Kevin54's....."The Addition"

[cat06]

you can rough in, in the walls with deep 4 square metal boxes and single gang rings for outlets, make the runs in 3/4 "smurf" tube up and back to your panel. pull stranded thhn.

what this will do is allow you and future expansion, no horizontal runs in the walls causing problems later on. future wise its easy to carefully cut out the single gang ring for a double, or add a 4sq extension ring and pipe from there. extra circuits can later be pulled in the smurf tube or heaver wire if you move a piece of equipment.
Mostly it leaves possibilities open in the future and is in the walls and way cheaper, easier and faster than pipe.

just another idea though a little more expensive than romex

 

[matt_i]

I like the idea of some basic wiring (110vac outlets at regular intervals, overhead "house lights" to give basic lighting for walking around) in the walls & ceilings. However anything 3phase powering machines or heavy amp circuits for compressors or welders, I run in surface conduit in case I ever move. Don't want to leave that stuff behind nor be subject to additional specialized inspections. As much as I like to think this is permanent and I don't want to move, all it takes is a plant closing to turn all nature of things upside down.

I took advantage of the overhead attic space to try to keep it clean and run large vertical PVC-rigid conduits up thru the drywall and into the attic space. There's not much that can go out in the low-height truss area anyway. NEMA-1 boxes at the bottom just for pulling wires into and for going in different directions from there. Of around 8" x 8" x 6" are connected by a "trunk line" that is 2" dia that runs more or less around the perimeter of the attic in a modified "C" shape connecting all the vertical drops (tees from the trunk). Plenty of room for pulling any kind of wiring. As you probably know, there is not a good day during the year to work in the attic, as its always too hot or too cold. But I got it done somehow

Back to the overhead lights, its also my preference to install a quad box at every bulb-base (Edison base, etc) in the ceiling. This way if I desire to change a single CFL bulb over to a heavy task light like a 4-bulb T5HO then I simply unwire the bulb-base, install a duplex outlet in its place, and plug in the big task light. Lots of flexibility gained for a little planning.

Relative to $10/hr labor...I don't even know what kind of simple job you could get done for that wage. Certainly not brainless work like cutting grass or washing cars.

 

[bczygan]

I like the idea of some basic wiring (110vac outlets at regular intervals, overhead "house lights" to give basic lighting for walking around) in the walls & ceilings. However anything 3phase powering machines or heavy amp circuits for compressors or welders, I run in surface conduit in case I ever move. Don't want to leave that stuff behind nor be subject to additional specialized inspections. As much as I like to think this is permanent and I don't want to move, all it takes is a plant closing to turn all nature of things upside down.

I took advantage of the overhead attic space to try to keep it clean and run large vertical PVC-rigid conduits up thru the drywall and into the attic space. There's not much that can go out in the low-height truss area anyway. NEMA-1 boxes at the bottom just for pulling wires into and for going in different directions from there. Of around 8" x 8" x 6" are connected by a "trunk line" that is 2" dia that runs more or less around the perimeter of the attic in a modified "C" shape connecting all the vertical drops (tees from the trunk). Plenty of room for pulling any kind of wiring. As you probably know, there is not a good day during the year to work in the attic, as its always too hot or too cold. But I got it done somehow

Back to the overhead lights, its also my preference to install a quad box at every bulb-base (Edison base, etc) in the ceiling. This way if I desire to change a single CFL bulb over to a heavy task light like a 4-bulb T5HO then I simply unwire the bulb-base, install a duplex outlet in its place, and plug in the big task light. Lots of flexibility gained for a little planning.

Relative to $10/hr labor...I don't even know what kind of simple job you could get done for that wage. Certainly not brainless work like cutting grass or washing cars.

I got a strong high school kid to do heavy lifting outside, in the middle of the winter, for that.

Hell, I worked for that at my last job!......Machining!

Bill

 

[matt_i]

I don't want to start a war but is machining "loading the next piece(s) of stock, closing the doors, pushing green button, and sit to wait for program to end, rinse and repeat?

