Knipex disappointment

[iScream]

I had $15 of Sears points to burn so I ordered a pair of 12" Knipex Alligator pipe pliers. Haven't owned any Knipex before but they get great reviews around here so I thought maybe I would begin to build a set.

Well they were delivered today and aren't quite what I was expecting. I thought I would be getting a really precisely machined tool. But my handles have a bunch of side to side play in them and the locking mechanism is pretty loose as well.

Was I expecting too much or did I get a bad pair? Maybe all the wiggling around the handles do is a "feature"?

Right now I'm not seeing what's supposed to be so great about them.

I would post pictures but I don't think they would really show what I'm talking about.

-Chris

 

[Youngguns]

Are you serious?

I'll just assume you're serious. There are so many factors that come into play for pliers of that style and size. First, and foremost, they're Alligators. They have a rough-and-tough construction designed to work with dirt and debris in the hinge. They're larger pliers, which generally don't have to be precisely machined; i.e., there's more tolerance allowance at that size. They're not for cutting, they're for biting. How are the teeth on them? Probably pretty damn nice. That's what you should be looking at.

You want precision? Check out their cutting tools.
Also, you want water pump pliers? Check out their Cobras. I don't really see the point in Alligators with the existence of the Cobras.

 

[upgrading]

I wasn't aware the Alligator had a locking mechanism.

 

[iScream]

Are you serious?

I'll just assume you're serious. There are so many factors that come into play for pliers of that style and size. First, and foremost, they're Alligators. They have a rough-and-tough construction designed to work with dirt and debris in the hinge. They're larger pliers, which generally don't have to be precisely machined; i.e., there's more tolerance allowance at that size. They're not for cutting, they're for biting. How are the teeth on them? Probably pretty damn nice. That's what you should be looking at.

You want precision? Check out their cutting tools.
Also, you want water pump pliers? Check out their Cobras. I don't really see the point in Alligators with the existence of the Cobras.

What exactly didn't seem serious about my post?

So, your answer is that I bought the wrong line of Knipex pliers if I expected them to be well machined? Is that what you tried to say above?

 

[iScream]

I wasn't aware the Alligator had a locking mechanism.

I mean the mechanism for locking them into different jaw opening widths. Is there a proper name for that?

 

[mrvm]

I had $15 of Sears points to burn so I ordered a pair of 12" Knipex Alligator pipe pliers. Haven't owned any Knipex before but they get great reviews around here so I thought maybe I would begin to build a set.
Well they were delivered today and aren't quite what I was expecting. I thought I would be getting a really precisely machined tool. But my handles have a bunch of side to side play in them and the locking mechanism is pretty loose as well.
Was I expecting too much or did I get a bad pair? Maybe all the wiggling around the handles do is a "feature"?
Right now I'm not seeing what's supposed to be so great about them.

None of my twenty plus Knipex (No Alligators) have poor machining or loose handles. Exchange them for a Cobra if it has not been too long.

 

[hautpot]

Alligators are sorta obsolete now, the Cobra is much easier to work with and there are more styles available.

 

[Youngguns]

What exactly didn't seem serious about my post?

So, your answer is that I bought the wrong line of Knipex pliers if I expected them to be well machined? Is that what you tried to say above?

Basically, yes. Or you have the wrong perspective. The parts of the Alligators that should be well machined, are well machined. That slop you're describing is just part of the position selection mechanism.

I may have come off with the wrong tone, and may still have the wrong tone, but all I'm saying is, don't give up on Knipex. I don't have a single Knipex tool I'm disappointed in. That list includes: 8" combination pliers, 8" diagonal pliers, 8" needle nose pliers, 10" plier wrench, 7" plier wrench, 10" Cobras, 7" Cobras, 5" Cobras, 8" mini bolt cutters, and 6" electrician pliers.

 

[iScream]

Basically, yes. Or you have the wrong perspective. The parts of the Alligators that should be well machined, are well machined. That slop you're describing is just part of the position selection mechanism.

OK, I see what you're saying. It's not like I researched the different lines of Knipex pliers before ordering. I found a set on the Sears site that were already on sale and applied my points to get them cheaper. I think I ended up paying $25 for them delivered to my door so I'm not out a bunch of money.

