Kitchen Light Flicker Dimming Problem

[porschedude996TT]

I think I figured out an old problem that I have/had where the overhead fluorescent lighting flickered when the refrigerator kicks on. I recently had a flood in the house and have all the appliances out of the house and found a receptacle that I hadn't changed out when I first moved in 16 years ago. After we moved in my wife wanted to change all the switches and receptacles from ivory to white. The person that did the electrical work used the stabbed connections rather than the screw connections. When I changed out one of the switches I also found a wire nut that had turned reddish-brown because of some localized heating in the junction. Not Good, so I also went thru the whole house re-terminating the pigtail wires in the boxes. I went the little extra distance and twisted the wires before I installed the wire nuts and tightened the **** out of them.

So back to the refrigerator, I was changing the receptacle hot because the lighting is also on the circuit and didn't want to get a flashlight out it the shop. Well when i was moving the wires around the light went out and I spotted an arc in the existing wire nut. At that point I cut the breaker and got the flashlight and pulled the wiring out of the box. This is when I find that the pigtail joining the receptacle and the remaining down stream receptacles was 14 gage, not the 12 gage that was fed to that point. So with the poor junction, small wires, it is wonder why the lights dimmed and flickered when the refrigerator kicked on. This house has been 16 years of fixing poor workmanship. The previous owner was the owner/builder and acted as his own General Contractor and must have attracted a bad case of cheap sub-contractors. I could write a book on this guys **** work ethics. His last name was Gott and my wife and I often say, "We were Gott again"

I know there are a lot of good contractors out there and the small percentage bad contractors give the lot a bad name.

No questions, just venting...

 

[MrMark]

You probably know this but that refrigerator should be on its own circuit. The outlets too in the kitchen. It sounds like you have a totally screwed up electrical system.

You also mentioned the stab in connections that someone flat rated you with. Those stab ins should never be used IMO and they are only for 14 awg solid if someone uses them when doing a flat rate job. I don't think 12 could even be jammed in. Good that you got rid of them.

So if you had an electrician going around using stab ins I am assuming you have 14 gauge wire running everywhere. Not good. Especially not good when you have a refrigerator, kitchen lighting and outlets all plugged in on one circuit. I don't allow 14 gauge wire in my house (although electricians did sneak it in when I wasn't looking and I found some years later on circuits with 20 amp breakers!) because basically there's no reason for it other than to save pennies at the expense of future flexibility. People are always going to want to tap in to the 14 gauge later.

I don't trust the back wire connections either UNLESS one is using stranded wire and then they are a must as it is impossible (and not allowed by the manufacurer on a plug I recently read) to wrap stranded wire around a screw. The back wire are way better than the back stab you referred to, but I had a back wired solid pull out on me once so I stick with the screw terminals for solid wire even on the higher quality back wire capable outlets.

 

[jkeyser14]

I don't trust the back wire connections either UNLESS one is using stranded wire and then they are a must as it is impossible (and not allowed by the manufacurer on a plug I recently read) to wrap stranded wire around a screw.

Right, for stranded wire you should either use outlets with clamping plates or use crimp on spade connectors.

 

[Norcal]

Right, for stranded wire you should either use outlets with clamping plates or use crimp on spade connectors.

If you use crimp connectors ,they are not listed to use for that purpose, use the correct device or there is a method to wrap stranded wire around screws that am not fond of but is permitted also.

 

[porschedude996TT]

You probably know this but that refrigerator should be on its own circuit. The outlets too in the kitchen. It sounds like you have a totally screwed up electrical system.

You also mentioned the stab in connections that someone flat rated you with. Those stab ins should never be used IMO and they are only for 14 awg solid if someone uses them when doing a flat rate job. I don't think 12 could even be jammed in. Good that you got rid of them.

So if you had an electrician going around using stab ins I am assuming you have 14 gauge wire running everywhere. Not good. Especially not good when you have a refrigerator, kitchen lighting and outlets all plugged in on one circuit. I don't allow 14 gauge wire in my house (although electricians did sneak it in when I wasn't looking and I found some years later on circuits with 20 amp breakers!) because basically there's no reason for it other than to save pennies at the expense of future flexibility. People are always going to want to tap in to the 14 gauge later.

