Knife Woes

[Stuey]

Okay, so I saw a spiffy looking knife online and called the wife in to see it. To my surprise, she gave the okay for me to buy it as part of my holiday gift. Woo!

So... I do a little searching and find that it is made in Taiwan.

Spyderco "S"

I know that Spyderco makes a few knives in the US, such as the Native, but the S really caught my eye with its design. What would you do? Imported knife from a reputable brand b/c of how it looks, or not? Also, I might purchase the Native regardless as to whether I buy the S or not.

 

[Bolster]

Hoo boy, I'm a Spyderholic, so I will try to keep this short. In fact, I'll outline it.

1) Spyder is thought to do a pretty good job of enforcing quality control of their knives wherever made (USA, Japan, Italy, one was Swiss, Taiwan, and now even China).

2) That said, most Spyderholics prefer USA or Japan (Seki City) knives. And that is because (1) fit and finish are great; and (2) US knives use S30V and Seiki knives use VG-10 or ZDP-189. All top "super" steels.

3) The Tenacious, made in China, is their first and only (very controversial and very inexpensive) Chinese-made Spyder. Opinions are fiercely divided about the Chinacious, as I call it. The steel it contains is OK, nothing to write home about. Spyderco's president, Sal Glesser, basically said he had to compete with all the other brands going to China, or see his company go under. So some people see the Chinacious as supporting the company so it can continue making high quality Am, Jap, and Euro knives.

4) Make your decision about what knife to buy, based on the design fitting your needs, and the steel it contains. The "S" uses 440C, which was considered a good steel 20-30 years ago. Still is good, but things have gotten so much better in the past decade. I've sold all my 440C knives because better options exist. I'd consider 440C a minimum acceptable standard.

5) Do you really want to be cleaning goo out of the blade? Decaying stuff on the blade will stink. The knives in the same ballpark as that S in size and function, that get big raves, are the Dragonfly, and the Caly III. They can be had with high end steel, and in the case of the Caly III, even with ZDP-189, an amazing super-steel.

6) Merkava is joking. You don't want a Gerber. I will get flamed for what I'm saying next, but it's true: Gerber uses low-end 440 on a lot of their knives (don't know what steel's in the Gator so maybe I am speaking out of school). I owned several Gerbers. Nice to look at...but...very bendy edges.

7) If you decide to go for the Native (highly rated due to its top quality steel, myself I don't like hollow grind), a new model is coming out that has everyone hot and bothered--it has a flat ground blade (=good!). I am waiting impatiently for the new Native 4s myself. Interestingly the photo shows a VG-10 blade, meaning this would be a Seki knife. Traditionally the Native has always been a US made knife. So maybe the prototype you see in the photo was made in Seki? Don't know.

 

[bchee]

BUY IT man that thing looks badass. Plus the blade is made of 440C steel. Don't know what that means, but it's probably a good kind of steel.

The clip looks really weak though

 

[Merkava_4]

6) Merkava is joking. You don't want a Gerber. I will get flamed for what I'm saying next, but it's true: Gerber uses low-end steel on a lot of their knives (don't know what steel's in the Gator so maybe I am speaking out of school). I own several Gerbers. Very bendy edges.

The one I have is the made in Oregon USA version, has the quality gone down hill since moving production to China?

 

[MAD]

Are those holes for grating cheese?

 

[Uncle Buck]

6) Merkava is joking. You don't want a Gerber. I will get flamed for what I'm saying next, but it's true: Gerber uses low-end steel on a lot of their knives (don't know what steel's in the Gator so maybe I am speaking out of school). I own several Gerbers. Very bendy edges.

Heck, I thought Gerber, Buck, Camillus (now gone) Shrade, and Case (what i carry) were all good brands. Someone better tell me at least one name in that list is worth having!

 

[Merkava_4]

Heck, I thought Gerber, Buck, Camillus (now gone) Shrade, and Case (what i carry) were all good brands. Someone better tell me at least one name in that list is worth having!

