Kitchen Cabinet Refinishing Fiasco

[Rockuf8]

Priced out a few kitchen cabinet refinishers to have my cherry cabinets converted into an off-white lacquer, glazed finish. Prices ranged from $2,700, to $4k all the way up to $7k. Chose the one I was most comfortable with, which was also the one that offered to come discuss the project in person, as well as the least expensive. Went over everything, explained all trim I added had to be filled and caulked, which included a custom kickplate, lower rail, upper mini crown moudling..etc

The kitchen cabinet doors were taken off site, and I was presented with two sample doors with the actual BM swatches I had chosen. I was told the samples could be changed as many times as it need be, even if it meant 10 color changes, as long as I was happy with the final color before everything was sprayed. I wanted a two tone finish, the uppers and lowers a different color.

The darker cream color for the bottom was a bit darker than the swatch and the color wasn't right, my fault. The second updated cream color they gave me was perfect and I approved it. The lighter color appeared too white and I wanted it slightly creamier. The second sample was perfect, so they went ahead and proceeded to strip and refinish the doors.

Next step was coming on site and spraying the bases. Halfway through the job I'm home on a conf call with work and I hear the owners son yelling and complaining about all the prep work, "this is ridculous, all this caulking, fix this, fix that...it's a $20,000 job we're doing for just $2,000" , he was carrying on like I'm not even home. I'm thinking to myself, seriously? Is this for real? I couldn't believe my ears. I mean afterall, the owners son was here to look the job over ahead of time and we went over ALL THE EXTENSIVE PREP that was required and he assured me it will all be done, no problem. THey assured me I would be able to look everything over BEFORE the top coats went one after the primer to see if I felt anything needed to be filled, or if they missed anything. Never happened, the top coat went on and shortly after the doors were hung, wow.

Well, in the end they didn't caulk everything we agreed on, nor did they add any glazing to the kick plate, the sides or any of the other extra trim I added to the kitchen cabinets, even though they agreed they would. I confront the son he doesn't deny it and even continues to give me major attitude, at one point stomping out of my house, wtf. He had no remorse, made up excuses for everything, meanwhile the father just looked on in fear.

At this point I no longer had any interest in how the job turned out and was disgusted. Something that was something I was looking forward to didn't even matter anymore to me considering how it ended. The owner insisted I make up a checklist of anything I wanted fixed, or resprayed, but I don;t see the son giving a sh*t honestly. They're supposed to come back for a small cabinet with a false front and a 4" filler above where a hood fan is going, but I paid them in full, so hopefully they do keep their word and come back to spray the added small section that was originally included in the initial estimate.

I can't see them getting any referral work when acting in such a way in front of customers in their home like that, it was completely disrespectful and unwarranted.

Now I have to finish the rest of the glazing on my own, I'm better off anyway, this way I can add more caulking and fix it all up right the way it as supposed to be. I'll just buy some latex paint that matches to touch up any caulking to match both cabinet colors.

This was a Angeislist find too, I guess only two favorable reviews I saw on there wasn't a true representation them and their work. Now I need to consider leaving an honest review on Angieslist to warn others.

A few pics of one side of the kitchen.

Before

After

This doesn't look finished in my opinion, the whole cabinet needs glazing.

 

[Highlux]

Did you pay the balance? Work just looks unfinished.
You are the boss....toss them off the job if there is an issue.

Never pay in full. When I billed it was 1/3 1/3 1/3 didnt collect last third till I was completely done and cust was happy.

They cannot place a lien on you if there is not a warning of such action on contract.

 

[Rockuf8]

I paid the balance. Paid $1k up front and just handed them the $1,725. Having them come back in a week or two was my fault since I hadn't finished the woodwork above where the range hood is going that they need to spray.

I came to the conclusion and accepted the fact that I would have to finish the job to get it looking the way I wanted, or deal with the sons bullsh*t which isn't worth the aggravation. He gave me a jar of what he used to add the glazing.

 

[Hornman]

The son intimidated you into doing the work you paid him to do.

Forget Angies list, it is a joke. The contractors pay for good reviews. File a complaint with the Better Business Bureau. That won't get any money back or get your cabinets finished, but it may prevent sonny boy from using his intimidation techniques on anyone else.

 

[nine4gmc]

Prices ranged from $2,700, to $4k all the way up to $7k. Chose the one I was most comfortable with, which was also the one that offered to come discuss the project in person, as well as the least expensive.

You get what you pay for

 

[Rockuf8]

You get what you pay for

Looks like that was the case here. But the other 3 companies weren't very personable when I talked to them.


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[MrMark]

You need a micropinner. Those nail heads are too big and unnecessary. What is "glazing?" You do have a lot of trim and caulk there. Not sure I have ever seen so much.

 

[HMCFab9]

WOW... i'd be PISSED!
Kitchen cabinets are very expensive, but even at the cheap end of the cost spectrum..... that's a ****** job!

 

[Daniel Dudley]

Those will come up, although the caulking is bad. I always do that prep if I am the one doing the cabinet install. I also do all the sanding. The glazing is passable. It's in the range.

The overall effect will be good once you do a little remedial prep and it is completed.

