Kickback on Camera

[Tom Hintz]

I posted a story and video about kickbacks and while this is about woodworking tools what happens demonstrates the power of power tools as well as the speed and force at which accidents can happen. I intended to recreate a kickback and even with the planning and knowing what was about to happen, I very nearly gut hurt badly. If I was not able to see the video afterward I would have never believed how my hand was drawn to the blade and how fast the whole thing happens.
Since posting this video I have received literally hundreds of emails from people going to reinstall the safety guards on their machines. It was very dumb of me to try this but in the end, it produced some dramatic video that is making my point.

See the story and video

 

[Jack Olsen]

That's a very sobering, and effective, video. Thanks for posting it.

 

[Hiball]

That's a very sobering, and effective, video. Thanks for posting it.

+1 Coming from someone who is getting started in Woodworking ive been Reading Books from cover to cover trying to learn from other peoples mistakes and Familiarize myself with Proper/Safe Operation of these Big Powertools. To the OP.. I guess if you can save 1 person from missing a Digit or 2 you've accomplished your goal, But.. Damn! That was Spooky in Slo-mo.

BTW.. Nice Job on the Video's, I'm Enjoying your "Basic" Video Section and quickly added the site to my Favorites.

 

[chickenhauler]

I never heard of a riving knife or blade guard on a table saw. The one I use is older than I am and doesn't have any safety things on it. Kind of amazing I never got hurt using it as a kid because I did a lot of dumb things in my dad's basement workshop. Those little push things look kind of neat for routering, but I'll stick to my scrap wood sticks on the table saw.

 

[RVDan]

That was amazing. Thanks!

 

[Steve from Socal]

Another thing you want to do on a table saw is MAKE SURE the fence is NOT PINCHING the blade. Set your fence to have at least a 1/16" clearance on the back side of your blade. The offset will NOT affect the straightness of your cut and, it will prevent upcuts on the back as well as grabbing.

I don't do hobby wood working but I ran a large wood shop for several years and was a partner in a saw shop.

Steve

 

[RobSmith]

Those pusher handles are pretty lame. I'm no wood worker (steel is good) but I was always told.. when using a table circular saw,to use a pusher stick and a fence height guide to hold the timber down. Those little handles bring you too close to the blade.

 

[TommyD]

That's why they are called accidents...

Years ago as an apprentice tool and die maker, I quickly learned the importance of proper direction to feed a piece of material in relation to cutter rotation. Undie staining to be sure if that is the least of the problems.

I guess I really should but my blade guard back on...I've seen so many peoiple that have them off, like me. Thanks for the sobering reminder

 

[Keep]

Leave it to a Cheese Head

I bet you were right about changing your shorts! Scary stuff there.

I always remember the movie I was shown on the first day of "shop class" with the guy being impaled by the long piece of wood. That was 25 + years ago and it still sticks in my mind.

 

[Syndicate]

I am glad you did not injure yourself while trying to help others. This is a great video of "What not to do" while operating machinery. Whether you are an idiot or not is not for me to decide. I think you were a brave soul for doing that. I just hope that in the future, you are safer in your approach to show what can happen if you make a mistake. My Craftsman table saw is now getting some much needed plates and guards installed. Thank you.

 

[mbatarga]

1/16" clearance on the back side of the blade is going to cause too many other problems. You do need clearance, but a playing card's thickness is plenty. Without a guard or riving knife, a kickback can still occur.

 

[54FordPanel]

Wow, that was amazing how it pulled your hand towards the blade. Thanks for posting, duly noted.

 

[Tech Guy]

I put my guard back on a few years ago after a nasty kick back. Scared the hell out of me. Thanks for posting the video.

 

[35mm]

Reminds me of the Sawstop. This has been around for a while but it is amazing.

 

[tdkkart]

Our shop teacher in HS tried to show us a kickback one day, and then he tried again, and again, and again, couldn't make it happen.

Fifteen minutes later he's pushing a piece of wood through when suddenly the clock on the wall 12ft behind him was GONE!!! His piece of wood had grabbed, flew out under his arm and destroyed the big clock on the wall.

"You see what can happen!!!"

Made a mark in my mind that I won't forget.

I tend to agree with those that say the push paddles are dangerous in themselves. No matter the method, you shouldn't have you fingers that close to the blade EVER. As we've seen, the push blocks do very little to protect your fingers.