I don't know any skilled-trade machinists running manual machines for that in 2015, however if you are willing at that wage and can make parts to print I would hire you full time.

 

[bczygan]

I don't want to start a war but is machining "loading the next piece(s) of stock, closing the doors, pushing green button, and sit to wait for program to end, rinse and repeat?

I don't know any skilled-trade machinists running manual machines for that in 2015, however if you are willing at that wage and can make parts to print I would hire you full time.

Would have loved the load and unload..........No, it was a manual B'port with one axis of auto feed, and a lathe with an archaic language. Lots of milling and drilling and sawing and tapping and turning and grinding.

Of course there was lots of grunt work, chopping steel to rough length on the horiz. bandsaw etc. Lots of "Carpentry" work. And also deliveries. But also some parts for machines and even some airplane building. All the variety a 1 1/2 man shop affords. I was the 1/2. And the first year I worked for $8. When I came back, he forgot what I was getting and accidentally gave me $10.

But then, I was a newbie. Had never done it before. It was fun while it lasted, but the guy still owes me $1,400.

Bill

 

[drivesitfar]

BCZ: since i know you are older than i am what year are you talking about? and if it was recently was it because the job didn't end up paying as much as projected or took longer? I've worked many days for free because i made a mistake and ate it.

i worked for $1.65 per hour and drove 30 minutes each way to get $2.10 per hour in 1972.

anyway i don't have too many college or high school or even middle school kids in my neighborhood since half my neighbors are in their late 70's and older and to get a good worker around here it isn't $10 per hour. they just raised the minimum wage to $15 which i'd still be willing to pay for somebody to work 60 minutes in an hour and not text or use the internet or phone or sit around.

Kevin: just curious how much the monthly rental on the Porta crapper costs because i need to hire out a few projects and not having all the dirt and **** in the house would be nice.

 

[Richard Cranium]

so when does the framing start?

 

[bczygan]

BCZ: since i know you are older than i am what year are you talking about? and if it was recently was it because the job didn't end up paying as much as projected or took longer? I've worked many days for free because i made a mistake and ate it.

i worked for $1.65 per hour and drove 30 minutes each way to get $2.10 per hour in 1972.

anyway i don't have too many college or high school or even middle school kids in my neighborhood since half my neighbors are in their late 70's and older and to get a good worker around here it isn't $10 per hour. they just raised the minimum wage to $15 which i'd still be willing to pay for somebody to work 60 minutes in an hour and not text or use the internet or phone or sit around.

Kevin: just curious how much the monthly rental on the Porta crapper costs because i need to hire out a few projects and not having all the dirt and **** in the house would be nice.

It was a set hourly wage. It was a year and a half ago and a year before that. I wanted to learn some machining and he wanted cheap labor. Didn't work all the time. It went with the work flow. But was pretty steady until near the end. Was worth it to me. But near the end it was mostly production and not much new learning. He's one of those guys who is always operating on other peoples money. I still got some skills out of it, and an interest that I still have..

Anyway, sorry for the hijack. Looking forward to Kevin's progress.

Bill

 

[Kevin54]

BCZ: since i know you are older than i am what year are you talking about? and if it was recently was it because the job didn't end up paying as much as projected or took longer? I've worked many days for free because i made a mistake and ate it.

i worked for $1.65 per hour and drove 30 minutes each way to get $2.10 per hour in 1972.

anyway i don't have too many college or high school or even middle school kids in my neighborhood since half my neighbors are in their late 70's and older and to get a good worker around here it isn't $10 per hour. they just raised the minimum wage to $15 which i'd still be willing to pay for somebody to work 60 minutes in an hour and not text or use the internet or phone or sit around.

Kevin: just curious how much the monthly rental on the Porta crapper costs because i need to hire out a few projects and not having all the dirt and **** in the house would be nice.

I called around to a couple places and the prices are all over the place. One place wanted $175/month. Way too much for a plastic porta-*******. I got this one for $85/month, and they come once a week to pump it out and put in new chemicals and ******* paper. So if you need one, either look in the Yellow Pages or do a look online for Porta-Jons, Porta-Potties, Portable Toilets in your area.

so when does the framing start?