I can shave the hair off my arms with my Gerber, but it pre-dates the China move.

 

[Uncle Buck]

I can shave the hair off my arms with my Gerber, but it pre-dates the China move.

What China move? Never mind..................They need to just keep the damned things over there and go cut bamboo shoots or something like that with them!

 

[chad s]

If an automatic knife is legal in your state, look into a Protech. They are outstanding. The 154cm stainless steel blade is very high grade. But they are priced at a premium. I have a J4 Runt that I carry every day, and use all of the time on the job. I also have a Godson, which is less practical, but extremely sharp!

www.protechknives.com

Get one of these, and you will NOT be disappointed:
http://protechknives.com/knives/switchblades/runt-4-knives.asp

check out this little custom one:

 

[bushhawg73]

I have a Spiderco that is about 10 years old. I carry it every day at work and it has never let me down. It is made in Japan. I have jimmed the door lock to get into places and cut lots of seatbelts in vehicle crashes. I do not know about the china version but the one I have has been a great knife.

 

[Merkava_4]

What China move? Never mind..................They need to just keep the damned things over there and go cut bamboo shoots or something like that with them!

LOL!!!

 

[Crawlin]

I really like my benchmade, not sure where they are made though

 

[plinker]

Schrade went out business in '04 due to cheap imports and got bought by Taylor brands and is now an import (I.E. china / Taiwan).

Some Buck knives at walmart are imports too. but most of there line is still USA.

 

[chad s]

I really like my benchmade, not sure where they are made though

Benchmade is USA made, excellent quality. They may have some asian made ones, but the top end auto's are USA.

 

[Bolster]

Heck, I thought Gerber, Buck, Camillus (now gone) Shrade, and Case (what i carry) were all good brands. Someone better tell me at least one name in that list is worth having!

Those are good brands. As it pertains to stainless steel, those manufacturers tend to use conventional, traditional stainless steels, which worked well enough for many years. Several well-known brands stick with 440 or similar steels because it can be stamped (it is soft). Thing is, there has been a revolution in cutlery (stainless) steel starting mid 1990s and we are reaping the benefits of things like 'powder metallurgy' in today's new steels.

Knives that are sold to collectors are prone to have soft 440 steels in them, because 440 really does resist rust well. At least 440A does. (440C not so much.) The mfgr's know that 'collector' knives will probably not get sharpened and used, and besides, the collector wants a really really shiny blade that will stay that way. So load it up with chromium, who cares how the edge holds up. And you can stamp the blades so they're inexpensive to make.

A Case or Schrade or Camillus with rustable carbon steel is a wonderful knife. Needs frequent sharpening compared to today's super-steels, but they're great, take a keen edge, and I'd be proud to have 'em in my pocket. I'm prone to carry old-school Queen knives, although Queen has updated many of their knives to D-2 steel which is amazingly good stuff.

 

[Stanger]

I carried an inexpensive Buck everyday, but I seemed to have lost it. It was USA made. Right now I'm carrying a Boker, also USA made. I haven't really paid much attention to them other than sharpening when needed. They both get the job done, but the Buck was quite a bit lighter. I need to find it.

 

[a390st]

I have several of the Japan made Spyderco knives, but I am done with them now with the whole China thing. I have a lot of respect for the Japanese cutlery market. The China thing really was a case of cheaping out without regard for the desires of the consumer. Well, that's my opinion, at least.

 

[mkdive]

I carry a masters of defense auto knife, or a covert applegate folding Gerber. Both are great blades.

 

[Stuey]

Bolster - I really appreciate your post, and will refer to it in the future - it is very informative, very detailed, and very helpful!

