Kastar/Lang versus ARP tools for thread chasing

[promethean-in-fl]

I'm wondering if anyone could provide insights on the Kastar "thread restorer tap" sold under the Kastar, Lang, and Snap-On names compared to ARP's "thread cleaning chaser."

My immediate need is for cleaning out female threads, not known to be damaged, for the bolts for the head, intake manifold, exhaust manifold, and riser on a 1994 Indmar Chevy 350 TBI engine in my ski boat. Some are through holes and some are not.

Is one of these tools better than the other for my application? Other than the drives, what technical differences are there between the tools?

From manufacturer websites:

Lang 2585 - 6-PC. SAE COARSE THREAD RESTORER TAP SET

ARP 7/16˝-14 thread cleaning chaser Kit #: 911-0004

 

[oldwino]

I have the Kastar set and it has served me well. Heard good things about the ARP stuff but big bucks. Probably gets a little cleaner threads and truer torque readings though

 

[Packard V8]

The requirement to use a special thread chasing tap/die has been discussed here many times. I just know from fifty years of experience, go into a professional engine shop and most times they will be using whatever old tap/die is on hand. The real shock to most GJers is the tap will be driven by an air drill.

And no, that's not how I do it, but it does give some perspective on the range of options which will git'er done.

jack vines

 

[promethean-in-fl]

The requirement to use a special thread chasing tap/die has been discussed here many times. I just know from fifty years of experience, go into a professional engine shop and most times they will be using whatever old tap/die is on hand. The real shock to most GJers is the tap will be driven by an air drill.

And no, that's not how I do it, but it does give some perspective on the range of options which will git'er done.

jack vines

I read many of those comments before posting. I'm a newbie at this doing a one-off project, and figure I best play it safe by using a special tool for chasing. So I'm down to which special tool for it. While the Kastar/Lang/Snap-On tool for this has many mentions in this forum, I found very little about ARP and nothing comparing the two.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

I have the Kastar/Lang set rebranded by Craftsman and it's been a good buy. I'm not one for using taps as they are cutting tools, where the thread chasers are forming tools. Different tools with different uses. You can use a wrench as a hammer, but a hammer typically works better when the job calls for a hammer.

 

[promethean-in-fl]

I have the Kastar set and it has served me well. Heard good things about the ARP stuff but big bucks. Probably gets a little cleaner threads and truer torque readings though

I'm aware of the significant price differential and have wondered why it exists, but left it out of my post intentionally because, needing to do just a little of this work and needing just a couple of chasers, while the percentage price differential is huge, the absolute price differential wouldn't be for me.

Any idea why the ARP tool would probably get cleaner threads and truer torque readings? Design difference? Quality control? I would think if Kastar is making them for Snap-On, a respected brand sold in the professional market, they would be pretty good. Yet, ARP exists in the marketplace at a much higher price point somehow, which could be based on quality reality or just a perception that isn't reality, so thought I would ask.

 

[gatewaysysop]

I have the Kastar/Lang set rebranded by Craftsman and it's been a good buy. I'm not one for using taps as they are cutting tools, where the thread chasers are forming tools. Different tools with different uses. You can use a wrench as a hammer, but a hammer typically works better when the job calls for a hammer.

Agree on all counts. Have used my rebranded Craftsman set of these many times over the years and they do a fantastic job. I have plenty of taps kicking about, but reach for these thread chasers every time when I'm trying to clean something up.

 

[ZRX61]

I have the Kastar/Lang set rebranded by Craftsman and it's been a good buy.

Ditto, had it for eons, it works.

 

[M6erfan]

I have the Kastar/Lang set rebranded by Craftsman and it's been a good buy. I'm not one for using taps as they are cutting tools, where the thread chasers are forming tools. Different tools with different uses. You can use a wrench as a hammer, but a hammer typically works better when the job calls for a hammer.

+3

 

[JR 42]

I've used the Lang version, mostly to correct problems caused by other folks (chewed up skid plate bolts) on my old Tacoma, and similar on the wife's old Corolla that we sold, with no complaints. No experience with the ARP product, but your application sounds a lot more demanding than mine.

 

[setfocus]

I've got a matco kit, TDK51. It's gotten me out of some binds and saved some wheel studs. I wish it had the 14x2 that ford uses on the F150 lugs. I've only had to use an actual tap a few times and borrowed them. Need to get a good tap/die set but they are $$$ and who knows when I'll need it next. That said, I don't dig that far into a motor at work, but I've always wanted to build a sbc or something

 

[darkzero]

I have the Kastar/Lang set rebranded by Craftsman and it's been a good buy. I'm not one for using taps as they are cutting tools, where the thread chasers are forming tools. Different tools with different uses. You can use a wrench as a hammer, but a hammer typically works better when the job calls for a hammer.

Same here, have the Craftsman branded set that has served me well for about 20 yrs & totally agree in regards to taps vs chasers.

I've gotten sizes not included & replacements from my Matco guy.