Craig had a concrete job to do this week and framing was going to start next week BUT.......Bill has put a halt to that as we are getting the rains off of it, and we are supposed to have rain for the next 7 days. If Craig can get his concrete poured this week, we can probably work in the afternoons as it seems the rains quit by mid morning then start back up at night.

I do have MOST of the lumber but will need some odd and end stuff. I have the studs, plates, braces, and all of the OSB. Enough to get started I guess. I need to go pick up some windows today and a door and have them here, plus I need to pick up my sill seal which they forgot to add to my list. I may just pull some lumber and build a couple of walls for my bumpout here in the garage, and have those done so all we have to do is stand them up and bolt them down.

 

[drivesitfar]

Kevin: thanks for the head up on the #1 and #2 disposal rentals. I've heard they were about $100 per month around here too. since i live in the city i wouldn't be surprised if i didn't have the local street people using mine if i didn't lock it.

if your weatherman went to the same school as the ones we have here that predict rain almost every day you might actually have some sunshine this week.

do you own a nail gun or are you thinking about hand nailing? I've heard mention of you having a sore or injured arm so be careful with those tall walls if you don't have any help moving them around.

good luck

 

[Kevin54]

Kevin: thanks for the head up on the #1 and #2 disposal rentals. I've heard they were about $100 per month around here too. since i live in the city i wouldn't be surprised if i didn't have the local street people using mine if i didn't lock it.

if your weatherman went to the same school as the ones we have here that predict rain almost every day you might actually have some sunshine this week.

do you own a nail gun or are you thinking about hand nailing? I've heard mention of you having a sore or injured arm so be careful with those tall walls if you don't have any help moving them around.

good luck

I have help and I have a tractor with a loader, so with that, I think I can get a little bit done. And no, I don't have a air nailer but I may buy one, unless the weather changes and Craig gets he 'crete poured and gets back down here. He has air nailers and roofing nailers.

 

[drivesitfar]

Kevin: one thing i haven't asked or noticed you mentioning, but are you planning on putting your compressor outside or is that what part of the bump out is for? it might be a good idea to frame in a little room off the back of the bump out with a roof on it if your bench is pretty much the size of the bumpout so your compressor and it's noise are not always inside the shop if you use it much.

sorry if this has been discussed already and originally i guess i was thinking that's what the bumpout was for.

i don't use my little nailers often, but when i need to put in a little molding or something they really come in handy. when i eventually get a big compressor i'll probably buy a big nailer too because my elbows are not getting any younger.

 

[Kevin54]

The bumpout is for my roller boxes, overhead cabinets, and workbench. I hadn't give it a thought about putting the compressor over there, but may have to give that some serious thought. Thanks for the idea.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I like the idea of some basic wiring (110vac outlets at regular intervals, overhead "house lights" to give basic lighting for walking around) in the walls & ceilings. However anything 3phase powering machines or heavy amp circuits for compressors or welders, I run in surface conduit in case I ever move. Don't want to leave that stuff behind nor be subject to additional specialized inspections. As much as I like to think this is permanent and I don't want to move, all it takes is a plant closing to turn all nature of things upside down.

Matt posted about the same that I would do. All 110V in the walls and 220V in conduit. I would probably put a 110 in conduit running down from the ceiling to to a spot on the lift.

 

[Kevin54]

Matt posted about the same that I would do. All 110V in the walls and 220V in conduit. I would probably put a 110 in conduit running down from the ceiling to to a spot on the lift.

I'm going to have to get things down on paper as to what I need and where.. I may just move my air compressor from where it's at into the bumpout, so I will need 220 in there. The machines are hooked to 220, but I may rearrange them. So many things to do

 

[drivesitfar]

Kevin: do you have about 3 feet from the bump out to the back of the house? maybe a door inside the bump out and frame in a little room for the compressor while you are framing. one reason is to get the noisy thing out of your work area and another is your bump out i'm guessing is already going to be full with your bench and tool box. you could probably even give it a little block or poured cement foundation. do you have a 220 you can put in that corner? I've seen many compressors hard wired (piped) from the outside with plugs inside the shop and especially in winter time the shop is fairly quiet. if you have the compressor piped all around the shop you can eliminate that long hose laying around and becoming a tripping obstacle.