Merkava - I have a few Gerber knives. The ones I usually have readily available are an older Paraframe I, and a newer Paraframe II. The Paraframe I is great, but I chipped the blade and never got around to sharpening it. The Paraframe II is complete garbage. I complained to Gerber about how difficult it was to open the knife even with two hands, and they told me to adjust the screw. I went out and bought the Torx driver I needed and it didn't help. I tried a few things and concluded that the liner lock was just too strong - suggesting a design fault or severe manufacturing errors. I have other Gerber products and their quality is lacking. Ironically, the only Gerber product I still appreciate is my Paraframe I that I bought at Walmart with a shortcut keychain for $13.

Oh goodness, I opened a can of worms with this thread, didn't I!

I think I'll follow Bolster's advice and wait a bit to check out the new Native that's coming out.

Automatic knives are definitely not legal here.

I typically carry a Skeletool or Wave with me. I wasn't looking for a new knife, but I saw the Spyderco with the spider motif and it drew me almost as strongly as Leatherman did with their Skeletools.

The "S" is still so tempting, but I must resist!

 

[Danglerb]

I have a Spyderco PIG, but I never take it out of the house.

Gerber LST used to always be in my pocket, now I have a Gerber Shortcut.

Talking to a guy a couple weeks ago, pulled over for a routine ticket in his car and the cop found a small, ala less than 3 1/2" blade knife in the door pouch, but it was deemed "double edged" and he was charged with a felony, cuffed and taken to jail.

 

[speed bump]

At the moment I have on me a 10 or so year old Made in USA old timer 3 blade with carbon steel blades. A Magnum by Boker Chinese or Taiwanese knife its one of the rainbow series ones with a 440 stainless blade. Also I carry my Leatherman wave.

I have managed to lose my nice buck 2 blade with carbon steel blades and a Boker 3 blade with Carbon steel blades.

The Magnum seems like a nice knife but I am a lefty so I am contemplating giving it to my little sister who lost the Kershaw spring assisted knife I got here last year (nothing scarier than a 14 year old girl walking up to you and having 3.5" blade pop out in you face) since it isn't spring assisted and opens much more easily with the right hand than the left. Honestly I should of played with it more but for $18 and the fact that it had a cool iridated Ti finish sold it for me.

I keep thinking of picking up a US made Kershaw or CKRT spring assisted opening knife for a workhorse because pulling the Old Timer out just tends to be a pain sometimes. Buck also makes a nice one but my friend had the locking mechanism wear out on his.

Also can anyone tell me a good lefty knife?

 

[Stuey]

Bolster,

The Native 4 on Spyderco's website has carbon fiber scales and has a list of $260! I'll wait for the polymer version!

 

[<>Severed<>]

In Idaho we can have auto knifes so I have four benchmades http://www.benchmade.com/products/product_detail.aspx?model=9100

and I carry this cheap smith one at work http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=SW50BTSAUTO

 

[Adam McLaughlin]

Talking to a guy a couple weeks ago, pulled over for a routine ticket in his car and the cop found a small, ala less than 3 1/2" blade knife in the door pouch, but it was deemed "double edged" and he was charged with a felony, cuffed and taken to jail.

Something else happened in this altercation, the cop does not have much reason to look into door pockets of cars to peek for weapons. Where is the PC for that? I think that the driver of the car would have curtiledge in this area and he would have to either volunteer that he has a weapon, OR he would have done something to incite a reason to search.

( I used to T.A. for the Rights of the Accused class at the local University )

Adam

 

[nissan_crawler]

I have a Spyderco PIG, but I never take it out of the house.

Gerber LST used to always be in my pocket, now I have a Gerber Shortcut.

Talking to a guy a couple weeks ago, pulled over for a routine ticket in his car and the cop found a small, ala less than 3 1/2" blade knife in the door pouch, but it was deemed "double edged" and he was charged with a felony, cuffed and taken to jail.

What does "double-edged" have to do with it? Is that some weird Cali law?

At the moment I have on me a 10 or so year old Made in USA old timer 3 blade with carbon steel blades. A Magnum by Boker Chinese or Taiwanese knife its one of the rainbow series ones with a 440 stainless blade. Also I carry my Leatherman wave.