 

[oldwino]

Just for kicks I looked up the thread chasers in the ARP catalog. Only states that they are precision tools (no mention of any special manufacturing process or materials). With that said I’d probably go with the Lang/Kastar set giving you an assortment of SAE and metrics for about the same $$$$$
I recend my previous post

 

[Mohawk Dave]

I don't see what the ARP could do differently.

I've cleaned thousands of inside threads in the last 8 years. (Refurb machinery)

If applicable, I first clean the hole with usually a brass or nylon bottle brush (the little ones with the hex shank ran in a drill motor), then I use my Craftsman/Lang or Four Star or NES chasers.

And just to reiterate, chasers clean and move the metal back to where it should be. A tap or die cuts the metal, thus removing thread material that should stay.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

If you just need a couple of sizes I believe you can buy them individually from McMaster Carr.

 

[d.mcfarland]

Snap-On ones are Lang rebranded, but lifetime warranty. I've never had any issues. I have metric ones that are lang and they are the same. I'd imagine some members could have come close to using them enough to wear them out, but I'm no where close.

 

[BillK]

I am going to throw my vote with Jack. I have been doing this stuff for 33 years now and I have never used anything but a regular tap with some good threading oil. Have never had an issue with it. Like Jack said I bet if you go into 10 machine shops they are all going to tell you the same thing. If you are really that worried just take a bolt and cut a few grooves in it with a triangular file and it will do the same thing.

 

[Qualitytools]

Another vote for LANG thread chaser set(s), I have used them several times with excellent results. By the LANG with confidence!

 

[Mohawk Dave]

SNIP.. If you are really that worried just take a bolt and cut a few grooves in it with a triangular file and it will do the same thing.

YES! That's another thing. I've done that with really large sizes or odd ball threads I don't have a chaser for. I use a cut off wheel and make grooves in a bolt. Works great.

 

[Jbullfrog]

You can get individual sizes from any of the tool trucks. A thread chaser set is a great and often used tool, if you have one. I have a second set in my truck, as I farm and com across rust and holes to clean daily. Find a used set on E-bay or at a pawn shop, get the largest set, and if you have a tool truck in your area, get that brand as they will replace them. I have yet to break one in 25 years of using them. I have broken a few taps in rusty holes.

 

[ChevyEFI]

A thread chasing tool is a safer way to go faster when chasing parts. It's, by design, intended to shunt threads back to their correct place when shifted, not prioritize cutting.

Also, the design of a thread chasing tool is s a looser fit. It can partially be explained because there are grades of taps and dies in addition to their indicated thread sizes. A thread chasing tool is going to be similar to a looser-tolerance tap or die. More reading here: https://www.fastenal.com/content/feds/pdf/Article - Screw Threads Design.pdf

On your project, if you have a through-hole, just use what you got. If you have a hole that would truly **** to address with a stuck tap, a new chaser is a good idea. On your particular project, head bolt holes are the only place where I'd worry about buying a new chaser, if you lack one. Otherwise, existing taps and dies will be okay.

I have the Kastar set and it has served me well. Heard good things about the ARP stuff but big bucks. Probably gets a little cleaner threads and truer torque readings though

Doubt it. A looser fit tool by design takes away from the "more precise fit" argument.

If you just need a couple of sizes I believe you can buy them individually from McMaster Carr.

SnapOn, before the minimum order / shipping thing, was a decent source for singles.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

I have the Kastar/Lang set rebranded by Craftsman and it's been a good buy. I'm not one for using taps as they are cutting tools, where the thread chasers are forming tools. Different tools with different uses. You can use a wrench as a hammer, but a hammer typically works better when the job calls for a hammer.

I also bought the rebranded as Craftsman set, and share Your thoughts as a good buy.

 

[WittHay]

I think the longer taps do a better job of cleaning out the **** in the holes. Rust and old sealant for through holes.

The trick was to use a older tap or loose fitting one for engines not the brand new close tolerance tap with the sharp threads

My pick is the ARP over the Lang/Kastar ones for engine work

 

[LS6 Tommy]

The real shock to most GJers is the tap will be driven by an air drill.

jack vines

I can't even count how many holes I've tapped with a cordless drill when I used to build control panels. There wasn't enough time in the day to turn each one by hand.

Tommy

 

[sk farmer]

i would get only the sizes you need and then get a 3 pc thread chasing set.


i am kidding. i highly doubt there is a 3 pc set of thread chasers but it is odd how when you need taps we are told you just have to have 3pc set for occasional use and then only the sizes you think you need but when you get thread chasers a set is ok.

 

[M635_Guy]

It seems like the process would be use the thread-chaser first, then use the tap/die to fix any remaining issues. Should result in the least amount of material removed??