 

[Mike662]

Wow, great video. Thanks for posting.

I've had a piece of plywood kick back and hit me square in the gut. Happened amazingly quickly and hurt for a while afterwards.

Add me to the list of people who don't like those "push paddles" on a table saw. I have a few push sticks that I've made out of wood. I cut them out sort of like this, so that part of it "hooks" over the top of the workpiece. Plus it keeps my hand a good distance from the blade.

I've always been told to keep two fingers hooked on the far side of the fence if you need to have your hands anywhere near the blade, but even that's not a guarantee your hand won't be pulled in to the blade.

Safety features are there for a reason, obviously!

 

[58Yeoman]

What gets me in the video is that it says that Steve Gass is a lifelong woodworker, but he stands right behind the blade. My shop teacher in HS told us to always stand off to the side in case the blade catches the wood. You'd think he would know better.

On the other hand, I've always wondered how those saw stops worked...really cool.

 

[rlitman]

First, let me say THANK YOU! That is a fantastic demonstration of what can happen.

Like a lot of other people here, I've always used long push sticks (with the stepped end like Mike662 describes). I prefer my push sticks to be made from cedar. That way, if the blade somehow contacts the stick, it's more likely to just remove a piece, than move the stick.

Anyway, back to your video. That's a great example of a kickback in a short piece of stock that rotates into the blade, but I've seen a few happen with long pieces of stock too. In those cases, the long piece shot out from the blade like a spear, and a riving knife would have done nothing to help. The saw operator at one time (not myself) was only saved from broken ribs by a seriously heavy leather apron. Even with a riving knife, the wood can be lifted by the rear teeth of the blade, and if it can drop down onto the top teeth, it is going to fly.

Avoiding injury has more to do with proper saw technique, and proper saw setup.
The technique involves a stance that keeps you out of the direction the blade is spinning (that is the direction the piece will most likely be propelled), keeping your weight off your hands (so if a push block slips, you don't fall on the blade), and keeping control over the workpiece (how this is accomplished depends on many factors).

Having the fence parallel to the blade is critical. Turning your fence out at the back can just cause the wood to bind up on the side of the blade away from the fence. That's just as dangerous. Your fence MUST not angle from the blade more than the amount that the blade's teeth extend from the disc. If a part of the wood contacts the disc of the blade, it's likely to be pushed by friction out into the teeth into an uncontrollable kickback.

One thing I've seen that can cause issues, is improper alignment of the blade insert. That should be slightly underneath the table in the front, and slightly higher than the table in the rear. If it is beneath the table in the rear, the workpiece can get stuck on that edge, and be forced into the blade.

 

[c_mccann]

#1 cause of kickbacks- dull blades or too fast of feed into the saw. Have had 2 major kickbacks in my years, one while ripping a 4x12, and one while ripping a taper leg on a jig with curly maple. One I can attribute to to fast a feed and inexperienced receiver, and the other was just dealing with a taper jig and all it's wonderfulness, lol... The riving knife is good because it prevents the wood from bending as you rip it, slow the feed speed and you can see the wood bend and adjust your grasp on the material. Great video, very true!

 

[porphyre]

First, let me say THANK YOU! That is a fantastic demonstration of what can happen.

+1 Thanks, Tom!

If a picture is worth a thousand words, that video was a million. The look on your face after it happened was priceless.

Very informative video and a great addition to NewWoodworker.com. Glad you weren't hurt.

 

[akapero]

Great video.

 

[SgtRauksauff]

good video. I've never seen a blade guard/riving knife on any table saw that I've ever used in my life, including a college shop that I used to build sets for the theater.

I think that maybe the biggest thing is to respect the tool you're about to use, know about it, and just be aware of what it can do. Thanks to this video, I'm more aware than I was.

 

[Falcon67]

Yeow. I have used push sticks forever, which is what my grandad and dad used - and they had all their fingers. I use a stout stick about 12" long with a notch in the end and use it anytime my fingers will even think about being close to the blade.

