K&N filter cleaner alternative

[Falcon67]

Over oiling a K&N is the cause of failing MAF sensors, its super common.

This. I use K&N types on the race cars, regular paper filters on the daily's. I see no need for an expensive filter on a daily that only get's looked at every 12,000 miles or so. As for cleaning the K&N, I hose them with Simple Green, blast with a water hose and hang on the fence to dry. Light spray with K&N oil, back on the race car.

 

[az45]

I use them on Vintage Off Road Race cars that I restore and race mostly in Baja.

This is a short video clip from 2011 about a mile from the end of a 1300 mile race.
The silt is like baby powder, without good filters you'd never make this far.

I also use paper filters on my daily drivers, if I had to clean my filter....I probably wouldnt.

 

[C_F]

I use them on my street bike, but that's all so far. I do prefer the ease of swapping out paper filters on my cars.

Obligatory pic, since I already have my photo host site up...

 

[justanengineer]

GM looks really hard at cars with aftermarket air filters, anything from a bad maf, to internal motor or trans damage that can be blamed on them, may be denied warranty coverage.

^^^This. I cant speak much to the light duty world but in the heavy-duty world K&N filters have been a big reason for warranty denials for ~20 years and its been quite the fiasco with all manner of lawsuits and claims, especially in recent years with the light duty world also denying claims. K&N's been a pretty big instigator IMHO by trying to turn this into a "right to repair" issue against the OEMs, but when the bs clears they keep failing to meet OEM filter specs. A former colleague of mine tested K&Ns for a truck engine we were developing and having seen the results its pretty obvious why the OEMs are taking a stand, they dont filter worth a dam.

 

[finn]

^^^This. I cant speak much to the light duty world but in the heavy-duty world K&N filters have been a big reason for warranty denials for ~20 years and its been quite the fiasco with all manner of lawsuits and claims, especially in recent years with the light duty world also denying claims. K&N's been a pretty big instigator IMHO by trying to turn this into a "right to repair" issue against the OEMs, but when the bs clears they keep failing to meet OEM filter specs. A former colleague of mine tested K&Ns for a truck engine we were developing and having seen the results its pretty obvious why the OEMs are taking a stand, they dont filter worth a dam.

I worked in product engineering for a different OEM engine manufacturer for many decades and we had the same experience.

K&N is a disaster in the field, despite the heartfelt testimonials of some customers.

Warranty data doesn't lie, and oil analysis done over years on large samples confirms that they plain don't keep the dirt out of the engine.

 

[mbatarga]

If K&N filters - or other oiled media filter - actually added HP, improved performance, increase gas mileage - or any of the numerous claims made by K&N, I'm pretty certain that any car/truck mfr would obviously install them as stock.

 

[az45]

If K&N filters - or other oiled media filter - actually added HP, improved performance, increase gas mileage - or any of the numerous claims made by K&N, I'm pretty certain that any car/truck mfr would obviously install them as stock.

If this were true, their would be no reason for the automotive aftermarket business. As a rule, auto manufacturers are looking for reasons to get you back in for service so they can sell you service items. A cleanable lifetime air flter probably wouldnt make sense,

This is a cleanable filter ( http://www.aemintakes.com/dryflow_air_filters.htm ) that doesn't require oil and it filters and flows better than paper. It also can be cleaned with about anything and dries super fast. AEM developed it 10+ years ago as an answer to most of whats being discussed about the K&N in this thread. As it turned out, K&N ended up owning the air filter and intake division of AEM Power as part of a settlement after suing AEM over it.

 

[brownbagg]

K&N filters flow better than paper

they do flow better, but a regular paper filter will flow all the air that an engine can take in. even the cheaper oem will never not flow enough air to effect an engine.

 

[az45]

The paper filter works fine until it gets full of dirt. All things being equal, the same size paper and the same K&N with the same amount of dirt..your better off with the K&N.

I agree with the point that an engine can only ingest so much air, I dont think they are a good value as a performance upgrade on a stock street car.

There's tons of variable to be considered, I'm not saying they are the best choice for everybody. My argument is mostly against the blanket statements that they don't work, or they're junk ect.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

So, you are admitting it passes more dirt then? That's what I take out of that statement,but change your oil,it's ok then? Then why not just run with no filter? That's the best air flow. A screen there will keep out the big chunks anyway. Change your oil it goes away,right? If it's performance you're after, then so be it, but at what point do we stop defending a filter that was designed for performance, not the best filtration? How many of us would use the oil filter that flows the best, not that filters the best? Most people hang this thing under the hood in plain sight and call it a cold air intake too, I'm not seeing the logic, it's exactly the opposite, gulping in hot under hood air. For the average guy this is just another answer to a problem that doesn't exist. BTW, I use a full synthetic in my rides, tests have shown it gets to the top of an engine 6-7 times faster that conventional oils do. My daily is at 290,000 now, running strong, uses very little oil. Bone stock HO 4 cylinder. Bone stock is good enough and offers longevity without issue, my daily I'd dare to say is proof of that. I don't like changing my oil, and this engine gets 15,000 mile oil changes. I'm not going out of my way to install extravagant systems on my vehicles for longevity, but won't take away from what the factory offered for longevity as well, in a quest for performance on a daily driver. Some will, not me.