My mistake for not knowing what I was ordering. They do look like they can grip the hell out of a pipe with the long handles and sharp teeth so I'll just put them in the drawer.

-Chris

 

[defektes]

Use them before you dismiss them. I have those same pliers, they are SOLID. they do not need to be pretty or precise to kick ***. They blow channelocks out of the water, trust me try em out, they grip a lot better than channelocks and work very well with hex plumbing fittings.

The only down side vs channelock is it is more difficult to one hand adjust them.

 

[iScream]

None of my twenty plus Knipex (No Alligators) have poor machining or loose handles. Exchange them for a Cobra if it has not been too long.

I gottem pretty cheap so I don't think I can get a pair from the Cobra line for the same $$.

Alligators are sorta obsolete now, the Cobra is much easier to work with and there are more styles available.

Now you tell me.

Oh well, maybe someone else will read this and not make the same mistake.

-Chris

 

[rice rocket]

Alligators are still faster than Cobras if you know how to use them.

Quickset Cobras through...those are really good.

 

[Champo]

IMO Knipex's steel and heat treatment is equal with the best available, but the fit and finish is "functional". They'll work perfectly for their purpose but they are definitely not prettied up.

Having said that, my Cobras that I've had for around 7-8 years still work as well as they did when new (jaw play and all ). The teeth are still great and they've had some pretty rough use:

 

[hautpot]

I gottem pretty cheap so I don't think I can get a pair from the Cobra line for the same $$.



Now you tell me.

Oh well, maybe someone else will read this and not make the same mistake.

-Chris

Woah its not a mistake! The alligators have the same jaw geometry as the cobra the difference is the how you adjust it. I prefer the push button on the cobra; I should have used superior instead of obsolete.

Reqardless, the alligators are still a good investment for you, I was not trying to insult your purchase. I say just put the looseness in the back of your mind and put them to good use.

 

[Hlidskjalf]

I've crushed the teeth on all my Knipex pliers.

 

[Sine Swept]

I think it is important to understand as with all tools, each was designed with a purpose in mind. Using a tool as unintended will no doubt cause damage to a tool. Why are all the Snap on tools marked "Not designed for use as a chisel or punch", possibly to reinforce that idea?

 

[Fedwrench]

Alligators are sorta obsolete now, the Cobra is much easier to work with and there are more styles available.

Horse pucky

Alligators are far from obsolete. They're great pliers

 

[Tmct]

Personally, I like the alligators better than the Cobras. I just don't like the quick lock mechanism.

 

[pumaman]

ha. I have one of them alligators from way back. they are lightweight, strong, and kinda cool, but the slip joint is a pain.

i use my irwins now whenever possible.

 

[Can I try?]

OP, my alligators have the same play as you're describing, and I don't think they've loosened any with use. They're also my "go to" pliers at work, and one of the first tools I grab if my tool bag has to be left behind.

Between the alligator and cobra I wouldn't say one model is superior to another. They're just different. I understand that the alligator is an earlier design and cobra is intended as an improvement, but it doesn't always work out that way. It's a matter of perspective. I started out carrying the cobras for work. They didn't work too well with the moisture and dirt I was subjecting them to. The adjustment mechanism would bind in the conditions, and I found it difficult to clean. I then switched to the alligator, and they've worked great for me.

Use 'em before you dismiss 'em. I haven't been let down by a Knipex product yet.

 

[1950mercury]

I had $15 of Sears points to burn so I ordered a pair of 12" Knipex Alligator pipe pliers. Haven't owned any Knipex before but they get great reviews around here so I thought maybe I would begin to build a set.

Well they were delivered today and aren't quite what I was expecting. I thought I would be getting a really precisely machined tool. But my handles have a bunch of side to side play in them and the locking mechanism is pretty loose as well.

Was I expecting too much or did I get a bad pair? Maybe all the wiggling around the handles do is a "feature"?

Right now I'm not seeing what's supposed to be so great about them.

I would post pictures but I don't think they would really show what I'm talking about.

-Chris

They are a tool use it as a tool. They where not made to Polish and look pretty....

 

[MagnumForce]

Are you serious?

