Knipex 71 12 200 Bolt cutter question

[Titanium Steel]

I am thinking of buying a Knipex model number 71 12 200 Comfort Grip High Leverage Cobolt Cutters with a spring. I've done some research and Knipex seems like the best company for bolt cutters that are 8 inches or mini.

However, I have been told by several people (one being a plumber, the other being a electrician) stating that some of their products are a bit over priced and their pliers don't compare to Channelock brand, which I could see, given that I own several pairs of Channelock pliers.

However I've been told that these can cut expanded metal, but I wonder if these can cut regular metal as well. I was told by a employee at Sears, so I am not sure if he was trying to make commission or telling the truth.

So if anyone has bought these, I'd like your opinion and if you had even the slightest issue, I'd like to know as well. These are made in Germany, so I know they are likely very well made, but I don't take chances when spending money with tools.

Thank you very much.

 

[shoturtle]

I have channel locks but I preferred the german designed pliers instead. The are slimmer, and you can apply more even force. And the channel lock needle nose do not compare to the german ones. I have wiha made in germany and switzerland. And I used them first. If I am being brute then I beat on the channel locks. Knipes, Wiha and NWS are all very close in build and performance. But being imports, they will be more then the channel locks. Also matco rebadge knipex for their pliers. The are very good ones.

But that side amoung US pliers, I like the channel locks over the kline and SO ones.

 

[vintagefan]

I am thinking of buying a Knipex model number 71 12 200 Comfort Grip High Leverage Cobolt Cutters with a spring. I've done some research and Knipex seems like the best company for bolt cutters that are 8 inches or mini.

However, I have been told by several people (one being a plumber, the other being a electrician) stating that some of their products are a bit over priced and their pliers don't compare to Channelock brand, which I could see, given that I own several pairs of Channelock pliers.

However I've been told that these can cut expanded metal, but I wonder if these can cut regular metal as well. I was told by a employee at Sears, so I am not sure if he was trying to make commission or telling the truth.

So if anyone has bought these, I'd like your opinion and if you had even the slightest issue, I'd like to know as well. These are made in Germany, so I know they are likely very well made, but I don't take chances when spending money with tools.

Thank you very much.

I'm VERY surprised that a Plumber would say Knipex are inferior... I really have to wonder if he's actually used them, or just looked at them on the shelf and poo-poo'd the price.

On pipe fittings, the Knipex plier wrench, and Cobra pump pliers, absolutely kick the **** out of just about anything else on the market.

The plier wrench grabs fittings like a vise grip, but without leaving marks, and you can "ratchet" it if you get good enough.

The Cobra pliers are slim, light, and strong, and easily change positions as well as locking place. The teeth are cut SHARP and accurately, and they're designed to grab tight without excessive marring.



IMO there are no finer tools for plumbing than the plier wrench and cobra plier.



As far as the mini bolt cutters go, they're the ONLY decent plier sized bolt cutter I know of. There's pretty much no competition. There are some slightly different alternatives like the NWS Fantastico diagonal cutters, but nothing exactly like the Knipex.



I have counted several thousand cuts of 1/8" stainless welding wire with mine, and you can't even see any wear on them.

 

[Titanium Steel]

Vintagefan, this all happened at my local Lowes and the guy just started talking, so it's hard to say. But then again, I spoke to a licensed contractor at Home Depot about this brand recently and he said Knipex creates decently built products. I've never ever used a Knipex brand, so it's hard for me to really have a true opinion.

Based on how this bolt cutter looks, I'd say that is fair to say. I've read virtually all positive reviews, but I just wanted to make sure. I am likely going to cut metal with these and while this wouldn't be industrial grade metal, it would still be metal after all.

Shoturtle: About the Channelock needlenose, now that I fully agree with you, as I actually own a 1000 volt rated insulated Wiha Needle nose plier and have actually used the Channelock needle nose.

However, my Wiha 32810 are without cutters (as that is what I wanted) but I have yet to really need to use them in rough situations yet.

I am glad to hear that Knipex 71 12 200 is actually a well built product and not just a nice looking product that looks great at a shop, but actually in use not so much.

EDIT: Knipex doesn't actually list these are bolt cutters on their website. Is it a issue on my end or is their a reason for that? Sometimes my computer can act a bit odd at times. This leaves me to ask, is there any item I should use this on to cut? Obviously not locks, i.e. master lock combination locks.