I'm not admitting anything if the sort. You're misunderstanding me. What I'm saying is if the ones bashing the K&N are so worried about wear, they'd also have a preluber because 90% of all engine wear occurs at startup from lack of oil pressure. Along that same line of thought, those same guys are probably using OEM oil filters that remove less than 30% of that same silica from the oil.

If you run in dirty environments where you're likely to pick up silica regardless of air filter type, more frequent oil changes does in fact remove it. That is why the interval is so much shorter in "dirty" environment usage as opposed to "normal".


BTW, on carbureted performance engines, dyno tests bear out that not running an air filter makes LESS power, regardless of filter type.

Tommy

 

[finn]

Where did you get your information that 90% of engine wear occurs at startup because of lack of oil pressure?

Do you understand what a hydrodynamic film is? Starting at extremely low temperatures does exacerbate ring wear, but a preluber won't help that.

Bearing wear is primarily caused by contaminated lube oil, which is a direct result of poor air filtration.

Modern turbocharged high output diesel powered construction and farm equipment, which have high airflow see extreme dust conditions and have long life requirements all use dry type air filtration. Oiled filtration systems disappeared from those applications decades ago, in the quest for extended life and system performance.

 

[Dragfluid]

Ginger or Mary Ann?

 

[C_F]

Ginger or Mary Ann?

Ginger!!
But only during the show...not so much afterward.

 

[softailgarage]

Are you kidding me? Mary Ann of course.....

 

[Firebrick43]

You think the operator thinking- "I only got 20,000 hours out of the last engine hauling 400 ton in the worst atmosphere on earth, maybe I should put K&Ns on it? "

Nah probably just -" four hours till beer!"

 

[DCarr2]

I swear you guys will argue over the dumbest of ****.

You dont like them fancy filters, dont use them... the OP likes them, even put one on his lawnmower to gain that itty bitty more power out of his 2 cylinder lol

Come on seriously guys? LOL

 

[losdudes]

I use K&N filters and AMSOIL, that should start another ******** argument!

 

[Dragfluid]

You think the operator thinking- "I only got 20,000 hours out of the last engine hauling 400 ton in the worst atmosphere on earth, maybe I should put K&Ns on it? "

Nah probably just -" four hours till beer!"

Well, hell yes! He could go from 4000HP to 4005HP!!

 

[Showkey]

^^^This. I cant speak much to the light duty world but in the heavy-duty world K&N filters have been a big reason for warranty denials for ~20 years and its been quite the fiasco with all manner of lawsuits and claims, especially in recent years with the light duty world also denying claims. K&N's been a pretty big instigator IMHO by trying to turn this into a "right to repair" issue against the OEMs, but when the bs clears they keep failing to meet OEM filter specs. A former colleague of mine tested K&Ns for a truck engine we were developing and having seen the results its pretty obvious why the OEMs are taking a stand, they dont filter worth a dam.

I worked in product engineering for a different OEM engine manufacturer for many decades and we had the same experience.

K&N is a disaster in the field, despite the heartfelt testimonials of some customers.

Warranty data doesn't lie, and oil analysis done over years on large samples confirms that they plain don't keep the dirt out of the engine.

+3 ^^^^^^^^^ very similar history and experience.

 

[GTO]

I use K&N filters and AMSOIL, that should start another ******** argument!

...don't forget to tell them you use Fram filters as well...

 

[Ed ke6bnl]

I use K&N filters and AMSOIL, that should start another ******** argument!

I will go one step further I use a FRAM TOILET PAPER FILTER on my Dodge Ram diesel.

 

[driftpin]

Ah, another pic of our favorite motorcycle! The mighty Yamaha VMax, equipped with the Dynojet Stage VII carb kit! Individual pod air filters of the K&N type.

Just like the Miller engine was dominant in its day at Indy, and in open-wheeled oval racing, and the Offenhauser, then the Cosworth DFV, no one stays on-top forever, as technology moves ahead. For those who were riding in the mid 1980's, the VMax came to market with attitude, looks, and performance that caused quite a stir.

Since they're now ten years since the last Generation I production (2007), newer bikers may be unfamiliar with them. That makes the fun of acquainting another unsuspecting biker with Mr. Max's torque and power all the more-fun.

Yes, I also use the K&N pods on mine, and kept the VBoost intact, instead or removing it like the Dynojet Stage VII instructions recommend.

For those who choose to malign the design, bear in-mind they built this model for a longer period of time than Henry made his Model T, Harley the Panhead, the Shovelhead, the Evolution. The market speaks, a design that has stood the test of time in the marketplace.

Reading all the nattering nabobs of negativism about the uselessness of the K&N air filter design, I am rightfully-concerned about its detrimental effect on the longevity of my poor VMax, since it's only lasted twenty-four years, perhaps I should switch-back, and get some additional years out of it?

I use them on my street bike, but that's all so far. I do prefer the ease of swapping out paper filters on my cars.

