kitchen cutlery...yeah it's a tool

[davestlouis]

https://goo.io/KKQVMl

I need some new kitchen knives. The only knife I own that's worth a hoot is from a company called Cutco...great knife but I got on their website and it almost looks like MLM of some sort. Anybody here had a good experience with a particular brand of knife?

 

[krusty the clown]

i use a kershaw filet knife in the kitchen......

 

[davestlouis]

And I'm going to keep this knife thing simple, I'll buy a set, use them for 20 years and buy a new set. I don't want it to turn into another version of my tool obsession, where I'm on a knife forum at all hours of the night, showing off pics of the knives I bought at a garage sale or flea market, discussing production dates.

 

[trainer]

F.**** or chicago cutlery are two names that come to mind

 

[Merkava_4]

Forschner Knives - they are THE best.

http://www.eknifeworks.com/webapp/eCommerce/product.jsp?range=41&Mode=Cat&Cat=67&SKU=F40521

http://www.victorinox.ch/index.cfm?site=victorinox.ch&page=45&lang=E

http://www.victorinox.ch/index.cfm?site=victorinox.ch&page=357&lang=E

http://www.victorinox.ch/index.cfm?site=victorinox.ch&page=53&lang=E

http://www.victorinox.ch/index.cfm?site=victorinox.ch&page=48&lang=E

 

[csquared]

JA Henckels - Pro S (NOT Henckels International).

Great steel. They take a wicked edge. They aren't cheap, but chefs across the globe swear by them. They have been made in Solingen for 277 years.

And I almost hate to mention it... but sharpening. What ever knives you do decide on, prepare to spend hours reading forums on sharpening. It is almost half the fun. Sharp knives are like good ***. There, I said it.

BTW, Knipex (everyone here LOVES Knipex) is about 5 miles NE in Wuppertal. They are another old German company (4th generation, still family owned). Damn Germans, they make such quality stuff.

 

[nextdoorhobo]

wustoff and henckels brands are like mercedes and bmw of kitchen knives... and maybe shun would be the lexus

 

[wilbilt]

We have some Henckels received as wedding gifts 22+ years ago. They are due for sharpening.

Can I do it myself, or should I pay to have it done? I don't like paying to have anything done.

 

[Merkava_4]

My Victorinox knives from Soligen Germany will shave the hair off my arms for testing sharpness.

 

[dirty old man]

^^^ Pay to get it done. Especially if you're not 100% confident. Do you hone the edge each time you use your knives? That will help keep it sharp longer.

I have a set of Messermeisters I got in college. So far they've been great to use. I also have a Henckels honing steel that seems to work fairly well.

http://www.messermeister.com/index.php?act=GetContent&cid=3
HOLY ****, that's my culinary teacher!

 

[Merkava_4]

Do you hone the edge each time you use your knives?

I use Forschner honing steels. If you look at a knife edge under a microscope, the edge will be wavy. The honing steel is for straitening the edge; not for removing material. I've got sharpening steels for putting a new edge on if necessary, but I usually don't let them get to that point.

 

[wilbilt]

I've never honed them.

 

[billymade]

Oh, noooo, I am a kitchen tool freak! Sounds familiar, I can't seem to get enough knives either!!! Knives are not unlike trends in the tool industry; things are going offshore like crazy to keep costs down and increase profits.
After tons of research and trying out different brands I have come down to a couple choices I like and use on a daily basis; plus, some brands thrown in for good measure!

The Teutonic Classics:
********* German knives; here are the most well known brands, the "Snap-on" of Knives in Germany:

Wusthof: http://www.wusthof.com/en/default.asp

Zwilling JA Henckles: http://www.jahenckels.com/

These two above German companies are the "bad boys" of the German knife industry; many claim Wusthof to be superior but many times these arguments go into the "Chevy vs. Ford" type of debate and each side has its specific point of view and for/against arguments.

Not unlike the pro tool industry; these knives come with a Lifetime replacement warranty. They have different lines that are cheaper Asian/Spanish imports but the high end lines are still made in Germany. Typically, any knife with "Solingen, Germany" imprinted on it; historically, has been excellent or at least a guarantee of a good, solid German made knife.

There are many other brands less well known that are used in meat processing industry and lesser expensive brands that are still well made for day to day use...

http://www.fdick.com/images/****-logo.gif

F ****:http://www.fdick.com/

Excellent brand, heavily used in meat processing industry and particularly known for their "sharpening steels" to keep your knife in peak cutting form.

Messermeister: http://www.messermeister.com/
("Knife Master" in english)

Seemingly, less well known of the Solingen, Germany brands; top quality knives!