 

[shoturtle]

http://www.knipex.de/index.php?id=1216&L=0&page=group_detail&parentID=1367&groupID=1473

Here, they are heavy gauge metal cutters. Sorry it is the german site, so it is in german

 

[Titanium Steel]

Shotrutle, there is also a American version of that site as well, but as I looked, the site doesn't list what the 71 12 200 can't cut or shouldn't be used on.

Here is the link to the USA site. http://www.knipex.com/index.php?id=1216&L=1&page=group_detail&parentID=1367&groupID=1473

 

[vintagefan]

Vintagefan, this all happened at my local Lowes and the guy just started talking, so it's hard to say. But then again, I spoke to a licensed contractor at Home Depot about this brand recently and he said Knipex creates decently built products. I've never ever used a Knipex brand, so it's hard for me to really have a true opinion.

Based on how this bolt cutter looks, I'd say that is fair to say. I've read virtually all positive reviews, but I just wanted to make sure. I am likely going to cut metal with these and while this wouldn't be industrial grade metal, it would still be metal after all.

Shoturtle: About the Channelock needlenose, now that I fully agree with you, as I actually own a 1000 volt rated insulated Wiha Needle nose plier and have actually used the Channelock needle nose.

However, my Wiha 32810 are without cutters (as that is what I wanted) but I have yet to really need to use them in rough situations yet.

I am glad to hear that Knipex 71 12 200 is actually a well built product and not just a nice looking product that looks great at a shop, but actually in use not so much.

EDIT: Knipex doesn't actually list these are bolt cutters on their website. Is it a issue on my end or is their a reason for that? Sometimes my computer can act a bit odd at times. This leaves me to ask, is there any item I should use this on to cut? Obviously not locks, i.e. master lock combination locks.

They're on the site, here's the link:

http://www.knipex.com/index.php?id=1216&L=1&page=group_detail&parentID=1367&groupID=1473




Knipex products are pretty much top tier quality across the board. I don't think I've ever gotten a Knipex product that wasn't. I almost could say that "decent" would be an insult to the quality level they maintain.

There are many other good brands on the market, Channellock is definitely one of them.

Most of Knipex's cutters are rated for Piano wire, which is basically spring steel.

 

[shoturtle]

It might be your computer, the link you listed has it listed as cutting bolts nail and rivets unto 5.2mm in thickness. It is on the bottom in the description tab.

 

[Titanium Steel]

Shoturle: Here is a link to a PDF that was also on their website. http://www.knipex.com/modules/downloads_secure/getfile.php?file=L10001892&L=1&type=pdf

I might have misread the information, bold text sometimes is hard for me to read when in large amount.

Vintagefan, thank you for the link and some of the information. Based on what you are saying it's seems that Knipex is a great tool. So would it be a stretch to say the Knipex 71 12 200 could cut through a combination lock or is that too thick for this bolt cutter.

What is difference between the plain red color and that "cobalt" color though? I just noticed that through that link, I thought they all were "cobalt" color though.

 

[40oz]

A typical Master Lock 1500T combination lock has a 9/32" hardened steel shackle. That's 36" bolt cutter territory.

If you're looking to cut things with diameters/hardness similar to lock shackles, you should be looking at much larger cutters.

Other than that, my experience with Knipex has always been great.

 

[Titanium Steel]

40oz, I see. So it's diameters play a key factor in cutting materials. I am still learning more about bolt cutters, as in more extensive information, but that is really great information to know.

But actually a mini bolt cutter is more what I am looking for, as I don't think I'll ever cut a combination lock, I was merely curious.

I am thinking that a Knipex with a spring seems as if that would be much easier to work with than one without a spring, but that is merely based on some my tool experience. I have Klein Tools Wire cutters that use a spring and they are exceptionally easy to use (and they are made in USA as well.)

Thanks for the extra information though.

 

[magova1104]

Knipex are just the best bolt cutters (small size) I ever tried so far. For cutting a Master or even an American padlock, you can use a cordless grinder, it works! guaranteed.

 

[Titanium Steel]

Magova1104, wow I never thought of using a grinder for breaking a lock until now actually. I always thought of using one (as I have) to break apart material such as flashing and wood, but that actually sounds quite creative.

I am glad to see responses from others that have used the Knipex brand. I don't always stick with the brands I know (for example, I found Elklind when I needed a Tamper Resistant Torx size 5).

