Kellogg 321 compressor leak

[burnedzr2]

Kellogg 321 compressor leak, Now new 331 compressor

I have a old Kellogg American 321tv 5hp compressor that I can hear leaking inside. I just noticed it this morning. Anyone ever work on one of these compressors? Just need to be pointed in the right direction.

 

[KCarGuy]

I had a 1954 Kellogg American 321 Compressor for 20 years, rebuilt it somewhere between 9-10 years ago and used it a few more years before selling it.
Almost all the Parts you need can be still purchased on-line.
I replaced rods, pistons, Rings, valves, valve keepers, seals and Gaskets.
That's a Real Nice Compressor that should give you Years and Years of Use!

 

[roofster]

Are you sure it's not just the centrifugal unloader bleeding down?

 

[burnedzr2]

Nope I am not sure, I heard air coming from it so I pulled the cabinet off it and heard it coming from the air intake area. And it leaked until it started again. Today it was doing it all day.

 

[scw1991]

I would suspect you have a leaking check valve at the tank which would allow for pressurized air in the tank to seep back past the teflon seat within the check valve and snake it's way back through the pump.

 

[burnedzr2]

Ok, I will look at the check valve tomorrow.

 

[bran1har]

Definitely the check valve, I had the same problem. If its bad it will also make the compressor difficult to start if the pump is getting back pressure from the start

 

[burnedzr2]

I pulled the check valve off and cleaned the **** out of it, there wasn't much on/in it. So I put it back together and fired it up. the leak was still there. So I pulled the head off. That was a mess, I had to find a schematic to it and called a friend to look at it also. The valve things were rusty and it had soft springs that were rusty so I found a place that sells the parts to do the head over. So this is where I am at now.

 

[burnedzr2]

I dug into the head some more today. I took old sockets and made spanner style pin sockets to unscrew the valve seats. the seats are hammered all grooved up so it has been used for a long time, date 1968 on it.

I went and looked at a different compressor head today that was for sale it looked like mine but when I got there it was twice the size it was a Kellogg 352tv for $60. So I picked it up. I don't think the 5hp baldor would run it, if I slow it down to 460 rpm?

Edit for content correction: The head turned out to be a 331tv not a 352tv!

 

[redmondjp]

I dug into the head some more today. I took old sockets and made spanner style pin sockets to unscrew the valve seats. the seats are hammered all grooved up so it has been used for a long time, date 1968 on it.

I went and looked at a different compressor head today that was for sale it looked like mine but when I got there it was twice the size it was a Kellogg 352tv for $60. So I picked it up. I don't think the 5hp baldor would run it, if I slow it down to 460 rpm?

This link gives the specs for the 352 pump and it goes down to 7.5HP at 520rpm:

http://www.mastertoolrepair.com/images/Kellogg Pump Specs.pdf

Since you already have that bigger pump, what have you got to lose? I see no reason why you can't run that pump a bit slower like you are suggesting, and you can always adjust the maximum pressure down to 135-145psi instead of 175 and that will lower the HP required as well.

Running in the 400ish rpm range should still provide plenty of lubrication so I don't think that's a concern.

Once you are up and running, monitor the motor amps with an AC clamp-on ammeter to ensure that you aren't exceeding the motor specifications.

 

[bsaint]

These aren't splash lubed so slow go is okay.

 

[burnedzr2]

Well I am going to try it, for now I am using the 5 3/4 pulley I have. and get some longer belts. The outlet is 3/4 so I need to get a couple of adapters. I will post up pics when its running.

 

[burnedzr2]

I found a bunch of info on the compressor, I called a place that was a dealer for them , they were very helpful, Scales compressor in Meriden CT. they had the book with all the compressor sizes and they one I got is a 331 or a 332 just about 22 inches tall which is better suited to a 5 hp motor. So now I have to get a 6 inch 3-b pulley.

 

[bsaint]

I know Scales pretty well as I used to work for their competitor in New England.

 

[burnedzr2]

I know Scales pretty well as I used to work for their competitor in New England.