Maybe some of the guys following your thread might have some ideas or pictures to post.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Oh and I guess it would depend on what you're covering the walls with. If it's something flat like OSB/plywood/drywall, I'd most definetly go in the wall. If you were using ribbed metal on the wall, I'd consider conduit for all of it.

 

[matt_i]

Relative to planning electricity, I find it really difficult to plan where everything is going to go in a fresh space in a shop, especially a machine shop where you have clearance issues with moving tables, long pieces of stock, electrical panel access, change the V-belts, access oil ports, etc, etc etc. It takes some tweaking and adjusting of the layout, and then you discover what you most wanted in life was a horizontal mill, so you have to rejigger the layout to horn in a new machine (could be any garage accessory or gasoline powered toy) and suddenly your perfectly planned electrical layout is bust.

At times its proposed to bury conduits in the concrete floor prior to pouring and I always urge no (!) for exactly the same reasons. The future is hard to predict...

The need for 110vac outlets won't change, putting those at regular intervals is generally perfectly acceptable and will suit many configurations, power strips and cords generally reach an extra couple of feet.

A surface-mounted conduit run, either EMT or PVC is cheap enough and fairly easy to modify, the biggest pain is pulling wires in and out, but its just work. Its nice to have a wiring diagram as the setup gets more and more complex because if you are middle-aged like me, what's crystal clear, etched-in-stone today will be a bit fuzzy next year without regular review. Paperwork helps bridge this gap until we can be fitted with USB drives thru the outer wall of our skulls !?!?!?

 

[Kevin54]

Oh and I guess it would depend on what you're covering the walls with. If it's something flat like OSB/plywood/drywall, I'd most definetly go in the wall. If you were using ribbed metal on the wall, I'd consider conduit for all of it.

Relative to planning electricity, I find it really difficult to plan where everything is going to go in a fresh space in a shop, especially a machine shop where you have clearance issues with moving tables, long pieces of stock, electrical panel access, change the V-belts, access oil ports, etc, etc etc. It takes some tweaking and adjusting of the layout, and then you discover what you most wanted in life was a horizontal mill, so you have to rejigger the layout to horn in a new machine (could be any garage accessory or gasoline powered toy) and suddenly your perfectly planned electrical layout is bust.

At times its proposed to bury conduits in the concrete floor prior to pouring and I always urge no (!) for exactly the same reasons. The future is hard to predict...

The need for 110vac outlets won't change, putting those at regular intervals is generally perfectly acceptable and will suit many configurations, power strips and cords generally reach an extra couple of feet.

A surface-mounted conduit run, either EMT or PVC is cheap enough and fairly easy to modify, the biggest pain is pulling wires in and out, but its just work. Its nice to have a wiring diagram as the setup gets more and more complex because if you are middle-aged like me, what's crystal clear, etched-in-stone today will be a bit fuzzy next year without regular review. Paperwork helps bridge this gap until we can be fitted with USB drives thru the outer wall of our skulls !?!?!?

I'll try to answer both in one reply. I do plan on having corrugated metal in the new part (large addition). Currently I have outlets in the existing portion in the corrugated metal. If I keep my outlets lower, I may just surface mount in conduit. I will most likely only have 110 in the new section except one 220 line for a lift, and I can run a secondary outlet off of that for anything else I may need. There will be no machinery in the new addition.

In my existing garage, I have 220 outlets and corded plugs on the machines, so nothing is hard wired except for my lathe. The grinder, and both mills have cords. I never use both mills at once, so I just unplug and plug in whichever mill I am using. I'd like to sell my CNC and retrofit my other mill to make it CNC, but that is on down the road.

Outlets in the ceiling will be flush mounted in the drywall and NOT run through conduit. The front wall of the addition had outside outlets, so I can cut a box into the wall now as they will be inside. In the bumpout, I can piggy back off of the outlets in the garage now, and just run some other outlets on the other side of the wall. Those will be in the wall. I may have to run ceiling lights off of those outlets also, so I can put in a switch for the lights as I will need a constant hot wire over to there.