With a grinder though, it's awesome as you can use a diamond blade though. Nothing cuts like a diamond blade from past experience.

 

[rsieracki]

Knipex are just the best bolt cutters (small size) I ever tried so far. For cutting a Master or even an American padlock, you can use a cordless grinder, it works! guaranteed.

So does gripping the lock with a pair of visegrips and giving it a twist... depends on what the lock it 'locked' too tho.... but i know for a fact a master lock on a highschool locker type metal latch is no match for a pair of good visegrips... rips the shackle right out of the housing of the lock body.

no i dont have pics to prove it... but i was a juvenile delinquient with a toolbox back in the day

 

[magova1104]

Magova1104, wow I never thought of using a grinder for breaking a lock until now actually. I always thought of using one (as I have) to break apart material such as flashing and wood, but that actually sounds quite creative.

I am glad to see responses from others that have used the Knipex brand. I don't always stick with the brands I know (for example, I found Elklind when I needed a Tamper Resistant Torx size 5).

With a grinder though, it's awesome as you can use a diamond blade though. Nothing cuts like a diamond blade from past experience.

This is the tool that I tested breaking (cutting) American padlocks. http://www.ingersollrandproducts.com/am-en/products/tools/Iqv-cordless-tools/surface-prep/14_4v/GC25-3-14-4V-Cutoff-Tool

 

[Titanium Steel]

Rsieraki, I have some vintage vise grips and I can easily see that happening in a junior high setting. The vise grips are about 20-30 years old though. Another interesting concept though.

Magova1104, I've actually heard of Ingerollrand, but haven't in a long time. The web has a great deal of online shops, it's hard to remember even half anymore.

 

[rsieracki]

im a **** hair shy of 31 so perhaps your visegrips n i are the same vintage

on a side note... i keep eyeing those knipex mini bolt cutters also... not sure why as i have no 'need/use' for them but half the stuff i own falls into the same category

 

[magova1104]

So does gripping the lock with a pair of visegrips and giving it a twist... depends on what the lock it 'locked' too tho.... but i know for a fact a master lock on a highschool locker type metal latch is no match for a pair of good visegrips... rips the shackle right out of the housing of the lock body.

no i dont have pics to prove it... but i was a juvenile delinquient with a toolbox back in the day

Master locks are sold trough dollar store. Any kid can open it. My 11 years old daughter knows how to open them without break or force them. The combination code is a 30 second challenge for my daughter. American padlocks are not the best, but commercially, they are the "toughest", and you can't break them easy. Unless you use a grinder. Thanks God we have cordless tools now.

 

[rsieracki]

Master locks are sold trough dollar store. Any kid can open it. My 11 years old daughter knows how to open them without break or force them. The combination code is a 30 second challenge for my daughter. American padlocks are not the best, but commercially, they are the "toughest", and you can't break them easy. Unless you use a grinder. Thanks God we have cordless tools now.

my reply was sparked by:

A typical Master Lock 1500T combination lock has a 9/32" hardened steel shackle. That's 36" bolt cutter territory.

If you're looking to cut things with diameters/hardness similar to lock shackles, you should be looking at much larger cutters.

Other than that, my experience with Knipex has always been great.

a master lock was referenced... i totally agree that most master locks are POS

 

[shoturtle]

If you were going to cut harden steel, I would look at a much larger cutter. But for small bolt like m6 or smaller. The knives would do the job. Right tool for the right job.

 

[magova1104]

my reply was sparked by:



a master lock was referenced... i totally agree that most master locks are POS

I know. Sorry for been rude. I was just exposing my opinion about the master locks.

 

[40oz]

I know. Sorry for been rude. I was just exposing my opinion about the master locks.

Haha, damn it you guys. I only referenced Master because it's easy to find the shackle diameter online. The thread is about cutting with bolt cutters, not the other various ways that crappy locks fail! Would be interesting for a thread of its own though, as locks are presumably a tool. I did quite a bit of research for a new gym locker lock, gave up and got one of the stupid directional combination Masters, despite it having a very weak two-piece body held together with 3 "security" screws. Right tool for the right job, as shoturtle mentioned.

 

[Titanium Steel]

Thanks for all the responses everyone. I agree that the modern Master Lock combination locks are garbage these days, but the older ones were built to last.