You should not have paid them, and you were there and able to have some input, which you should have given. Now it is time to dwell on what you can change, and move on from what you can't.

That is going to be a great kitchen. Head towards the goal and make it happen.

 

[Rockuf8]

You need a micropinner. Those nail heads are too big and unnecessary. What is "glazing?" You do have a lot of trim and caulk there. Not sure I have ever seen so much.

Wish I had known about micropinner before, I'll look into it for future projects. I know it's a lot of trim, but they saw all of it beforehand, so the problem I have is the complaining during the work knowing what they were walking into. The glazing is the color that was added in the crevices and partially rubbed off for added depth.

WOW... i'd be PISSED!
Kitchen cabinets are very expensive, but even at the cheap end of the cost spectrum..... that's a ****** job!

Hopefully I can make them look decent.

Those will come up, although the caulking is bad. I always do that prep if I am the one doing the cabinet install. I also do all the sanding. The glazing is passable. It's in the range.

The overall effect will be good once you do a little remedial prep and it is completed.

You should not have paid them, and you were there and able to have some input, which you should have given. Now it is time to dwell on what you can change, and move on from what you can't.

That is going to be a great kitchen. Head towards the goal and make it happen.

Thanks, I'm going to try and remove some of the glazing with some mineral spirits, I feel it's too heavy on the lighter cabinets. WIll I be able to remove/lighten some of it after the fact?

 

[JakeKohl]

Looks like that was the case here. But the other 3 companies weren't very personable when I talked to them.


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The thing I learned (the hard way) when hiring contractors for certain aspects of my garage is that personality isn't always a good trait to use when judging a contractor. Subsequently I had to keep reminding myself that I was hiring them to be good at a job - not to be a friend.

 

[SteveCh]

I don't know what glazing means, unless it is a shiny topcoat or something? Whatever glazing means, find out exactly what compound it is and speak with a wood-finishing expert prior to doing anything to alter it.

This might turn out to be a case of live and learn, move on. Hopefully not, but sounds like it. Not sure I'd want the guys back anyway.

 

[Earlsfat]

Man, I am really digging the hell out of that trim and toe kick. VERY nice looking.

 

[SD396]

Sorry to hear about your crappy experience. The kitchen will look nice when properly sprayed. Where I work we spray paint and glaze on doors on a regular basis. The glaze is sprayed on the entire door (or cabinet) then scuff sanded off where you don't want it, then top-coated with clear. The doors and cabinet parts all need to be glazed as the glaze will affect the final color which is why your cabinets are a lighter color than the doors, they weren't glazed at all. If this is how these guys did the glazing you won't be able to remove the glaze, only re-spraying the color and re-glazing will be the only way to change it. Basically starting from scratch. I would make that list of deficiencies and take it to the father and tell him it needs to be made right and that you don't want the son doing it. Your cabinets need to be glazed for it to look right.

 

[Tejaas]

Priced out a few kitchen cabinet refinishers to have my cherry cabinets converted into an off-white lacquer, glazed finish. Prices ranged from $2,700, to $4k all the way up to $7k. Chose the one I was most comfortable with, which was also the one that offered to come discuss the project in person, as well as the least expensive. Went over everything, explained all trim I added had to be filled and caulked, which included a custom kickplate, lower rail, upper mini crown moudling..etc

Your house, your rules, and your the paying customer. I'm sorry you had such a horrible experience...

But I have to say - the original dark walnut-like finish you had originally was perfect.

I'd have just done a nice touch-up on that!





~Tejaas~

 

[Dennis93]

The woodwork is pretty decent for a homeowner, but I have no idea at all why you went to spray them white. They looked way better in the cherry and matched the granite better imo. I would have perhaps just stained the additional molding you put up to match the cabinets.

 

[Rockuf8]

The thing I learned (the hard way) when hiring contractors for certain aspects of my garage is that personality isn't always a good trait to use when judging a contractor. Subsequently I had to keep reminding myself that I was hiring them to be good at a job - not to be a friend.

Very good advice, but it's just easy to write someone off when they aren't at all accommodating, return calls or seem irritable over the phone.

I don't know what glazing means, unless it is a shiny topcoat or something? Whatever glazing means, find out exactly what compound it is and speak with a wood-finishing expert prior to doing anything to alter it.

This might turn out to be a case of live and learn, move on. Hopefully not, but sounds like it. Not sure I'd want the guys back anyway.

Not sure if you're serious or being facetious. Glazing is simply adding a stain to any details on the door, trim or bases after they've dried and been sprayed with lacquer, in this case rubbed off afterwards with a cloth to add depth. It makes the recessed panels, crevices etc stand out more.

Yeah I really don't want them back in my house either. I might ask for the remaining top and bottom lacquers (since I paid for them) and have my painter spray the last corner section above the range hood I have to build.

Man, I am really digging the hell out of that trim and toe kick. VERY nice looking.

Thanks, I thought the cabinets needed something extra. Ignore the trim and large egg and dart crown above the upper cabinets, those will be painted in a semigloss linen color. That trim was painted years ago and no longer like it that way.

