee sander, and $65 (Craigslist) 18 gal Shop Vac with bag and filter clean the dust just fine.
The whole tool fanboy thing, for any brand, is kinda gay. I have mostly Metabo cordless due to batteries, but beyond that, most manufacturers are better at certain tools than others. Why do you even need a track saw? If you're not planning on using it thousands of times to recoup the time-cost, just buy a piece of angle iron or aluminum and a couple $2 quick clamps at Harbor Freight and go to town. If you're on one site for any length of time, just use a table saw.
The only time I've ever seen Festool on a site and thought "OK, these guys actually need it" was on a $30 million home in Boston, custom, elaborate staircase and that's all these guys did. Almost every other time I've seen it, outside Youtube woodworking vids, it's a status symbol sitting unused in a box. My tools are dirty and not so photogenic from their hard-working life, but they still pay the bills and they've built some of the most impressive glass and aluminum structures on the east coast, no totes needed.
So yea, Festool has it's place, it just doesn't sound like it's necessarily in your home remodel.
My $50 Milwaukee sander, and $65 (Craigslist) 18 gal Shop Vac with bag and filter clean the dust just fine.
The whole tool fanboy thing, for any brand, is kinda gay. I have mostly Metabo cordless due to batteries, but beyond that, most manufacturers are better at certain tools than others. Why do you even need a track saw? If you're not planning on using it thousands of times to recoup the time-cost, just buy a piece of angle iron or aluminum and a couple $2 quick clamps at Harbor Freight and go to town. If you're on one site for any length of time, just use a table saw.
The only time I've ever seen Festool on a site and thought "OK, these guys actually need it" was on a $30 million home in Boston, custom, elaborate staircase and that's all these guys did. Almost every other time I've seen it, outside Youtube woodworking vids, it's a status symbol sitting unused in a box. My tools are dirty and not so photogenic from their hard-working life, but they still pay the bills and they've built some of the most impressive glass and aluminum structures on the east coast, no totes needed.
So yea, Festool has it's place, it just doesn't sound like it's necessarily in your home remodel.
You're forgetting this is GJ where overkill often takes priority over practicality. (same reason guys buy SO).
coldh2o
Well-known member
It's NOT. That's just an example of where someone decided that Festool can't possibly be a good product and then was thrilled when they could twist something around to justify their position.
Festool finds a lot of people that think their tools are just magic. Others that think they are hugely overpriced. Sadly, a lot of these spend time posting on the internet because neither spend much time using their tools....
FWIW, I use both a Festool Trion Jigsaw and Bosch 1590 and 1591 Jigsaws. I keep both Festool and Bosch blades and use whichever one works the best for a specific job as they have lots of blades that are the same but each make some unique blades.
I prefer the Trion for light work mainly due to the light weight. I prefer the Bosch 1590 for most work as it is one of the few D handle saws with a variable speed trigger. The Festool D-handle and all barrel handle saws just have the dial speed setting. I am not a fan of the Carvex and they certainly had a bunch of problems with early ones.
Not sure which is worse, the fanboys or the haters. I'm pretty brand neutral and every company makes good stuff and junk
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I'm curious about your choice of sanders since I have a bunch and you have missed a 5" and 6" ROS and I'm really wondering about the LS130 you purchased. That and the old PC hand held drum sander have to be the most unusual special purpose sanders for woodwork anyone ever created.
Many people look a spec sheets and think a Rotax is going to replace both a coarse sander and a fine ROS. Great for coarse work, not much use for a lot of fine work.
Bosch does a pretty good job of their coarse sander and Mirka does a pretty good job of their fine sanders. Festool really only one that covers it all.
Many people look a spec sheets and think a Rotax is going to replace both a coarse sander and a fine ROS. Great for coarse work, not much use for a lot of fine work.
Bosch does a pretty good job of their coarse sander and Mirka does a pretty good job of their fine sanders. Festool really only one that covers it all.