Forschner by Victorinox: http://www.swissarmy.com/Forschner/Pages/Default.aspx

Made under the famous "swiss army knife" company Victorinox; simple, spartan, plastic handled knives that are inexpensive, good for everyday use and affordable!

How about something from Asia? The high end exotic knives from Japan: Global Knives:

Global Knife Company: http://www.global-knife.com/
Expensive, asian designs, materials, imbued supposedly, with the craft traditions and processes of the Japanese samurai swords (talk about marketing "if they can lop the head off of your enemy; think what they can do for your tomato!"); they also have a unique sharpening style (only one side)....... high end used by famous chefs the world over! I've read articles where people swear once you use a Global you never go back to anything else!


How about a knife made in the good old USA?
I have found one company that I have bought knives from and you can be happy to say are one of the few Cutlery companies that still are truly "MADE IN USA"; DEXTER-RUSSELL!

Dexter-Russell: http://www.dexter-russell.com/default.asp

Heavily used in the restaurant and meat processing industry; I have purchased the new "V-LO" line of knives and have been very happy with them. Believe it or not these knives are surprisingly affordable and while lack the weight and "flash" of German made knives, they are used all day, everyday in restaurants, butchers and all over the food industry!

To purchase these (mostly likely all the other brands mentioned); I would recommend looking in the phone book under your pro restaurant supply houses, it is good excuse to have some fun and check out these stores, they are the "Snap-On truck" of kitchen tool stores!

One thing that may surprise you; restaurant supply stores have better prices then normal specialty/gourmet kitchen supply and department stores; restaurants buy all their stuff at these places, the kitchen utensils, other things are way cheaper and of better quality then any "normal" consumer stores. They are made to handle the hard use of a professional kitchen day in, day out and last for many years to come... Check them out for any type of utensils or tools for the kitchen, prices are lower and the stainless steel made items will last a lifetime; their knife prices, I found beat out the regular stores as well...

A couple online places to look for knives:
http://www.knivesforchefs.com/
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/
http://www.justknives101.com/
tons more vendors here: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&q=professional+kitchen+knives&btnG=Search

Little articles on the basics:
http://www.cookingforengineers.com/article/39/Kitchen-Knives
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...hen-knives/kitchen-knives-1105/how-to-choose/
http://www.goodhousekeeping.com/product-testing/reviews-tests/kitchen-cooking/kitchen-knives-1001
http://reviews.cookingcache.com/german-knives-review.html

Link about asian/japanese knives and how they are unique to the more well known european/german knives:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_kitchen_knives

IF you want to buy USA: I really would check out the Dexter Russell line of knives at your local restaurant supply house; the V-LO line is my new favorite, along with my monster 10" Wusthof cooks knife! Don't be afraid of MSRP pricing of Dexter Russell; they are usually much cheaper prices at the Restaurant Supply stores!

Check out the V-LO here:
http://www.dexter-russell.com/v-lo.asp?group_name=v-lo.asp

Item: 10" Cooks Knife 29253 Prod. No. V145-10CP

 

[dirty old man]

I use Forschner honing steels. If you look at a knife edge under a microscope, the edge will be wavy. The honing steel is for straitening the edge; not for removing material. I've got sharpening steels for putting a new edge on if necessary, but I usually don't let them get to that point.

I know what a honing steel is for When I bought mine, the lady at the register said that they work great! But you really have to put some muscle into it.......

I've never honed them.

You should. Merkava went into way more detail than I wanted to go into

 

[Merkava_4]

But you really have to put some muscle into it.......

I listen for the sound it makes with the edge against the steel. When I have the angle right, I'll hear a shishkkk shishkkk sound; and I just maintain that angle to get the sound.

 

[Bolster]

I'm a FORMER Henckels fan, FORMER Wusthof fan. Problem with these knife makers is they tend to use 420 and 440A steel, which is very stain resistant, but the edge turns easily. Once I got a Spyderco Yang (made of VG-10 steel) I never looked back. Unfortunately the Yang has been discontinued. (Sad.) Probably the best bang-for-the-buck kitchen knife ever made.

I think Kershaw makes some VG-10 kitchen knives, too.

 

[qdvuu]

I have a 25 year old Henckels set that's still going strong, and I do my own sharpening and honing. Working in restaurants in high school and college gave me good insight into the importance of good knives and how to treat them right.

My GF swears by her Cutco set, and I find them to be good, but I prefer the ergonomics of the Henckels over the Cutcos.

If Snap-On would make kitchen knives I bet they'd be instant legends!

 

[kidatari]

It's all about Shun knives, from Kershaw:
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/shunknives.html

 

[bchee]

And I'm going to keep this knife thing simple, I'll buy a set, use them for 20 years and buy a new set. I don't want it to turn into another version of my tool obsession, where I'm on a knife forum at all hours of the night, showing off pics of the knives I bought at a garage sale or flea market, discussing production dates.

