Kitchen rewire project

[BetterDays]

We just bought a new oven (delivered the evening before Thanksgiving) and an over the range microwave, as we want to remove the "1900's" exhaust fan from it. We will need to install a new cabinet to accommodate the microwave.

As we were looking for the breaker for the hood, we discovered something interesting.
The breaker we would need to utilize already has three outlets, the dishwasher, garbage disposal, and two lights (overhead kitchen with fan and the sink light) on it. I am fairly certain the microwave, dishwasher, and garbage disposal should not share a breaker. Since we know we will need a new breaker run into the kitchen, we decided to the check what else was available / paired together

The fridge is on a separate breaker (thankfully).

The entire front room (family room?) and the shared wall in the kitchen are on the same breaker. This single breaker has the current microwave, Ninja coffee pot, Ninja Blender, and an overhead light in the dining area on it. (explains the dimming of the overhead light; not sure if wiring, dimmable lighting fixture/dimmable LED, or just "normal")

The next breaker has the rest of the dining area outlets, kitchen peninsula pendant lights, and three outlets in the kitchen backsplash.

We are planning to reach out to the electrician to quote rewiring the kitchen for the new microwave and feedback on how else to make changes for better power distribution.

Beyond separating the power hungry appliances, is there anything else we should think about based on your experiences?

Thanks in advance!

 

[larry4406]

In our new houses, the kitchen has:

• Dedicated 120V15A dishwasher circuit. We install a GFCI outlet in the kitchen sink base and use a cord on the dishwasher
• Dedicated 120V15A disposal circuit. We install a GFCI outlet in the kitchen sink base and use a cord on the disposal. This outlet is normally switched by a wall switch proximate to the sink, but if an air switch is selected, we delete the wall switch leaving the outlet hot all the time.
• Two dedicated 120V20A small appliance circuits. These are GFCI protected and are the outlets on the backsplash and cabinet peninsula
• Dedicated refrigerator circuit per manufacturer. Most of our fridges are 120V15A
• Dedicated microwave circuit per manufacturer. Most of them are 120V15A but some are 240V20A direct wire.
• 240V30A wall oven circuit. Our wall ovens are direct wire.
• Range outlet. This will vary by manufacturer on circuit size and location.
• Range hood circuit. This will vary by manufacture on circuit size. Most of our homes get a gas cooktop with hood above. When this happens, we install a dedicated 120V15A outlet in the cooktop base cabinet that also provides power to the hood. The GFCI provides the local disconnect function for the often direct wire range hood.

 

[Denwood]

In our new houses, the kitchen has:

• Dedicated 120V15A dishwasher circuit. We install a GFCI outlet in the kitchen sink base and use a cord on the dishwasher
• Dedicated 120V15A disposal circuit. We install a GFCI outlet in the kitchen sink base and use a cord on the disposal. This outlet is normally switched by a wall switch proximate to the sink, but if an air switch is selected, we delete the wall switch leaving the outlet hot all the time.
• Two dedicated 120V20A small appliance circuits. These are GFCI protected and are the outlets on the backsplash and cabinet peninsula
• Dedicated refrigerator circuit per manufacturer. Most of our fridges are 120V15A
• Dedicated microwave circuit per manufacturer. Most of them are 120V15A but some are 240V20A direct wire.
• 240V30A wall oven circuit. Our wall ovens are direct wire.
• Range outlet. This will vary by manufacturer on circuit size and location.
• Range hood circuit. This will vary by manufacture on circuit size. Most of our homes get a gas cooktop with hood above. When this happens, we install a dedicated 120V15A outlet in the cooktop base cabinet that also provides power to the hood. The GFCI provides the local disconnect function for the often direct wire range hood.

Did this exactly, with added outlets above the upper cabinets for lighting. Pre-reno I had to terminate some old knob and tube in the ceiling which would give you an idea of the age of the structure

With the ceiling open for new lighting, I also ran speaker wire between the upper cabinets on opposing sides of the kitchen and did custom (hidden) speaker cabinets up there with a Bluetooth amp. This is used daily in the kitchen!

The kitchen will likely be the most electrically “demanding” room in your home if done to code.

 

[u2slow]

At the onset of modifying the kitchen, we wanted at OTR microwave. I'm glad we didn't impulse-buy that item early on. Common issues:
- cost
- wall strength/backing considerations
- they often don't draw/vent very well
- poor height for a short person; or sightline obstacle for a tall person
- special or nuisance lighting to maintain (not basic lamps)

Also in our case, was much easier to run a fresh circuit to a microwave shelf on the adjacent wall. The standalone microwave and separate range hood were only $200 total.


Wall ovens vary widely in their power and circuit requirements. Check carefully.