Obligatory pic, since I already have my photo host site up...

 

[bwringer]

I don't use K&N filters on my vehicles. I think the main general reasons have been explained already.

There are a couple of other factors that affect some vehicles and not others. One is that sometimes the shape of the filter ends up compromising the flow, and the other is that sometimes K&N doesn't get the details of the edge sealing right.

For example, the stock filter for the KLR650 (and most dirtbikes) is sort of a "dome" of oiled foam. The pleats in K&N filters don't allow for 3-D curves -- they either need to be flat as in most car/truck filters, or curve perpendicular to the pleats, as in the motorcycle pod filters above. K&N does make a filter for the KLR650 that looks a bit like those pods, but with the solid cap on the end and the various compromises to make it fit, there's not much surface area for the pleats left and it's been tested to actually flow significantly less than the stock oiled foam.

Another issue I've seen in a few different applications is poor sealing along the edges. Sometimes K&N doesn't get the design quite right, or it's molded poorly, or they just leave out any sort of gasket shape. If you decide you gotta have a K&N, it's well worth getting a good look at one in person and pondering whether it will actually make a good seal with the airbox. Again, this is a factor in some applications, but not others.

 

[Motorman55]

Ha...On that FRAM note: I use FRAM filters exclusively in my 1994 Chevy V-8/5spd powered C1500 PU truck that I ordered and purchased new. Has over 220,000 miles so far.

Oh, also I dumped the stock air filter and run an old style 11" MOROSO open style air filter with a FRAM paper filter sucking in all that 'hot air' under the hood.

Also use regular Castrol 10W-30 oil

Thru dust, rain and snow and N Jersey salted roads the truck runs just fine.
changing the filters and oil between 3,000-5,000 miles intervals.

I do use one of the K&N oil/gauze type air filters on my Harley engine with an S&S E carb that I built back around 2005. Whenever I take off the filter cover the inside of the carb butterfly area is perfectly clean.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Are you kidding me? Mary Ann of course.....

Was this year old argument brought to the top by a spammer, or did you go back in time searching for it just so you could post this?

 

[theoldwizard1]

Too many people never read the direction on K&N filter or other similar gauze and oil/foam and oil filters.

Yes, the media last nearly forever, but the get dirty/clog MUCH FASTER than a paper filter ! Both will prevent dirt from entering the engine, but a paper filter will "shed" a lot of the particles (into the housing) where as the oil bath will hold those particles.

Oil bath filters, especially when operated in dusty/dirty conditions need to be clean MORE OFTEN than paper filers. Many poor running vehicles are simply because of dirty oil batch filters. Also, some cold air intakes do not allow the air to be properly "measured" by the engine's mass air flow sensor.

 

[Firebrick43]

Ah, another pic of our favorite motorcycle! The mighty Yamaha VMax, equipped with the Dynojet Stage VII carb kit! Individual pod air filters of the K&N type.

Just like the Miller engine was dominant in its day at Indy, and in open-wheeled oval racing, and the Offenhauser, then the Cosworth DFV, no one stays on-top forever, as technology moves ahead. For those who were riding in the mid 1980's, the VMax came to market with attitude, looks, and performance that caused quite a stir.

Since they're now ten years since the last Generation I production (2007), newer bikers may be unfamiliar with them. That makes the fun of acquainting another unsuspecting biker with Mr. Max's torque and power all the more-fun.

Yes, I also use the K&N pods on mine, and kept the VBoost intact, instead or removing it like the Dynojet Stage VII instructions recommend.

For those who choose to malign the design, bear in-mind they built this model for a longer period of time than Henry made his Model T, Harley the Panhead, the Shovelhead, the Evolution. The market speaks, a design that has stood the test of time in the marketplace.

Reading all the nattering nabobs of negativism about the uselessness of the K&N air filter design, I am rightfully-concerned about its detrimental effect on the longevity of my poor VMax, since it's only lasted twenty-four years, perhaps I should switch-back, and get some additional years out of it?

The evolution came out in 84' and is still being produced in the sportster, very little changes except to add fuel injection and to add rubber mounting which modified the case

VMax came out in 85'

 

[Jeepster04]

Recently had my first oil analysis done on my 94 ZJ I6 with 255,000mi. The analysis came back with very high silica levels in the oil so after checking everything, I removed the K&N filter that has been in the ZJ since 94. The seal around the filter did have some areas of tearing so Im wondering if it was that. I've installed a Napa gold filter and will have another analysis done at the next oil change to see if the levels go down.

Also had an oil analysis done on my brothers 99 XJ thats also had a K&N filter since new. Silica levels were below normal.

Going to have one done on my 04 KJ to see how its doing when I change the oil.

 

[badss98]

wow this turned into a major **** storm, relax everyone and have a cocktail

 

[softailgarage]

5 Years later, still have the K&N, still have the truck with over 200k miles, live in the desert now for 3 years, dirt roads, sand, winds, blowing dirt and guess what....? Truck runs great! Couldn't be happier, love K&N, love Chevy. Now, excuse me, gotta go clean my filter.

 

[gmcgeo]

Thanks for the new way to clean my filter!