 

[BigSteve63]

I've got a matco kit, TDK51. It's gotten me out of some binds and saved some wheel studs. I wish it had the 14x2 that ford uses on the F150 lugs. I've only had to use an actual tap a few times and borrowed them. Need to get a good tap/die set but they are $$$ and who knows when I'll need it next. That said, I don't dig that far into a motor at work, but I've always wanted to build a sbc or something

I have the Lang version of this set - originally borrowed a set from Autozone when a couple of fasteners in the dark underbelly of the Kubota were fubared with no room to get a tap/T-handle into. The Lang chaser with socket made short work of the repair. Ordered a set of my own the next day.

FYI - Lang customer service is amazing. I broke a couple of the chasers while running threads on nuts that I had welded to a project. Called to ask how to order singles for replacement and they told me that they would mail them out at no charge.

Steve

 

[Tallpilot]

i would get only the sizes you need and then get a 3 pc thread chasing set.


i am kidding. i highly doubt there is a 3 pc set of thread chasers but it is odd how when you need taps we are told you just have to have 3pc set for occasional use and then only the sizes you think you need but when you get thread chasers a set is ok.

It's just like a vice, air compressor or drill press. You absolutely have to buy used. So cancel your vacation and plan to spend every day off going to estate sales and equipment auctions. Hopefully it won't take more than a year but surely that loss of free time is worth it.

 

[promethean-in-fl]

ARP are sold through automotive performance shops, including online by Summit Racing, Jegs, and Amazon.

 

[HenryAZ]

I have the Nes Tools model 1A outside thread repair tool. It is not cheap, until you consider it does SAE and metric. The 1A does 5/32" -> 3/4" and M4 -> M19. It self-adjusts to each size thread and does a great job. Their inside thread repair tools are a bit more expensive and each one covers a narrower range of thread sizes, so for now I just use a tap for inside threads.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

The only reason the lang set (which I also own and use constantly at work) would be insufficient is for deep holes which need chased. They're only about 2 inches long so you're not chasing head bolts or resessed threads.

 

[dnschmidt]

The ARP looks to me to be a common plug tap. NOTHING THREAD CHASING ABOUT IT. The Lang are true thread chasers in that they don't remove metal. Now I've used taps as thread chasers I'll admit that. But rumor has it that thread chasers are for chasing threads (novel concept) and taps are for making threads.

 

[lardy1]

I bought these after my Harley mechanic friends scolded me for cleaning old gunk and thread locker with taps and dies. It made perfect sense and I use them often on a lot of maintenance projects. Saves me a 12 mile trip to town for new fasteners.

 

[Tallpilot]

I bought these after my Harley mechanic friends scolded me for cleaning old gunk and thread locker with taps and dies. It made perfect sense and I use them often on a lot of maintenance projects. Saves me a 12 mile trip to town for new fasteners.

The ‘new’ fasteners you can get in town probably aren’t as good as the old fasteners anyway.

 

[ChevyEFI]

I bought these after my Harley mechanic friends scolded me for cleaning old gunk and thread locker with taps and dies. It made perfect sense and I use them often on a lot of maintenance projects.

Is Jawco relabeling Lang for that set, as far as you can tell?

 

[lardy1]

Is Jawco relabeling Lang for that set, as far as you can tell?

I researched all this before I purchased but it escapes me now. As I recall, Jawco is the actual manufacturer. I believe others rebrand Jawco but I really don't know anything about Lang.

 

[ChevyEFI]

The ARP looks to me to be a common plug tap. NOTHING THREAD CHASING ABOUT IT. The Lang are true thread chasers in that they don't remove metal. Now I've used taps as thread chasers I'll admit that. But rumor has it that thread chasers are for chasing threads (novel concept) and taps are for making threads.

It does look like a plug tap. That said, if the tolerances, metallurgy, and shape of the teeth are correct, what's preventing that from being a valid thread chaser tool? Serious question. Obviously Lang uses longer tooth profiles / narrower gaps.

 

[M6erfan]

Is Jawco relabeling Lang for that set, as far as you can tell?

I'm pretty sure Jawco is the manufacturer

 

[Tallpilot]

I'm pretty sure Jawco is the manufacturer

I agree.

http://www.jawco.com/index.html

The above looks like a manufacturer's website.

This looks suspiciously like the Wilde prybar everybody rebrands.

http://www.langtools.com/sku-853-25-25-pry-bar-with-strike-cap/

Which is very interesting because I've always thought Lang made that set. Now I wonder if they make anything.

 

[M6erfan]

I agree.

http://www.jawco.com/index.html

The above looks like a manufacturer's website.

This looks suspiciously like the Wilde prybar everybody rebrands.

http://www.langtools.com/sku-853-25-25-pry-bar-with-strike-cap/

Which is very interesting because I've always thought Lang made that set. Now I wonder if they make anything.

Yeah; Jawco, Kastar/Lang, Snap-on, Mac, Matco, Craftsman, whoever... Shop around for the best price, they're all the exact same, AFAIK.

I bought mine from Sears around 2002. I've used the heck out of it (mostly M6, M8, M10 sizes), definitely got my money's worth out of it.