I don't want to do it, but I may have to put in a larger breaker box. Right now, I am running off of a 60 amp breaker in the house box down to my garage. The box in y garage has places for 8 breakers and is currently full. Two spaces are for my 220, and the other six are for the 110. I like to not put too much on one breaker, and I like to keep walls and areas segregated so I can kill one breaker to kill a wall, or kill the ceiling lights. So what I need is an electrician to do this after I figure out what I want where. I think in the new addition, some, if not most will be ran in conduit underneath the chair rail or border on the corrugated metal. Notice I said "I think" as I haven't really made up my mind completely yet. I'll have to wait until I get things framed in to see what is actually going to happen. The bumpout will all be in the wall though.

BTW......I did speak with Craig this morning, and as far as he knows, and weather permitting, framing will commence on Monday. He is going to try to get his concrete poured today as it isn't supposed to rain until later tonight, then he'll clean things up tomorrow. He doesn't do weekends unless it is a complete necessity. So Monday, I should have some good pics......hopefully

 

[Richard Cranium]

Must be a day of rest for Kevin, He is not on line, and his contractor won't be back until Monday, He must be mowing...lol

 

[JC23]

Must be a day of rest for Kevin, He is not on line, and his contractor won't be back until Monday, He must be mowing...lol

Naw, he's thinking, planning and scheming!

 

[Kevin54]

Must be a day of rest for Kevin, He is not on line, and his contractor won't be back until Monday, He must be mowing...lol

Nope, none of the above. Trying to get the garage straightened out a little so I can get to my machines. I need to mow, but the monsoons have set in and put a halt to that. Lumber is in the driveway covered up, and I'm getting an itch to pound some nails Hopefully the weather will decide to straighten itself out this weekend and we'll get a little sun to dry things up, and next week will try to be a decent week, but I doubt it. Oh well....I waited a year to get this far, what's a few more weeks?

But here is a pic to tide you over

 

[drivesitfar]

Kevin: looks like you did a great job installing the Tyvek. I hope the weather takes a turn for the better soon so your friend can get his other cement job finished to come back and make that lumber pile look like a garage.

have a great weekend.

 

[Ben Buck]

This is too funny to pass up, **** has anyone or thing stopped and took a DUMP, in the JOHN ?????

I can't stop by, with all this rain, nothing is going on!

 

[Kevin54]

This is too funny to pass up, **** has anyone or thing stopped and took a DUMP, in the JOHN ?????

I can't stop by, with all this rain, nothing is going on!

Nope....no one took a dump yet as far as I know, but I haven't really looked either. Momma's getting anxious to get it out of the front yard though

 

[bczygan]

I feel your anticipation.

This is the point where a building just jumps up out of the ground.

It's where owners are complaining that nothing is happening on their job.

Then BOOM! They have a structure and it's weathered in. They are happy as hell and ready to move in.

But then the majority of the work is still ahead.....

My favorite part is when the framing is up but no sheathing. The bones define the spaces, but it still feels so open to the outside. When the sheathing goes on, the spaces get small and dark in comparison. And when they are drywalled and the rooms filled, everything becomes tiny.

Happy for you. You'll be swimming in space for a while. I forgot what your new spaces are going to be for. Will have to read the thread again. But that's a nice big addition to the existing space.

Bill

 

[Kevin54]

I feel your anticipation.

This is the point where a building just jumps up out of the ground.

It's where owners are complaining that nothing is happening on their job.

Then BOOM! They have a structure and it's weathered in. They are happy as hell and ready to move in.

But then the majority of the work is still ahead.....

My favorite part is when the framing is up but no sheathing. The bones define the spaces, but it still feels so open to the outside. When the sheathing goes on, the spaces get small and dark in comparison. And when they are drywalled and the rooms filled, everything becomes tiny.

Happy for you. You'll be swimming in space for a while. I forgot what your new spaces are going to be for. Will have to read the thread again. But that's a nice big addition to the existing space.