This isn't for my home remodel it's for a business. In my view there are many factors that more than offset the initial cost of these tools. The current project that I'm working on has many layers of old paint on hardwood moldings that needs to be sanded. My current rigid vac does an OK job of capturing the dust but it clearly leaves alot behind as well as blows out some through exhaust (yeah I am using a "HEPA" filter and drywall bag but it is clearly not capturing all of it). I'm particularly concerned about this project because paint could have lead in it. I wanted a certified HEPA vac before starting the trim. Festool has a reputation for one of best dust collection systems on market. They also make tools that aren't readily available by other manufacturers such as the linear sander that has profile pads that conform to some of the trim (or can be custom made onsite to match precisely). My next project is an historic house that has many antiques, books and other family heirlooms. I wanted best dust collection I could get for this project. I work by myself a track saw with appropriate table can eliminate the need to carry a table saw on site as well as eliminate dust at source. It also helps breakdown and greatly eliminates tearout on sheetgoods. There is no doubt cuts are more precise with a track saw vs circular saw and "piece of angle iron". I'm going to need to do some floor work on this next project as well cutting into 100+ year old oak flooring. (Not that it matters but this house isn't worth $30M but I'm sure it's worth $3M+). Good tools lead to good results. Clients appreciate dust being kept to minimum and seamless joinery. That leads to repeat business and referrals to new clients. I also have another renovation in the pipeline that should be north of $75k in work. The tools pay for themselves.
When it comes to dust collection, Festool is the best in general. There are others that match or even exceed it on specific tools. Mirka with the mesh pads does a fantastic job on very fine sanding where the pad is in full contact with the surface. We used their sanders in a production fine furniture manufacturer with great success. Bosch and Makita are doing a good job with masonry tools.
Festool came out with a different pattern of moving the air around on the sandpaper. I've heard it referred to as reverse flow. Instead of just trying to pull dust up, they are controlling the airflow and moving it toward the middle. Definitely works better than the old PC and Bosch setup of 8 holes in a ring. When you are sanding in the ranges that work well with the Mirka mesh, I think the Mirka system works better. Festool has some mesh media and they can be used but if you are dedicating a specific sander to specific jobs, I think Mirka has the best for that narrow function.
Festool came out with a different pattern of moving the air around on the sandpaper. I've heard it referred to as reverse flow. Instead of just trying to pull dust up, they are controlling the airflow and moving it toward the middle. Definitely works better than the old PC and Bosch setup of 8 holes in a ring. When you are sanding in the ranges that work well with the Mirka mesh, I think the Mirka system works better. Festool has some mesh media and they can be used but if you are dedicating a specific sander to specific jobs, I think Mirka has the best for that narrow function.
Not for woodwork necessarily I'm using this for paint I'm hoping the LS will help with some of the mouldings and stairway spindles. I bought rotex primarily for gear drive and dust collection. I own other 5 and 6" RO Sanders with good supply of Mirka paper. Also going to try Rotex on some flooring work.
Sounds like you are on the right track. Glad you understand that you are going to be making custom pads to make use of the LS130.
Think you need a 5mm orbit 6" ROS and a 3mm orbit 5" or 6" ROS.
The square and triangular orbital sanders are great but pretty narrow focus tools.
The dust collection and actual HEPA filtration is critical on Lead and doing work around really nice stuff. In my case it is more yachts and jets but no dust and nice organized tools really helps.
That vac is a beast, you will probably want a smaller one also. A 36 and stairs is a nasty combination.
Again, sounds like you know what you are doing. The Rotax 150 is great for coarse work where you need to change to ROS mode for some fine work.
Sorry, you ran into some haters.
Thanks, yeah I wanted to buy the RO90 as well as the brushless RO Sanders but this was all funds would allow at moment lol. I went back and forth on size initially was thinking 26 but wound up with 36. I actually think my next vac will be the 36 with auto clean if next job has a lot of drywall. I've used the Hilti with auto clean before and it did pretty good job with dust.
The autoclean vac is really a specialty vac for use with the drywall sander.