I have managed to lose my nice buck 2 blade with carbon steel blades and a Boker 3 blade with Carbon steel blades.

The Magnum seems like a nice knife but I am a lefty so I am contemplating giving it to my little sister who lost the Kershaw spring assisted knife I got here last year (nothing scarier than a 14 year old girl walking up to you and having 3.5" blade pop out in you face) since it isn't spring assisted and opens much more easily with the right hand than the left. Honestly I should of played with it more but for $18 and the fact that it had a cool iridated Ti finish sold it for me.

I keep thinking of picking up a US made Kershaw or CKRT spring assisted opening knife for a workhorse because pulling the Old Timer out just tends to be a pain sometimes. Buck also makes a nice one but my friend had the locking mechanism wear out on his.

Also can anyone tell me a good lefty knife?

I have a Kershaw Ken Onion (my daily knife):

CRKT M16-14LE

Beretta (like the black handled one, but my blade is all stainless)

As for lefty, I have no clue, but the Kershaw is a great size, and quite thin for daily carrying. It keeps a nice edge, too.

 

[Stuey]

What does "double-edged" have to do with it? Is that some weird Cali law?

I assume double-edged knives could be considered daggers, which are illegal in many areas that have tight weapon regulations.

 

[Bolster]

Bolster,

The Native 4 on Spyderco's website has carbon fiber scales and has a list of $260! I'll wait for the polymer version!

It'll be pricey due to the CF scales, but street value nowhere near $260. And as you guessed, Spyderco often introduces an upscale version, followed by a more reasonable one with normal handles.

 

[csquared]

<a href="http://www.benchmade.com/index.asp"><img src=http://www.benchmade.com/images/logo.gif></a>

As far as I know, they are all made in Oregon City (that's in Oregon, folks).

I found this:
"United We Stand. Made in USA"
Made in the USA means exactly that when it comes to Benchmade. Located at 300 Beavercreek Road in Oregon City, Oregon USA, Benchmade Knife Company has been manufacturing knives at this modern facility since March of 1996. Corporate offices, Sales & Marketing, Customer Services and manufacturing are all under one roof working hard everyday to continue providing you with the best possible products and services. The modern design of this facility allows for future expansion as Benchmade continues to grow and evolve in the specialty cutlery markets.

Find a Dealer, or Buy Direct:
Benchmade Knife Company (benchmade.com)
8:30am to 5:00pm pacific time.
300 Beavercreek Road
Oregon City, Oregon 97045 USA
Phone: (503) 655-6004
Toll Free: (800) 800-7427
Fax: (503) 655-6223
E-mail: [email protected]

 

[Bolster]

Sadly (but like virtually all other USA knife makers) some Benchmade are made in China.

"I am familiar with some of Benchmade's other Red Box material and found them on par with other Taiwanese made products I own. I assumed that this Vex was also a Taiwan made knife as the likes of the Ambush, the Rant, and the Monochrome are Taiwanese made.......first surprise.....this Vex is marked CHINA!" See discussion.

"The [Benchmade Vex] blade is just under 1/8-inch thick and made from a Chinese steel specified as 8Cr14MoV. According to the Benchmade web site, this steel is similar to AUS-8..." See discussion.

And on Benchmade's own website they talk about their various Chinese steels.

Although Chinese steels don't impress me, I'm not dissing Benchmade, very good reputation. Maybe even their Chinese knives are high quality, I don't know. I do wish that Benchmade would respect the Spyderco patent on the round hole opener, but Spyderco's president Sal Glesser is not a sue-happy guy and won't pursue it in court. Good for him.

 

[speed bump]

What does "double-edged" have to do with it? Is that some weird Cali law?



I have a Kershaw Ken Onion (my daily knife):

CRKT M16-14LE

Beretta (like the black handled one, but my blade is all stainless)

As for lefty, I have no clue, but the Kershaw is a great size, and quite thin for daily carrying. It keeps a nice edge, too.