40oz, which type of security screw did they have? Hexagonal security, Torx security, Torx plus security or was the screw a Triangular slotted security screw?

 

[jjjrmx5]

on a side note... i keep eyeing those knipex mini bolt cutters also... not sure why as i have no 'need/use' for them but half the stuff i own falls into the same category

While $39.99 is somewhat steep for the 8" bolt cutters, they are awesome to have around.

I first started using them years ago for cutting and modding door lock rods in vehicles as the metal lock rods on GM and Ford vehciles were more than most small cutter and dykes could handle. One around they are great for cutting coat hangers to make paint hangers, large dia. copper wire and romex.

They do have thier limit as M6 bolts are at the edge of what can be cut, especially if hardened.

Once you get up into the 1/4" and above steel and fasteners, it's time to buy the 18" Knipex big-boy bolt cutters which run around $129. Expensive? Yes, but there are a lot of cheap non-lasting bolt cutters out there.

For 1/2" and lock stuff, i break out the whiz wheel if in an air supplied shop or athe DeWalt battery saw with cutoff wheel or battery angle grinder with a cutoff wheel.

 

[Monte]

If you want to know what these bolt cutters can do simply take a piece of steel wire or so with you to a store and try them out (if no employee looks )

 

[Titanium Steel]

Monte: Oddly enough when I looked at these last (I think it was Lowes?) five employee's walked past me and while none of gave the look of "what are you doing." That area was surprisingly guarded, but then I looked at the price tag and thought "sounds about right."

 

[Monte]

just buy them I give you my personal guarantee that you will be satisfied

 

[Titanium Steel]

Monte: You gave me a brilliant idea and that is to take pictures I metal items I have around the house (one being attached to a wall) and this will actually give me a much clearer image of the capabilities of this Knipex 71 12 200. Here are the images.

If this Knipex bolt cutter can cut through all or most of those items, then I think I might have a better picture of this tool's capacity. I should note, on the last two images, that is piece of metal. It's easily over 30+ years old though.

 

[bcradio]

Monte: You gave me a brilliant idea and that is to take pictures I metal items I have around the house (one being attached to a wall) and this will actually give me a much clearer image of the capabilities of this Knipex 71 12 200. Here are the images.

If this Knipex bolt cutter can cut through all or most of those items, then I think I might have a better picture of this tool's capacity. I should note, on the last two images, that is piece of metal. It's easily over 30+ years old though.

It sounds like you have a few projects to try them out on when/if you get these. Good luck with it and I love mine.

 

[Robbie UK]

Would not be without mine. This is what a Canadian thinks of his:

 

[Titanium Steel]

Bcradio: I do indeed, but in your opinion, do you think this Knipex 71 12 200 would be able to cut into last two pictures and maybe the hex bolt above this item? Knipex wouldn't really provide an answer when I asked them, so I not really sure one way or another.

Robbie UK: I actually watched and re-watched that Youtube yesterday and today. While the bolt cutter this guy in Youtube is a different model than the one I am thinking of getting, he did a fantastic job.

Although I personally only use PB50 as lubrication for all my tools and even other items as well. Made in USA and you can get this for about $1.50, you can get a 32 oz can at Home Depot very easily. I know a mechanic with well over 33 years of experience who swears by PB50.

Thanks for that link though Robbie UK, that is a well put together video though and I think the only Knipex youtube video that isn't made by Knipex themselves.

 

[Robbie UK]

Yes the donyboy73 videos are pretty good and whilst aimed at beginners I will confess to learning a thing or two. I had been looking at the mini bolt cutters for a while and the video prompted me to go out and buy. Whilst the model shown is different to the model you are considering the cutting head is identical.

One of the cool things about the Knipex mini bolt cutters is that you can get them in regular, flush cut, soft handled, soft handled + return spring etc and in most combinations there of.

 

[vintagefan]

Lol just buy the darn things already... you WILL NOT find anything better, because it doesn't exist.

 

[Titanium Steel]

Vintagefan: Sorry for all the questions, I just want to have some proper education about these bolt cutters before buying them, given the price. Even though these look like fantastic well worth the cost bolt cutters. Thanks for all the patience though guys.

RobbieUk: So there are several variations, reminds me of my Xuron diagonal snips that bought. Not directly from Xuron themselves, but Ebay like Donyboy73 with his bolt cutter.

I would really like to thank each and every person for their help, thank you for taking the time to provide such helpful advice.