I don't trust the back wire connections either UNLESS one is using stranded wire and then they are a must as it is impossible (and not allowed by the manufacurer on a plug I recently read) to wrap stranded wire around a screw. The back wire are way better than the back stab you referred to, but I had a back wired solid pull out on me once so I stick with the screw terminals for solid wire even on the higher quality back wire capable outlets.

The house is an older house and I think I'm OK? I have a dedicated Dishwasher and a dedicated Garbage Disposal, but the stove receptacle, lighting, and refrigerator are all on one breaker. There are two other 20 amp receptacle circuits on there own separate breakers. I guess when I update the kitchen next year I am going to put in a dedicated circuit to the fridge and stove. It will be easy since the walls are going to be opened up.

I'm not sure who did this original electrical work. I'd like to witch slap him/her whatever did it...

The rest of the house has been sorted out and all the other receptacles have been replaced and wired to the screw terminals. I think this was or is the last one.

I had a problem at my mother's house years ago with the back stab wiring. Voltage dropped to near zero with a very small load on it. One of those back stabbed junctions was loose and must have heated up an took the temper out of the brass/copper leaf spring.

Right, for stranded wire you should either use outlets with clamping plates or use crimp on spade connectors.

No stranded here. I would only use stranded when there was some motion or vibration involved. Like a liquid flex conduit to a fixed in place power tool like a lathe.

Thanks, Guys

 

[oleguy]

make sure all recp outlets for kitchen counter tops need to be gfci procted.island outlets if you have an island.if all are already gfci you are good!!!no gfi to fridge.just a reminder.

 

[porschedude996TT]

You are so right, but isn't this a newer requirement? I mean it makes sense to do it on my own at any point. Help me dissect the errors made or if there were errors made when my house was built. When did the NEC start making it a requirement to have GFCI's in the kitchen?

 

[oleguy]

it used to be within 6 feet of water.now every outlet on kitchen counters and islands needs gfci.8-10 years ago.

 

[MrMark]

I am thinking way longer than that. I had to have them in 96, I know that.

 

[oleguy]

yea,it actually started in 96.

 

[Kevin54]

You are so right, but isn't this a newer requirement? I mean it makes sense to do it on my own at any point. Help me dissect the errors made or if there were errors made when my house was built. When did the NEC start making it a requirement to have GFCI's in the kitchen?

You have to have a GFCI any where that water is present. Garage, kitchen, bathroom. A kitchen is a must. For one good example would be a garbage disposal. Water, a switch, bare skin, and electricity.
As far as 14g wire, you should be fine with that, but as far as the fridge on the same circuit, you really want your appliances on dedicated circuits. Most newer homes are ran with 14g instead of 12g. Myself....I've always been more fond of 12g. A little more work wrapping the wires around the screw but well worth the protection. A lot of electricians to get a job completed and when wiring a whole house, it's pretty quick to run 14g, backstab the connection, and install.

 

[oleguy]

all kit ckts are 20 amp.12-2-g.the only appliance allowed on 14-2 is fridge.

 

[Jack Davenport]

all kit ckts are 20 amp.12-2-g.the only appliance allowed on 14-2 is fridge.

Thats not entirely true. Any dedicated circuit for an appliance is allowed to be on a 15 ampere circuit provided that the rating of the individual branch circuit is not less then the marked rating of the appliances nameplate.
A perfect example would be a garbage disposal, a trash compactor, a small wine cooler& the refridgerator. GFCI protection is not required for appliances such as disposals, and such.

Also stranded wire is not allowed to used in pressure type connections such as thos efound on the back of receptacles. If you do use a crimp on type of wire connector on stranded wire it must be rated for the voltage (120 volts) and the wire type ( stranded). The ones for automotive use are rated for 12 volt only.

 

[oleguy]

all kit ckts refer to counter top,island,outlets so it is entirely true.per code fridgr can be on a 15 or 20 amp ckt.

 

[porschedude996TT]

Well I figured out the flicker, I know it has been a long time, but I forgot to update. I changed out the T-12 lighting fixtures with T-8 in the kitchen that were flickering. They would also shut off (Overtemp) if they were on for a long time. These are leftovers from my shop build. Three each six tube T-8 fixtures is way overkill so I have taken out all but 2 tubes per fixture. The old fixtures were the cheap shop light that sold for $9.99 back in 1986 and had the little cube ballasts.