I know the Kershaw is a nice knife, I keep looking at the iridated Ti finished one but I haven't felt like the spending the $75 yet on a knife that I don't really need ATM. I looked at the CKRT knife(I think it was that one or one like it) and passed becuase all the ones they had didn't always open correctly. I might have to see about the Beretta though.

 

[krusty the clown]

i have about 50 or so knives. here's may favorite............

it's a courtney custom. it was from eldon courtney's personal collection. nissan_crawler should know of mr. courtney since he was also from wichita!

 

[Danglerb]

Something else happened in this altercation, the cop does not have much reason to look into door pockets of cars to peek for weapons. Where is the PC for that? I think that the driver of the car would have curtiledge in this area and he would have to either volunteer that he has a weapon, OR he would have done something to incite a reason to search.

( I used to T.A. for the Rights of the Accused class at the local University )

Adam

Technical term is failure to shut up.

As I understand it, it was a routine stop for speeding, and at some point the "any weapons or guns in the vehicle?" question came up and he said, "just my knife" or some such, and the cop took one look and cuffed him.

 

[chad s]

I have a ken onion 1660 kershaw too. its blade does not hold up like a 154cm blade does. if you can find a non-auto blade with a 154cm stainless blade, you will be amazed how long it holds an edge, but its found on higher end knives mostly.

 

[strizzy]

Heres my practical view on that knife, that would be a pain to clean anything that got into the milled out part of the knife. Never see that in my pocket.

At the moment I have a large Gerber, second one and love it, though I am looking for a 'nice' knife.

 

[81Seca]

If you like the design, I wouldn't be concerned about the quality. I have a bunch of Spydercos, including the imported Byrd Wings, Byrd Cara Cara, and Spyderco branded Tenacious. Ans as much as I dig my American made Spydercos, the quality of the imports is quite good, and the value is hard to beat. One of my EDC knives is a China made Boker Hyper, and it is one of the most recommended EDC knives on several knife BB's. You can find complete **** knives made in China, but you can also find some great values if you know what to buy.

 

[daveblank]

Bolster,

The Native 4 on Spyderco's website has carbon fiber scales and has a list of $260! I'll wait for the polymer version!

Other than carbon fiber, what is the difference in the Native 3 & Native 4?

http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=61

 

[Bolster]

Other than carbon fiber, what is the difference in the Native 3 & Native 4?

Different blade shape and grind (notice it is flat ground not hollow ground), different steel (looks like the new one is using VG-10), different handles (the first Native 4 will be carbon fiber, inevitably FRN or G-10 handles will follow, they almost always do). Clip now has 4 options for placement. Skeletonized internal liners (that adds cost but also strength.) Looks like lockup may be the same (back lock).

The old Native used to be "the Walmart knife." Doesn't look like the new one is aimed at Walmart anymore, it's very upscale.

 

[Stuey]

*bump*

Didn't buy that Spyderco, and am now considering a Kershaw Onion. Possibly either the Scallion or Chive. I also want the E.T. but the design is a bit daunting, not to mention the price is higher.

 

[bmwguru]

I own several knives from a few manufacturers listed in earlier posts. Such as Buck, Gerber, Spyderco, Kershaw, Benchmade, Emerson and Microtech. They are all nice but the Microtech knives are the best of the best IMHO. They are not cheap, but you will get what you pay for. Completely US made using only US manufactured parts, materials and labor. Have a look. I suggest skipping the GI Joe intro...http://www.microtechknives.com/

 

[bchee]

*bump*

Didn't buy that Spyderco, and am now considering a Kershaw Onion. Possibly either the Scallion or Chive. I also want the E.T. but the design is a bit daunting, not to mention the price is higher.

ha ha thought you were joking about the names, but they are real.

I would stick with the spiderweb theme knife