I'll just assume you're serious. There are so many factors that come into play for pliers of that style and size. First, and foremost, they're Alligators. They have a rough-and-tough construction designed to work with dirt and debris in the hinge. They're larger pliers, which generally don't have to be precisely machined; i.e., there's more tolerance allowance at that size. They're not for cutting, they're for biting. How are the teeth on them? Probably pretty damn nice. That's what you should be looking at.

You want precision? Check out their cutting tools.
Also, you want water pump pliers? Check out their Cobras. I don't really see the point in Alligators with the existence of the Cobras.

Fwiw I prefer my Alligators over my Cobras. Not sure why. They both have the same jaws and both "lock" onto things the same way.

I do know that when I am hanging of a press with one hand I can adjust the Alligators one handed and can't do that with my Cobras. I carry both at work though and almost always grab the Alligators over the Cobras no matter the application.

 

[iScream]

After reading some and looking at these things closer I get it a little more. Especially the slim profile and the handles contacting each other on both sides.

I'm not so disappointed now. Not sure if I want to start working on a Knipex collection either though. I might be more of a Channel Lock kinda guy but maybe I'll pick up a set of Knipex needle nose or something like that to try out. But I'll read some reviews first.

-Chris

 

[Brownsfan]

Don't buy Knipex needle nose. That's the one thing they don't do well . If you want to try another Knipex product try the cutting pliers or the mini bolt cutters . Those 2 and the type you bought are what they do best. I have a set of needle nose from Knipex and I hate them. Channellock and Kleins that I have are MUCH better

 

[IUEC Medic]

I carry the 6" and 10" pliers wrench in my everyday work bag. Totally different product but I use them every day... They don't round off bolts and the compound leverage to the jaws is amazing... The best way I can illustrate that, is that I can bend a quarter in half with Very little effort.

 

[TOOL FANATIK]

Are you serious?

I'll just assume you're serious. There are so many factors that come into play for pliers of that style and size. First, and foremost, they're Alligators. They have a rough-and-tough construction designed to work with dirt and debris in the hinge. They're larger pliers, which generally don't have to be precisely machined; i.e., there's more tolerance allowance at that size. They're not for cutting, they're for biting. How are the teeth on them? Probably pretty damn nice. That's what you should be looking at.

You want precision? Check out their cutting tools.
Also, you want water pump pliers? Check out their Cobras. I don't really see the point in Alligators with the existence of the Cobras.

cobras are nice but i prefer alligators for most work. alligators you can adjust your jaws with one hand, the jaw opening on the gators are wider as well.

 

[TOOL FANATIK]

They are a tool use it as a tool. They where not made to Polish and look pretty....

ehh. i think he gets a pass here. too much weeble wobble and jaws dont line up and nice pretty hands get all banged up...its a legitimate concern

op, now if youre asking about the tiny 1/32 of an inch **** hoir of play from side to side, then see1950mercury post above.

 

[Wamsutta]

I've had the same observation of the Craftsman branded Knipex Cobra pliers at Sears. I was surprised to see that they're not on par with the level of quality of my industrial store derived Knipex Cobras. The hinge joint was loose enough to where the jaws did not meet square. Maybe there's two tiers of quality for Knipex pliers; I don't know.

 

[neophyte]

I've had the same observation of the Craftsman branded Knipex Cobra pliers at Sears. I was surprised to see that they're not on par with the level of quality of my industrial store derived Knipex Cobras. The hinge joint was loose enough to where the jaws did not meet square. Maybe there's two tiers of quality for Knipex pliers; I don't know.

There aren't different levels of quality for knipex pliers except in regard to handle type and chrome of black finish on some models.

I have a pair of Knipex Cobra pliers that were purchased close to 15 years ago from MSC Industrial. The jaws don't meet up exactly either. There's probably some variation in the production of the pliers that isn't tracked, and the way the pliers are machined doesn't make up for the variation.

 

[Youngguns]

After reading some and looking at these things closer I get it a little more. Especially the slim profile and the handles contacting each other on both sides.

I'm not so disappointed now. Not sure if I want to start working on a Knipex collection either though. I might be more of a Channel Lock kinda guy but maybe I'll pick up a set of Knipex needle nose or something like that to try out. But I'll read some reviews first.

