KELLOGG 331 LOCKED UP

[joe121]

Hi, rebuilt this late 50's 331 about 8 months ago. New rings,valve disks and springs, rod bearings. Ran fine till the other day when i turned on it was locked up solid. removed head and found hp cylinder had what looked like a layer of smooth rust. Had to hit pistons back and forth to free up. Pacific air said they never heard of rust in cylinder. Has anybody seen this before. Also how can one know if the oiler ring is working. also the hp piston seems to have some small amount of vertical play in it. Thanks,joe

 

[65ranchero]

Have you tried this forum?https://forums.mastertoolrepair.com/index.php/forum/air-compressor-forum

 

[MacMcMacmac]

You can pull off one of the sidecovers and see if the ring is in the groove on the crankshaft. Rotate the crank and see if it moves smoothly through a full rotation. It might have jumped out of the guides on the crankcase bottom and stopped rotating with the crankshaft. It might also be out of round, or the welded **** joint may have separated at the ring's joint. If there's slop in the small end it definitely sounds like it wasn't getting lubed properly. Did you clean out all the oil passages in the crank? Sorry to hear your rebuild has had a problem.

EDIT: Sorry, got this mixed up with a 352 which does have side covers. The only way to check is to pull the block.

 

[joe121]

You can pull off one of the sidecovers and see if the ring is in the groove on the crankshaft. Rotate the crank and see if it moves smoothly through a full rotation. It might have jumped out of the guides on the crankcase bottom and stopped rotating with the crankshaft. It might also be out of round, or the welded **** joint may have separated at the ring's joint. If there's slop in the small end it definitely sounds like it wasn't getting lubed properly. Did you clean out all the oil passages in the crank? Sorry to hear your rebuild has had a problem.

EDIT: Sorry, got this mixed up with a 352 which does have side covers. The only way to check is to pull the block.

Thanks for your advise.From reading your past responses on a/c's i know to take your advise and even tho i don't want to tear it down again i will. When putting the head on last time it was very difficult, the bottom edge of the cylinders have a wedge shape, is this for putting the head over the pistons without a ring compressor? thanks

 

[MacMcMacmac]

Yes, the lead-in taper is there to make piston installation much easier. You should be able to slide it all in with just finger pressure on the rings if the taper is generous enough. Try to keep the ring ends away from the con rod clearance reliefs on the bottom of the high pressure cylinder since they can hook up and snap a ring. I know this is a pain trying to keep everything aligned, especially when its heavy and wobbly. Sometimes you can use all-thread rod as really long studs to help guide it all back together. You might even get lucky laying it on its side for reassembly.

You could pull the end cover to check the oiler ring, but the crank would be unsupported one end and you would have to disturb your shim pack for the bearing preload. There are also small collector cups on the crank throws that are supposed to collect the oil carried up by the oiler ring. If they are missing your lubrication will be inadequate. You can see one here brazed to the crankshaft. The ring brings the oil up to the central groove it rides in and centrifugal force throws it down the outer face of the crankshaft throw where the collector "cup" directs it into oil ports and into the crankshaft.

Also double check your ring gaps.

 

[joe121]

I took the cylinder off,it looks like it was getting at least some oil. the oiler ring was in place but it was out of round. As i turn the crank the ring at some points is not turning because its to wide and not sitting all the way down into the crank groove. So as to not have to take this thing completely apart i might have my neighber tig it back together and make it round enough so that it always turns. Very good idea about the treaded rods for guideing the head, i am definetly doing that. how did you get so knowlegdable on all these compressors? You may have stated your answer before but i forgot(old age). thanks joe

 

[MacMcMacmac]

Hi Joe. I did a lot of field service and rebuild work for a variety of small shops in Alberta back in the 90s and early 2000s. We worked on everything. I did a few more years in Ontario before landing my current job. I learned a lot but it was not well paid work, nor was it dependable.

 

[joe121]

Hi Joe. I did a lot of field service and rebuild work for a variety of small shops in Alberta back in the 90s and early 2000s. We worked on everything. I did a few more years in Ontario before landing my current job. I learned a lot but it was not well paid work, nor was it dependable.

That explains your knowlegde . i am retired (2yrs) and while i was going over a 1974 champion r15 for my son the kellogg broke. what do you think of champions? I am thinking of making my own cylinder to crankcase gasket,do i use any particular material?

 

[MacMcMacmac]

Champions are excellent machines. If you get an aluminum one you will have a very cool running pump. The older ones were cast iron. Nothing wrong with that of course. As late as the 90s you could still order any of the bigger pumps in cast iron if you wanted.

Ordinary gasket paper you can pickup up for general auto use will do fine, just keep it as close to the same thickness as possible to keep piston crown clearance the same.

 

[joe121]

Champions are excellent machines. If you get an aluminum one you will have a very cool running pump. The older ones were cast iron. Nothing wrong with that of course. As late as the 90s you could still order any of the bigger pumps in cast iron if you wanted.

Ordinary gasket paper you can pickup up for general auto use will do fine, just keep it as close to the same thickness as possible to keep piston crown clearance the same.

i thought it is a good a/c too, thanks again

 

[joe121]

Champions are excellent machines. If you get an aluminum one you will have a very cool running pump. The older ones were cast iron. Nothing wrong with that of course. As late as the 90s you could still order any of the bigger pumps in cast iron if you wanted.

Ordinary gasket paper you can pickup up for general auto use will do fine, just keep it as close to the same thickness as possible to keep piston crown clearance the same.

Hi. got it back together last week or so.Seems to run fine but one thing that bothers me is that i can't see the oil level drop at all once the pump starts up after its been sitting awhile. I did'nt notice before ether. Do you know if this is normal with an oil ring system? What do you think a normal pump up time from 0-psi to 130 psi would be. 80gal. older 3hp/4in pulley? Thanks,joe

 

[MacMcMacmac]

There will never be enough oil taken up by the ring to visibly drop the oil level in the glass.

If your pump is putting out 10cfm, which is about 3hp worth of air if the pump is geared properly, it should take about 9.5 minutes to fill 80 gallons from 0 to 130. This will be longer if you are at any appreciable altitude.

 

[joe121]

There will never be enough oil taken up by the ring to visibly drop the oil level in the glass.

If your pump is putting out 10cfm, which is about 3hp worth of air if the pump is geared properly, it should take about 9.5 minutes to fill 80 gallons from 0 to 130. This will be longer if you are at any appreciable altitude.

sorry for taking so long to get back but have been sick,better now. That's a relieve to know about the oil level. . From 0 psi to 127 psi it took 7min I am using full synth a/c oil from menards. When my neighbor bought is rebuilt 4 cyc 7.5hp compressor 30yrs ago from grainger the old guy that did the rebuilt told him to only use mobil 1 syn. car oil only and it will out last him. Any thoughts on that? Do you think these old compressors with oil sling rings prefer any kind of different oil or am i worring to much? Thanks, again