 

[Denwood]

At the onset of modifying the kitchen, we wanted at OTR microwave. I'm glad we didn't impulse-buy that item early on. Common issues:
- cost
- wall strength/backing considerations
- they often don't draw/vent very well
- poor height for a short person; or sightline obstacle for a tall person
- special or nuisance lighting to maintain (not basic lamps)

Also in our case, was much easier to run a fresh circuit to a microwave shelf on the adjacent wall. The standalone microwave and separate range hood were only $200 total.


Wall ovens vary widely in their power and circuit requirements. Check carefully.

The other gotcha if you decide to go to a wall oven and cooktop is that you go from one 240V circuit for the range/oven combo to two 240V circuits for the range and cooktop. In our case we we met from a single 40A@240V circuit to two 240v circuits: 30A@240 and a 20A@240V. Lots to think about if you’re wiring a kitchen.

 

[theoldwizard1]

We are planning to reach out to the electrician to quote rewiring the kitchen for the new microwave and feedback on how else to make changes for better power distribution.

Not a sparky and I have NOT memorized the NEC code book.

15 years ago, I was in the same position on my daughters house built in 1946. Kitchen wiring was "shared" with other rooms. Whole house was "2 wire" (no ground). Did a complete kitchen remodel. The only thing I hired out was a 3 way switch for the center room light and a light (with switch) above the sink.

I did make sure that the left and right counter top receptacles were on unique 20A circuits with GFCIs when I ran new wire. I don't know what code is, but I put pig tails on the garbage disposer and the dishwasher and ran them to a duplex receptacle under the sink (yes, one was switched). The stove (gas), hood and microwave were on another. I'm think refrigerator had always shared power with the dining room. This added 4 circuits which was perfect because I swapped in 4 tandem breakers.

As stated, I don' know what code is, but on a kitchen remodel, "best practice" will cost you a lot of money !

 

[Norcal]

Kitchens also require AFCI's, in addition to GFCi's, depending on the code edition the range requires a GFCI protected circuit, and a receptacle for a gas range is permitted on a small appliance branch circuit. According to , the Mike Holt website, Ohio, is on the 2023 NEC which is the latest edition.

 

[u2slow]

Wearing my DIY-hat (no permits) I roughly follow the original code vintage of the home, or latest documented major renovation.

Wearing my contractor-hat is a different story.

 

[BetterDays]

Thanks for the feedback!

The new stove is already in place and in use... and I hate glass top stoves, but it was the best option for us right now.

Here is a pic from the listing in 2016 to see the range hood in question. Ol' Betsy will be fun to remove and see what other adventures we have.
With the new set-up, we will need to purchase/build a cabinet to attach the OTR Microwave.
The new microwave will do well in the place since it clears up a small corner of counter space next to the fridge.

After some discussions and brainstorming, one solution is a dedicated breaker to the microwave only.
This removes the Microwave from the dishwasher/garbage disposal (which has not had an issue) and away from coffee maker/front room (which we know we cannot microwave and make coffee at the same time)

There is a "want" for a kitchen reno in the future and it would be easiest to upgrade then when everything is out.
At that point, locations of appliances may change, so we are bridging the gap until then.

 

[BetterDays]

Cabinet in and microwave in
Powered up.
Small wall repair (hidden by microwave) where we had to remove a row of the backsplash. Cabinet is slightly different color, more noticeable in photos than nekkid eye

 

[larry4406]

Perhaps wipe the cabinet with "Old English" to darken it. Try in an inconspicuous location first. Might not take depending on how the cabinet finish was sealed.

I'm sure the vented microwave will be a nice addition.

 

[BetterDays]

@larry4406 I read Old English and thought of the malt liquor ; quickly realized you meant the wood oil and I think I may have some, so I will give that a shot.

The vent will be nice. In the future, it will be an outside vent. For now, just back into the house but hopefully better than the 1979 model that was there.

 

[mm08822]

@larry4406 I read Old English and thought of the malt liquor ; quickly realized you meant the wood oil and I think I may have some, so I will give that a shot.

The vent will be nice. In the future, it will be an outside vent. For now, just back into the house but hopefully better than the 1979 model that was there.

I haven't had old English 800 since the 70's! Probably no better today

 

[larry4406]

@larry4406 I read Old English and thought of the malt liquor ; quickly realized you meant the wood oil and I think I may have some, so I will give that a shot.

The vent will be nice. In the future, it will be an outside vent. For now, just back into the house but hopefully better than the 1979 model that was there.

I haven't had old English 800 since the 70's! Probably no better today

Wow!

Not sure I remember Old English malt liquor….

 

[mm08822]

Wow!

Not sure I remember Old English malt liquor….

It was cheap......fit the High School budget. (Terrible cold, warm or hot!)

 

[larry4406]

I was cheap......fit the High School budget.

Yes I remember now!

It was right next to the Mickey's Big Mouth's and Boone's Farm Country Kwencher!

 

[mm08822]

I don't know Mickey's, but I vaguely remember a couple of incidents with Boone's farm.