That's what you say now, but then pretty soon you'll be like Billymade.

What happens when you find out about Snap on's new line of kitchen knives??

 

[davestlouis]

So far, it looks like Macy's and Dillard's sell JAHenckels,along with Bed Bath and Beyond, nobody local sells F ****, and the Hi Ho Gun Shop in Barry IL is my closest Victorinox cutlery dealer. The notion of a small town gun shop being my best bet for kitchen cutlery amuses me to no end.

 

[wilbilt]

Check out the V-LO here:
http://www.dexter-russell.com/v-lo.asp?group_name=v-lo.asp

Item: 10" Cooks Knife 29253 Prod. No. V145-10CP

Oh, No! It's a soft grip!

I like my Henckels black hard handles!

 

[MAD]

These are made a stone's throw from Mayhew tools in Shelburne Falls MA.

http://www.lamsonsharp.com/

I bought one knife last year that has been great. I will probably pick up another this holiday season. I am sure you can get some Chinese Henckels cheaper though.

 

[billymade]

davestlouis, did you look in the phone book for "restaurant supply" stores?
http://yellowpages.superpages.com/l...G=L&SRC=comwp&C=restaurant+supply&R=N&STYPE=S

 

[Vincent Vega]

We use Henckels. Our chef knife gets daily use and it's 30 years old. I hone it regularly. I don't need to sharpen it very often. The wife doesn't like the handle on the sandwich knife so she bought a Chicago Cutlery for herself. It doesn't hold an edge like the Henckel.. No dishwasher for our knives, hand wash only.

 

[davestlouis]

There are several supply houses, including one whose owner I have dealt with on some repairs on his Lexus. Todays' no good, but one day next week I think I'll drive over to Ford Restaurant Supply and see what goodies they have.

 

[boiler7904]

We registered for Chicago Cutlery when we got married two years ago. My wife was going to put Henkels or Wustof on the registry until she came to the reality that no one would drop the coin for the expensive knifes and she didn't want to pay for them either. Everything seems to be fine with them after two years and I've only managed to cut myself once.

Check your local Linens N Things stores. They are in bankruptcy so stores are closing. The one down the street from me had everything on sale for 10-20% off starting last week. Discounts are only going to get deeper as they want to clear everything out.

 

[gotmud13613]

My vote goes to Rada

I been using them for years, hold a great edge, easy to sharpen if needed.

Plus they are backed with a lifetime guarantee and made in the good ole USA.

It's kinda hard to find em, but when I do I usually stock up. Just purchased their tomato slicer knife this year and it's a great veggie knife.

I still have their filet knife I was given for a present on my b-day only been resharpened twice in 16 yrs or so, wicked flexible.

http://www.radamfg.com/

 

[Bolster]

The brand doesn't matter as much as you might think. A properly heat treated modern steel is what really counts.

I realize I'm shouting into the wind here, but many "top" brands (Henckels, Wusthof, others) use yesterday's steels, which were good in the 1970s, etc. If you've never used anything better, and you sharpen frequently, 420 and 440A seem like OK steels. Henckels makes an OK knife, not great, not terrible. Sort of "Craftsman" midline quality.

But get a VG-10 Kershaw or Spyderco or other quality brand, and you'll notice a BIG difference in sharpness and ability to hold the edge.

 

[CraigFL]

Noboby likes ceramic Kyocera knives???

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kyky2pcstset.html

 

[Bolster]

Ceramic never really caught on. Initial sharpness advantages outweighed by chipping issues, inflexibility, inability to resharpen...?

 

[csquared]

Just FYI, the Germans and the Japaneese have two different schools of thought about cutlery (suprise, suprise).

Japaneese manufacturers use harder steel that will take a more acute angle for the edge. The trade off is that they are more prone to damage (like chipping or breaking).

The Germans use a softer steel that requires a larger angle. Theoretically, these will be more durable, but you will hone it more often.

All that being said, I haven't used a proper Japaneese knife. We got a set of the Henckels Professional S when I was 12, and it was like someone opened my eyes for the first time. I have never had any desire to switch.

Some reading (strangly similar to this forum):
http://www.cookingforengineers.com/article/129/Chefs-Knives-Rated

Obviously, this guy's oppinion is not the final word on kitchen cutlery, just one of many.

Also, just because I havn't heard anyone define it, the difference between honing and sharpening. Honing does not remove any metal, it only straightens the edge back up. Sharpening is the process of removing metal so you are left with two flat, intersecting planes. I hone when ever I can see light reflected off of the edge, and sharpen maybe once a year (if that).