Good people over there! I emailed a pic of the head while we were talking and he know what the pump was right off.

 

[burnedzr2]

Had to buy a pulley and belts for the compressor, I wanted to buy them local but the pulley was $99. and the bushing was $37.00 the belts were $54.00 =$190

I found a place Freemont Industrial Supply $108.00 total shipped

Now I like to buy local but the markup on the same parts is crazy.

 

[burnedzr2]

He are a couple of pics of the compressor. I had to make another mount for the electric motor as it was to close to the compressor head. Drilled and then slotted with a .032 cut off wheel, I used carriage bolts and ground the sides to fit in the slots, then welded the two rails to a flat metal piece. I will have to wait until I get the pulley and belts before I install the mount on the tank mount to position it right.
I am replacing the copper lines and changing the oil in the head. It needs a new drain tube because it is bent, I am not going to try to bend it down I don't want to chance breaking it off. The sight glass mount needs to be straightened out. I had a hose made for the pump to tank fill, I gave them the measurements and they made it longer than I asked. In the future I will have it cut and put a some sort of finned aftercooler setup on it.

 

[burnedzr2]

I finished the motor mount this morning, I made the adjustment part so I can tighten the motor up easily. Turned 4 aluminum spacers for the slider to sit on and welded a nut under the slider and made a tab and welded it to the mount. Now to paint it and and wait for the rest of parts to come.

 

[burnedzr2]

Re: New Kellogg 331 replacement

Did a little more today while I was waiting for the pulley and belts and new starter.

I replaced the copper lines on the compressor lines, moved the pressure switch away from the motor a little and put a new pressure relief valve and manifold setup so I can get tank pressure and regulated pressure at the compressor, plus I have the feed line that goes thru the wall to the water trap and pressure regulator. Put a new drain tube on it with a 45 degree fitting and a cap to get it away from the tank a little so changing the oil is not such a mess. I took the aluminum oil sight glass out of the 331 head because it was leaking and replaced it with the 321 brass sight glass that was in great shape. Going to put synthetic oil in it next.

 

[fury9]

Somebody's been out playing in the garage! That pump should make quick work of filling that tank, Should be a pretty solid set-up

 

[burnedzr2]

I received all the parts to get the Kellogg going today. It fired up and made air fast! just over 3 mins to fill the tank and 40 sec to recover. That is so much faster than the old one. Anyway with the good there is also bad. After the compressor pumps up and sits for 30 min it has a hard time starting it popped the mag breaker. If I am using it,it starts and stops fine it just can not sit. When it shuts down it blows off thru the unloader so that must be working. Could it be the check valve? I was reading that it could be this.I had it apart and cleaned it up and put it back just like it was. I will pull the line off tomorrow after I fill it to see if it is leaking.

 

[redmondjp]

I received all the parts to get the Kellogg going today. It fired up and made air fast! just over 3 mins to fill the tank and 40 sec to recover. That is so much faster than the old one. Anyway with the good there is also bad. After the compressor pumps up and sits for 30 min it has a hard time starting it popped the mag breaker. If I am using it,it starts and stops fine it just can not sit. When it shuts down it blows off thru the unloader so that must be working. Could it be the check valve? I was reading that it could be this.I had it apart and cleaned it up and put it back just like it was. I will pull the line off tomorrow after I fill it to see if it is leaking.

Did you ever fix or replace that bad check valve mentioned earlier in this thread? That's probably still the issue. Also, on compressors that use their output valve(s) as the check valve, if those are leaking, you can experience the same issue (hard to start since cylinder in pump is pressurized).

So have you checked your motor run current with the new compressor on there? That would tell you if you are overloading the motor or not and it's definitely worth checking.

 

[burnedzr2]

I replaced the check valve at the tank, The amps on each leg are 24 amps as it is working.
I did read tonight that I have overfilled the compressor, I filled it until the sight glass was filled so I have to drain out about down to the half way point on the glass. It still was having a hard time starting after I replaced the check valve, so I am going to test the starting capacitor tomorrow It may be weak.