I have Bosch, Makita, Fein, Festool, Ermator, and Ridgid Vacs. They each have their place.
Unless you are dealing with drywall dust or concrete, the Festool vacs do great without the autoclean. The Bosch with autoclean is dedicated to concrete. Not a fan of Fein anymore since they completely changed even the company that manufactures them.
Because you should be able to hit a screw and not completely ruin a $350 jigsaw.
If he had been using a Festool blade, that would have covered the cost of repairs (more than what the jigsaw cost in the first place). But since he was not, they declined it. How does that make sense for a 'premium' product
Here is the original thread from the Festool Forum - Brent Shively is a Festool Employee
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festo...r-into-a-3-year-warrenty/msg388470/#msg388470
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I'm sure Festool USA can hire an idiot employee just like anyone else. We will hope he is gone by now. With 30 years experience dealing with Festool, something seems wrong about the info posted.
I've hit a number of screws with my Festool and Bosch jigsaws and haven't destroyed one. Interesting that this is a Carvex, one of only two Festool tools I returned under their 30 day no-question return policy. Carvex is **** in my opinion. There is a reason they still sell the "old" Trion. Regardless, I much prefer Bosch 1590/1591 for tough jobs.
I have seen someone destroy a blade in a Carvex without destroying the saw. Maybe he used a CUnex blade. I know Festool/Bosch blades will fit a P1CC but doubt they interchange the other way.
I remember when Dewalt had the first cordless jigsaw so we bought some to use just when you needed cordless. Every one broke, generally in a few hours of use.
Used the vac and Rotax today. Generally pretty happy the vac works great. Sander is very powerful and leaves a great finish even at lower grits (I was using 36 and 60). Made pretty quick work of large flat trim, a door and panel that was cracked (old paint) very badly and I tried it out on some drywall patches with 120 grit. Very impressed with how fast it works and with finish that it left. I still need to dial in the right speed for both vac and sander with various grits and surfaces. I did notice paper seems to last much longer than with my PC even though I'm taking off more material. On negative side it left a ton of paint chips with the 36 grit most were larger than dust ports. Did much better with the 60 grit. On drywall I noticed some dust falling straight down wall mostly just after starting. Definitely capturing more fine dust though as there was nothing noticable in room as happens with my other sander. It also seemed to be much louder so much I'm probably going to wear a headset. Weight was ok and little felt vibration even while working directly overhead. Have to get used to having hose come off so far back got in the way when working near edges of walls and floor. So far I'd give the vac a 9 and sander 8 but need to use it some more. Generally pretty happy with it.
Maybe you're on it - technically you need an EPA certification to disturb any lead paint. Might want to test for it if you're working indoors so you know for sure, at least to tell the client. Realistically, I think lead fears are overblown unless a child is eating paint chips. I scraped and sanded a lot of lead paint during 3-4 years of painting houses in my early 20's, using just a P95 respirator (and not even that when I first started, foolishly). Got tested when I quit in case I needed any chelation but they said my blood levels were fine.
As also mentioned, I use aluminum. It's lighter and extruded to tighter tolerances. If you carefully cut the right size block to gauge your base:blade offset you can get a cut that's every bit as accurate as a track saw, it just takes a few seconds longer to set up. If you're using it on a floor where you can't get clamps, obviously, it might make sense to use a track, although I've free cut plenty of flooring and never had any complaints.
Truth. I have a ~$25 blue Ryobi that I bought in a jam once (use Bosch now - Swiss-made for $150!). Doesn't get much use but recently I used it to cut out the one inch thick, steel-lined bushing from a steel suspension component. Figured it'd kill it but the thing still kicks.
That said, Metabo ***** for warranty stuff too. Hilti is great but then you pay double Metabo prices for less torque, and it's made in China. Guess they all get you somewhere. Still, that thread was cringeworthy customer service. "Offering" to charge the guy for repairs after he ships it to them and they tear it down, instead of just throwing a new part in at that point? Jeesh.