-Chris

Don't buy Knipex needle nose. That's the one thing they don't do well . If you want to try another Knipex product try the cutting pliers or the mini bolt cutters . Those 2 and the type you bought are what they do best. I have a set of needle nose from Knipex and I hate them. Channellock and Kleins that I have are MUCH better

I think Brownsfan may be referring to this:

Anyways, if you do decide to try more of the Knipex product line, I suggest you give the 8" mini bolt cutters or dykes a try. The bolt cutters will cut anything that will fit in between the jaws, and the dykes will be the last pair you'll ever need to buy.

 

[bob from indiana]

I bought 10" and 5 " cobras last year. They were ok but not my thing. I bought a pair of 7" alligators and they are fantastic , I use them every day. I plan to get some 10" alligators soon.

 

[popparoach]

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=298253&highlight=knipex how good of deal did you get compared to here>?

 

[iScream]

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=298253&highlight=knipex how good of deal did you get compared to here>?

Assuming you're talking to me, I paid a lot less for those pliers shipped to my door than I see on that site for the same pair. Like $15 less.

I think they're cheaper on Amazon than on that site, if you have prime.

 

[KnurledNut]

I have, and use frequently, alligators and cobras. Love them both. You will get used to the adjusting. Also, i have noticed the alligator profile is a little thinner. Not much. I dont think that has ever been mentioned on GJ.
The strength when they lock on is incredible.

 

[iScream]

I just looked at my order history and I actually got these a lot cheaper than I remembered.

$17.25

And I'll get another 10 percent of it cash back from BofA.

 

[Brownsfan]

I think Brownsfan may be referring to this:

Anyways, if you do decide to try more of the Knipex product line, I suggest you give the 8" mini bolt cutters or dykes a try. The bolt cutters will cut anything that will fit in between the jaws, and the dykes will be the last pair you'll ever need to buy.

I have never seen that video. I was talking from my own experience with that same pair actually. I got the really cheap at Lowe's when they clearanced them. They do flex like in that video plus the grip surface is not as "grippy" as my Klein set or even th MUCH CHEAPER Channellock set . Like half as much as Knipex at a non clearance price.

 

[fatfillup]

Alligators are sorta obsolete now, the Cobra is much easier to work with and there are more styles available.

I would have to disagree to a degree. Cobra's are nice with the locking feature and are more adjustable, but Alligator's jaws will open further. Has come in handy for me a number of times.

I am a real Knipex fanboy, probably have a dozen pair between shop, truck and home.

 

[Brownsfan]

Also. I have 3 sizes of the alligators. They all have some play but nothing extreme.

 

[Davefr]

Although I love Cobras, I'll have to agree with Brownsfan in that their needle nose pliers are really poor.

The tips of the jaws don't come together before the cutters and the serration pattern is totally ineffective. (Klein, SO and Channelock are far superior to Knipex in the needle nose category).

 

[maxpower_hd]

For you guys with the Plier Wrench, are they a decent substitute for an adjustable wrench?

I've been looking at the Snap On Flank Drive Plus adjustable wrenches but they are quite pricey. I was looking at the Plier Wrench and wasn't quite sure if they are what I need or not and I haven't seen any locally to pick up and look at.

I need something for air line fittings on trailers and equipment. The **** I work on is so old that everything is different so I end up with every wrench in my box out in the yard or under a trailer to replace a line, fitting or whatever. A normal adjustable sometimes works but sometimes is too fat to fit when I need two wrenches for example or where someone cobbled multiple fittings, reducers, etc to make something work. Also, sometimes these things get pretty tight from either someone over tightening them or because there is corrosion from road dirt and salt, dissimilar metals, etc. so the adjustable or even normal wrenches can slip off or round brass fittings easily. The Flank Drive Plus adjustables are thinner than normal adjustables and open up to a pretty large size compared to similar sized Crescent wrenches. I have used Flank Drive traditional wrenches and they work really well so I like the Flank part. And I have use similar SO adjustable so I'm confident the SO will do the trick. I'm just not sure I want to spring for $160 or so for two adjustable wrenches. The Plier Wrench may be a decent compromise.