 

[stage20]

What type of hose is on the discharge going to the tank?

 

[burnedzr2]

I had a 5/8 hydraulic hose made for it, It was a freebee for now. I have a after cooler I am building later.

 

[burnedzr2]

I checked the capacitors today, I did a lot of reading on them and what should the uf capacitance value should be for a 5hp motor. So the rule is 100 mdf uf per hp min. So I pulled the capacitors out of the Baldor 5hp motor there are 2 ,216-259mdf uf 250vac start capacitors linked together so if I check them they are 224mdf uf each so they are at the low/ mid end of the rating. if I check them together it drops a little 431 mdf uf so I think they are weak from what I have read. I also read that the motor companys save money by putting the lower value capacitors to save money. I am going to email Temco and ask them if I can bump the starting capacitors up a little. I have read the run capacitor value cant be more that 10% but the voltage can be higher. But that one is ok.

 

[stage20]

I had a 5/8 hydraulic hose made for it, It was a freebee for now. I have a after cooler I am building later.

make sure its designed for the rated pressure at the temperature its operating. not saying it will, but you dont want to be around it if it explodes.

needs to be copper or teflon lined braid, IMO.

 

[burnedzr2]

It is steel braided, no worries.

 

[fury9]

Might sound stupid but do you have the belts ridiculously tight?

 

[burnedzr2]

Thought of that, but no they have 1" of movement in them

 

[stage20]

It is steel braided, no worries.

rubber hose can fail over time with temperature and pressure cycles. just because its braided doesnt mean its the right hose.

when ran hard my 331 discharge line will can burn the piss out of you.

 

[burnedzr2]

I know it gets hot, but until I sort out everything I am leaving it, I have the after cooler that I am going to put on and then that line will change to something else.

This motor ran fine on the 321 head, but a friend of mine was over and suggested that the service might have a problem.

I am having my electrician stop over later to check my service to the shop the wiring is underground and been there since the 50's. I can't imagine there would be a problem but I am going to get it checked just in case.

 

[redmondjp]

I know it gets hot, but until I sort out everything I am leaving it, I have the after cooler that I am going to put on and then that line will change to something else.

This motor ran fine on the 321 head, but a friend of mine was over and suggested that the service might have a problem.

I am having my electrician stop over later to check my service to the shop the wiring is underground and been there since the 50's. I can't imagine there would be a problem but I am going to get it checked just in case.

OK, good to eliminate all the possibilities. He can use a min/max/hold feature on his meter to see what the dip is in voltage when the motor starts (to see how 'stiff' your electrical supply is).

 

[burnedzr2]

problem found!

So the electrician stopped by and checked out the sub panels and main panel. Bingo! the wire from the main to the shop was so corroded green that he could not believe it was letting power out to the shop as there were only a couple of good strands left. It is copper but there was not enough in the panel to cut it off and get it back in to the breaker. He made a temp jumper and went out to the shop, The compressor started right up every time. He pulled the jumper out and left me without power right now. So He is going to pickup a disconnect and run the wire into that then back into the main panel he said I should have that anyway and it should take care of the problem. There are other wires that are green in the panel that he is going to fix. Then he wants to put a new panel in the shop. ( He's been wanting to do it anyway) So problem found! Who would think the one wire would corrode? How does it happen anyway?

 

[burnedzr2]

Update: Wiring!!

Update: I had the disconnect installed and a new main panel installed and a socket with a new service wire outside the house. The power company is coming some day to replace the service to the pole.
My electrician says that when it is all done I will have power to spare. All the wires that came off the house are really corroded, like they were under salt water. The wires in the basement are cloth covered with plastic coated wiring inside, like romex with cloth. The plastic wiring under the cloth is cracking and the copper is leaching onto the floor joists. So it is all going to get replaced, So my electrician is going to replace everything, As I cut open the walls a room at a time. Fun Is!!

But on a better note, I Used the compressor to sandblast with and it will keeps right up.