 

[JakeD]

I have had a Henckels set I got at Target for about 6 years. I want to say they cost about $150-200 for 6 knives and block. Use them all the time, hone them every few uses. Sharpened them a few times. Totally satisfied and would recommend them.

 

[brockstar]

It's funny -we look for and appreciate the old hand tools, but when it comes to knives we start to look for the newest stuff!

I don't mean to stir anything up - just found it funny! Personally, I'm a Wusthof fan.

Would anyone buy a Snap On knife since it would have the Instinct handle ?!?

 

[Vinko]

I need some new kitchen knives. The only knife I own that's worth a hoot is from a company called Cutco...great knife but I got on their website and it almost looks like MLM of some sort. Anybody here had a good experience with a particular brand of knife?

Wusthoff is my favorite. Followed by a French company, which the name escapes right now. Oh yeah, Sabatier I think.

There's a New ENgland knife maker that makes (made) a pretty good one too.

Whatever you do, avoid "stamped" blades and go with the forged with a full tang (knife all the way through handle).

 

[Bolster]

Japaneese manufacturers use harder steel that will take a more acute angle for the edge. The trade off is that they are more prone to damage (like chipping or breaking). The Germans use a softer steel that requires a larger angle. Theoretically, these will be more durable, but you will hone it more often.

And will add this: The Germans have been sitting on their hands for years regarding cutlery steels, whereas the Japanese (and the Americans: all of CPM's upgrade steels) have been pushing the envelope with dramatically improved steels.

The last ten years have seen dramatic advances in cutlery science, most of it due to the new process of particle metallurgy, where alloys are literally forced together in combinations that couldn't otherwise exist in a melted state. I'm oversimplifying, but this allows the new steels to retain much higher amounts of carbon (and other goodies) that create the three desirable traits of a good cutlery steel:

(1) edge holding
(2) toughness (flexibility)
(3) corrosion resistance.

Improvements can be made to all three, so it's not just a simple tradeoff (for example, more edge doesn't have to imply less toughness).

So take the steel that many (most?) Henckels are made of, 420. It's very good at corrosion resistance, good for toughness, and truly craptacular at edge holding (compared to modern steels). Take VG-10. It's good at corrosion resistance (not as good as 420 tho), good for toughness, and great for edge holding.

Because 420 resists corrosion so well, and because it is cheap, and because it can be stamped (it's a soft steel!), it gets used for most kitchen cutlery. It works OK, but it's definitely not premium, no matter who puts their brand on it. I will go so far as to say that Henckel's 420 is probably better than no-name 420 cutlery, because they do a good job of heat (and ice) treat.

By the way, a significant portion of Henckels cutlery is made by Boker.

It's funny -we look for and appreciate the old hand tools, but when it comes to knives we start to look for the newest stuff!

I hear you. I'm pretty retro, and I own a lot of old knives that couldn't keep pace with the newer ones. But I keep the old knives for more historical and sentimental reasons. The one I carry in my pocket for hard use? Generally has either VG-10 steel, or hot-rod ZDP-189 steel.

Treat yourself to a modern steel, you'll be surprised. It definitely ain't your grandfather's blade.

 

[Bolster]

Also, just because I havn't heard anyone define it, the difference between honing and sharpening. Honing does not remove any metal, it only straightens the edge back up. Sharpening is the process of removing metal so you are left with two flat, intersecting planes. I hone when ever I can see light reflected off of the edge, and sharpen maybe once a year (if that).

Listen to this man, he knows what he's talking about!

 

[Major Ramifications]

Do you guys mean to tell me that there is something better our there than my Miracle Balde II's? Whodathunkit?

 

[fotoflojoe]

We registered for Chicago Cutlery when we got married two years ago. My wife was going to put Henkels or Wustof on the registry until she came to the reality that no one would drop the coin for the expensive knifes and she didn't want to pay for them either. Everything seems to be fine with them after two years and I've only managed to cut myself once.

Check your local Linens N Things stores. They are in bankruptcy so stores are closing. The one down the street from me had everything on sale for 10-20% off starting last week. Discounts are only going to get deeper as they want to clear everything out.

We registered for Henkels, one of the cheaper sets though. Didn't realize all the knives in the set have serrated edges - can't sharpen them.

I'll have to check out Linens 'n Things, or as I call it: Sheets 'n Sh!t

 

[csquared]

As per my first post in this thread JA Henckels, NOT JA Henckels INTERNATIONAL.

International seems to be globalization marketing speak for "Made in China."

 

[billymade]

Check out this video : "Making a Henckels Knife"
http://usa.jahenckels.com/index.php?simple_view=97

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._A._Henckels

a similar video : "Production and use of forged WUESTHOF knives"
http://www.wusthof.com/en/video.asp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wusthof