 

[newlywv]

I had a bad kickback a few years ago. Piece of red oak hit my safety glasses and gouged out a chunk in front of my eye. The glasses then was pushed against the bone above my eye socket. I seen stars like in cartoons. I have never been hit so hard. I had to go to the emergency room and get some stitches. Now my guards are back in place and I am very lucky.
I couldn't sit still and watch that video.
Rich

 

[evildky]

scary, I was ripping a full sheet of plywood years ago, i was feeding and a buddy was catching, I had pushed the piece past the blade when my buddy twisted the board a bit to take it off and it caught the blade and kicked back and hit me in the stomach nocking the air out of me, notwhere near the blade but still a painful lesson of respect for table saws

 

[ishiboo]

Thanks for sharing... a definite reminder of what can happen, and it's shocking how close you got to being a carney.

Our shop teacher in HS tried to show us a kickback one day, and then he tried again, and again, and again, couldn't make it happen.

Fifteen minutes later he's pushing a piece of wood through when suddenly the clock on the wall 12ft behind him was GONE!!! His piece of wood had grabbed, flew out under his arm and destroyed the big clock on the wall.

"You see what can happen!!!"

Made a mark in my mind that I won't forget.

I tend to agree with those that say the push paddles are dangerous in themselves. No matter the method, you shouldn't have you fingers that close to the blade EVER. As we've seen, the push blocks do very little to protect your fingers.

Ours was talking about kickbacks, and to shock us threw a piece of wood as hard as he could side armed against the melamine laminated shop cabinets with his hand. Ended up putting a huge dent in the cabinet and scared the **** out of us. I'll never forget that.

My 4100 has the riving knife and blade guard, and I use them all the time. To me it's like wearing a seatbelt - it's really a VERY minor inconvenience and the safety improvement is night and day.

It's also very easy to put on/take off when you have to make a cut that doesn't go all the way through.

 

[Tom Hintz]

I never heard of a riving knife or blade guard on a table saw. The one I use is older than I am and doesn't have any safety things on it. Kind of amazing I never got hurt using it as a kid because I did a lot of dumb things in my dad's basement workshop. Those little push things look kind of neat for routering, but I'll stick to my scrap wood sticks on the table saw.

I used the push block because it gave be a positive grip on the wood so that I cojld turn it into the blade exactly when I wanted to. I also was able to be pulling back towards me (away from the blade) and just rotate the nose of the piec into the blade. that way all of my muscle tension was back towards me but as you saw, that slmost was not enough. We really did try to plan this out but there just wasn't anything previous info to work with.

 

[bad_idea]

That made me a little queasy. Now I am going to go out to the garage to finish building some cabinets. Ugh..

 

[Sunstealer73]

I had a similar kickback around 15 years ago when ripping a slight edge off some red oak. I had been using a stack dado and realized I missed one rip cut and didn't bother putting the blade guard back on. The board caught and kicked back just like in the video, but I wasn't able to keep my left thumb off the blade. It happened so fast, I almost didn't realize what had just occurred. I only lost about 1/2" off my thumb, but I learned a valuable lesson that day.

 

[Train]

Those push blocks aren't very safe in my opinion. A little dust gets between the rubber and the work piece and there's very little grip. As far as push sticks go I always make mine out of hardwood and put the notch in them. Years ago I was using one made out of 3/4 inch plywood, that's what all the sticks in the shop were made out of. The stick contacted the blade and shattered, sending a small piece into the palm of my hand. I don't know if a hardwood stick would have fared any better but I just trust it more. I also use the fingers over the fence method for smaller stuff and I stand directly in front of the blade. If your standing off to the side then you can't push straight into the direction of travel, you're actually pushing at an angle away from you.

The push stick accident ...... a woman in the shop actually grabbed me by the shoulder from behind to get my attention !!!!

 

[Sureshot]

I've got a scar from a serious kick back a few years ago trying to bevel toward the fence. The piece was small and needed to finish a 12 sided "post" for the wife. I was using a stick but the piece was almost through and came straight back out. If it had been any smaller I am sure I would have been harpooned. Broke the skin and left some serious bruising. Thank goodness the saw table is not lower or I would have been a permanent soprano. Almost dropped me as it was.
Of couse before I did it I knew it was not ideal but I was setup and it seemed the easiest way to "hurry" and get done.

 

[Zeppe807]

That's a very sobering, and effective, video. Thanks for posting it.

Can't say it any better. I appreciate the thought and reason that you would do that type of video.

Thanks for the safety memo for the day.