Bill

Damn right I'll be SWIMMING in space If this damn rain doesn't stop my wood will be rotted before it ever goes up

I know what you mean about the framing and being the bones of the space. Myself, I think a lot of framing is artwork if it is of a large size. And yes, once you but the skin on the bones, it does get smaller real fast.

As far as the size and what it is for......the front addition is going to be 28'x36'. This will be for a lift and parking. Possibly a small bench, but other than that, just some pics on the wall, and maybe a taller shelf for some collectibles.

The bumpout on the side is going to be 24'x7'. This is where my rolling boxes will go and my overhead cabinets, along with a bench that will be 24' long. By doing this, it clears up my existing garage for my two mills, lathe, and surface grinder, plus allows me a space to park my Cub Cadet CUT in the winter along with the John Deere Garden Tractor. My Cub has had to sit out in the winter along with my truck, and it now shows. I'm not used to vehicles sitting outside going to hell. So now I'll have room for everything and with a lift, I'll no longer have to get down on the floor. I may have to sit on a stool of some sort as I will only have 10' walls with scissor trusses, but with shot knees, and one good arm, the days of crawling around underneath on a floor is history

 

[Zeke]

I used to tell people that the addition was going to look small (slab or floor only), big (walls framed), small again (drywall up) and lastly just right when decorated.

 

[JC23]

Lemme be da foist to say, 'Go get em, this week, Kevin!'

 

[Thumper68]

Looking forward to some great progress this coming week, I'm praying that the rain gods avoid you!

 

[Toolfool]

I'm still unemployed, and my best friend lives in Cincinnati.

 

[Kevin54]

No framing today. The rains put Craig behind by a day, so framing will commence tomorrow. Luckily we had a nice dry day yesterday as momma and I got all 9 acres mowed. Tomorrow is showing a 40% chance of rain, so hopefully it will hold off until at least evening.

Trusses were ordered last week and they tried to tell me a month. WTF? When I first spoke with them, the standard is two weeks, so I told them I wanted them within two weeks. That would make it July 6th. I wanted to get the bumpout done first, and those are 24' 4/12 trusses, which most places carry in stock, except where I get my lumber. The bumpout should be framed tomorrow, but now I have to wait to get it under roof. Oh well....what's another two weeks on top of a year of waiting?

So no pics until tomorrow.....hopefully. But a good portion of today is shot anyways. I had to take the dogs to the groomers, and I have a dental appointment here in a short. I want to be here if there is construction going on. Plus I am not only the GC, I am the designated Gofer also.

 

[drivesitfar]

Kevin: 30,000 views so far and you don't have any lumber on your addition tells me you have a lot of friends here on GJ.

good luck big guy and you didn't mention if you did the Tyvek or if you had your guy or neighbor kid do it. it looks great BTW.

cheers

 

[theoldwizard1]

Looking forward to some great progress this coming week, I'm praying that the rain gods avoid you!

Not looking good.

 

[theoldwizard1]

... I am not only the GC, I am the designated Gofer also.

Always true !

 

[captain14]

He will probably have clear weather when he's stuck inside doing the interior work.
Never fails.

Hope you do have some clear weather the next 2 weeks Kevin.

 

[Beach Dude]

Kevin: 30,000 views so far and you don't have any lumber on your addition tells me you have a lot of friends here on GJ.

good luck big guy and you didn't mention if you did the Tyvek or if you had your guy or neighbor kid do it. it looks great BTW.

cheers

Always liked reading his post's, a upbeat guy plus being a transplanted midwest farm boy, can relate with the weather.

Hang in there Kevin.

R.J.

 

[MP&C]

It's coming along nicely Kevin!

 

[RivennHewn]

Then BOOM! They have a structure and it's weathered in. They are happy as hell and ready to move in.

But then the majority of the work is still ahead.....

The framing always looks impressive going up, then the work starts.

 

[Kevin54]

Framing will commence today!!!! It didn't happen yesterday as the rains put a damper on Craigs end, but he is coming down today. The bumpout gets framed up first.