Sorry to hear about your crappy experience. The kitchen will look nice when properly sprayed. Where I work we spray paint and glaze on doors on a regular basis. The glaze is sprayed on the entire door (or cabinet) then scuff sanded off where you don't want it, then top-coated with clear. The doors and cabinet parts all need to be glazed as the glaze will affect the final color which is why your cabinets are a lighter color than the doors, they weren't glazed at all. If this is how these guys did the glazing you won't be able to remove the glaze, only re-spraying the color and re-glazing will be the only way to change it. Basically starting from scratch. I would make that list of deficiencies and take it to the father and tell him it needs to be made right and that you don't want the son doing it. Your cabinets need to be glazed for it to look right.

That boat has sailed. It is what it it is and I have to live with it. It's not a $100,000 kitchen (although I am going with high end appliances), so I will have to live with it. I will however fix them as best I can. I already started removing some of the glazing on the uppers with mineral spirits and a soft cloth and it worked great, just thought it was too heavy, I purposely asked for a light glazing.

My wife and I are expecting our first child in 3 months after 2 years of fertility,waiting for an egg donor and paying for most of it out of our own pockets. I'm renovating my entire house from the attic down to the basement laundry room, so I have to move onto the next project!

Your house, your rules, and your the paying customer. I'm sorry you had such a horrible experience...

But I have to say - the original dark walnut-like finish you had originally was perfect.

I'd have just done a nice touch-up on that!


~Tejaas~

I appreciate it, but the dark cabinets in the small kitchen just didn't work for me anymore. Your tastes change, I really prefer the lighter painted look, even for regular furniture, which is why I decided on the change.

The woodwork is pretty decent for a homeowner, but I have no idea at all why you went to spray them white. They looked way better in the cherry and matched the granite better imo. I would have perhaps just stained the additional molding you put up to match the cabinets.

I think the granite blends really nice with the new bottom cabinet color and the travertine, the color on the bottoms is just about perfect in my opinion.

Hey, I learn more and more everyday. I look at trim work I did years ago and think to myself, what was I thinking back then. I picked up tricks from watching a few very good finish carpenters I've hired recently for other projects.

 

[jimzz2006]

no offense, but i liked it before they did anything.

 

[SlappyWhite]

Looked better before. More important, you paid how much to have them painted?

Sure it is more than painted, but in the end it is painted...

 

[Rockuf8]

no offense, but i liked it before they did anything.

The kitchen prior was my design/choices so if anything it's a compliment. Why don't you guys like painted cabinets?

Looked better before. More important, you paid how much to have them painted?

Sure it is more than painted, but in the end it is painted...

Sprayed lacquer is def nicer than hand painted.


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[SweetD]

It doesn't matter what anyone else likes, it's what you like. So hopefully it all works out for you!

I have to say I do like the contrast of the darker cabinets with the lighter countertops with your original setup. But hey, to each his own! Either way, it looks very nice.

Dave

 

[Rockuf8]

I like less contrast, the lighter color makes the kitchen look much bigger than it is and it totally brightened it up too.


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[bczygan]

"I paid them in full"

Why are customers so stupid?

As a builder and contractor, we never paid subcontractors a penny until work was completed, inspected and approved. Even then, 10% was held for one year for warranty work.
Of course, this is all in a written contract.

This is for subcontractors that we had a long history with and who we had worked closely with for decades. Why wouldn't a homeowner do at least the same, to protect themselves when they are dealing with someone they never had used before?

Now, we did have more than one draw for big trades like carpentry etc. But the inspection, approval and withholding all were still a part of things. And they didn't get paid that very day. We had a monthly pay day. They had to get their work done and the inspection and approvals and billing in a timely manner to get paid that month.

And in today's day and age, our contracts had MANY phrases and clauses defining and describing the work the subs did. This is necessary to make sure they did the work to a quality level that had been agreed to. Why would a homeowner do less?

And don't even get me started about owners who do work on a handshake.

You ovbiously got lowest bid work. And a company with structural problems. Should have called a bunch of former customers to see how this company operated. It is one of those transitional companies, where the father is trying to transition the son into running it. So you hired one company, but a different company, with a different idea of what the contract contained, did the work.

For a subcontractor to become one of our tradesmen, there was a long and detailed process to find out everything about the business and the people in it. That way we knew what we were geting. You do know that some contractors have 2 crews, don't you? The professional crew and the "Just dragged out of the bar" crew. Guess which one you get when you choose the low bid.

And the contract needs to have performance benchmarks. Finish early and get a bonus. Finish late and a penalty. Hold up the job too long and you are replaced. We always had backup subs for plan B.

All these things we did to protect the project and make it smooth.

A homeowner needs at least this much protection.

At this point, you have no leverage. But on the good side, you learned a lesson. And even better, by posting, this can serve as a warning to everyone, about how to go about contracting a service.

PS. The above items are even more important when contracting, if you know the person, or God forbid, they are friends or family.

A contract is simply a record of the meeting of the minds between the parties. It needs to be as detailed and clear as possible. Fuzzy or undefined areas are where trouble always develops. In this case, the meeting of the minds was not with the person doing the work.

 

[Rockuf8]

Dang, how long it take you to type all that?


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