Joe Zeppe

 

[Duker]

My grandfather (was) and father is an avid woodworker. In my fathers shop is a hole in the wall that was created by me when ripping some 2x4's down to 1x2's and one kicked backed and stuck in the 1x6 pine T&G wall like a spear. That tends to stick (pun intended) with you when you ponder about what would have happened if I had been standing in the way.

A few years later, my father (who practices safety more than anyone I know) was pushing a piece of wood through the saw with a push stick and lost the tip of his middle finger before he knew what happened. Even after the accident we went back and checked to see that the blade was set to the proper height, there were no signs of kick back so the conclusion was that somehow he dipped his hand but still not sure.

Needless to say, when the sawstop saw came out my dad was the first one to order one and I now have one in my shop as well. It doesn't eliminate practicing safety but it does offer a little more peace of mind.

Thanks for posting the video... what might be a little bruise to the ego might help someone else save a digit and maybe more. That's a pretty good trade off in my mind.

 

[NUTTSGT]

We were taught in high school to stand to the side of the blade incase it kicked back. One day it did kick back on another guy. It hit the metal lockers behind the table saw (6-8ft) and left a small dent.

I have a set of plastic push sticks that I bought at HF. One of them has a small notch out of the end, the width of the saw blade. I always figured that would have been in my finger if I wasn't using them.

 

[yucholian]

Even with all the safety precautions, danger is never eliminated.
I upgraded my tablesaw 4 years ago, Sawstop.
Hoepfully I never need its blade stop feature but if I do, it's there.
Riving knife is a must for all cuts.

 

[Steevo]

Tom,
Thanks for the video and the safety lesson. Like most of us, I have been guilty of running a table saw with no blade guard for many years, often pushing goods between fence and blade with no stick at all.
The only way that video could have been more forceful or educational is if there were a couple of fingertips rolling across the table after the incident. Let's hope you never capture THAT on film, but if you do, please post it!

 

[coffeebean]

you might consider that you can use a piece of foam core board for any demonstrations that you would be interested in doing. my shop teacher at cerritos college used that and it made the point just fine. not that I'm recommending it.

cutting things wider than they are long calls for a sled.

then he showed us the crosscut sled that had to weight 10-15 pounds with the arc cut in the bottom. he said he found it under the sink after a Saturday work day for the students where a TA had been the supervisor. he said he never did get the story about how it happened.

most important thing you can do is go and get good training.
dave

 

[cnc-me]

I had a ripping come out of a straight-line ripsaw, the piece got wedged under the
blade and shot back with such force that it peeled the whole top of one of my fingers
back, and still had enough force left, to go through a fiberglass overhead door.
We found the piece laying outside, you could see the teeth marks in it from the blade.
Based on that, we figure the piece was traveling at 120 MPH!
I had to go to the Hospital every day for an IV with antibiotics to keep from
getting infection. A fellow at another company got shot in the arm from a
similar make of saw, I think the piece almost went through his arm.
After that little indecent we put on some serious guarding with
steel anti-kickback fingers in place.


Here is a straight line ripsaw. (This is NOT the brand of saw that caused either of these
two accidents, shown for reference only)

 

[Tom Hintz]

Those pusher handles are pretty lame. I'm no wood worker (steel is good) but I was always told.. when using a table circular saw,to use a pusher stick and a fence height guide to hold the timber down. Those little handles bring you too close to the blade.

I normally do use the push handles at the table saw but those will not tyurn the stock into the blade exactly when I wanted (and needed to know!) so I used the rubber-soled push block. Plus, I was able to actually be pulling on the block back towards myself and away from the blade when I twisted the wood intot he blade. Everybody thought that with that muscle tension coming back to me rather than pushing at the blade that my hand wold jump away from the blade. Keep in mind that as far as we know, nobody has tried this before. I knew it was at best risky but we had thought this out as best we could and that turned out to be not quite enough becuase of the amount of force involved in the actual kickback. Hindsight is perfect and you will never see me do that again!

 

[Tom Hintz]

Note: The requests for the kickback video have far exceeded our ability to deal with individually. I am working around the clock to get a DVD (Blu-Ray also I think) put together and into production that we are going to sell through our store at the lowest price we can and still cover the cost. As soon as this is done we will have it listed in my on line store. We simply cannot handle this on a one-on-one basis anymore.