Knipex German Forging quality aesthetics

[maico]

When I got my 250mm Pilers wrench I was surprised that the forging was left unfinished in some areas. Machined neatly where it needs to be but left where it doesn't.
There is probably a German term about being honest with the material here. Make it look like metal rather than plastic. It's also a cheaper way of doing things without affecting performance.

French made Facom for comparison

Austrian made Gedores

 

[Monte]

Other Knipex tools have a different look...
a couple of minutes in a vibratory tumbler would probably improve the look but also increase the cost and the pliers wrench is already on the expensive side....

 

[maico]

I'm not singling out Knipex in particular. You can find some rough finishes from other German manufacturers on certain tools. Hazet, stahlwille, Gedore and NWS come to mind.

I have a new tool haul coming in and I'm hopeful these Knipex x-cut pliers using a box construction and chrome plating will be excellent.

Google trawl images

 

[kctyphoon]

seriously??

 

[brook41]

My thoughts exactly!

 

[bahcoswed]

An rough surface look the same after 30 years of wrenching...Polished tools doesnt

 

[maico]

Is that dimple in the first photo a Rockwell hardness test ?

 

[PureLeaf]

I bought these about a week ago, never used them. They're brand new. They've got little micro holes all over. The photo below is just one area of these little holes. I just figured thats how Knipex makes this tool. If it bothers you, dont give Knipex your money. Figured if these holes or some of the crude finishing ever lead to failure, then it'd be cause to warranty them as that would truly be a manufacturing defect.

Though from what I've read on this website, warrantying with Knipex basically just doesn't happen.

View media item 50240

 

[maico]

I bought these about a week ago, never used them. They're brand new. They've got little micro holes all over. The photo below is just one area of these little holes. I just figured thats how Knipex makes this tool. If it bothers you, dont give Knipex your money. Figured if these holes or some of the crude finishing ever lead to failure, then it'd be cause to warranty them as that would truly be a manufacturing defect.

Though from what I've read on this website, warrantying with Knipex basically just doesn't happen.




View media item 50240

For some reason the XL seems to have a perfect finish. Perhaps because it's the newest variant. My guess is the forging dies have worn out on the most popular sizes ?

 

[Kirbot]

I can't say it would really bother me, but I do agree with the OP.
I don't own any, but I've been really un-impressed with the finish on most German wrenches that I've seen posted here.

On the other hand, everything that I own, and everything that I've seen from Facom, looks immaculate.

 

[PureLeaf]

I see what you're saying Maico. Especially compared to those XLs. I wasn't too impressed with the purchase of that latest pair that I uploaded the pic of. (They're 12 inch). I've got another set of 12s and they look better.

If you decide to contact Knipex let us know how it goes.

It is an premium product, and perfectly finished adjustable wrenches can be had much cheaper.

 

[sonvolt]

I don't see the issue they are tools.

 

[Jeremy77]

If the finish is unsettling to you, I can give you my shipping info and feel free to send them my way. Just imagine the stress that your mind could be freed from knowing that they are now my problem. ��

 

[Kirbot]

Sarcasm aside, no matter how good the tools might be, you can't deny there are a lot of cheaper pliers/wrenches that are finished a whole lot nicer...

 

[oldtools]

How come the German get a pass for low quality surface finish, but the Indian get wip for low quality surface finish.

I do agree that I am not too impress with German tool surface finish. I have some Hazet and other German tools. If it was not for the Hazet name on it, I would have thought it come from China or India.

 

[Jeremy77]

Just joking in my other post, the finish is rough, but I'm willing to bet that the quality of steel used and machining of the tools are both far better than most Chinese and any Indian tools on the market. I work in heavy industry so satin finish is considered nice, a lot of oxide is the norm.

 

[Jeremy77]

It'd be nice to have both strength/reliability/quality and a nice finish but given the choice, I'll take quality everytime. It's more than likely a cost savings for Knipex to leave those parts "unfinished".

 

[tweedlestan]

I have seen cheap tools with flawless finishes break. I have seen good tools finished like that Knipex or worse least for decades.

 

[oldtools]

In this post, we are not talking about material strength, we are talking about surface finish. If the Chinese can make a $5 plier with good surface finish, the German should be able to do it as well with a $40 plier.

I do have some Snap On industrial wrench (black oxide) that have not too great of a surface finish. Seem like they just stamped the wrench and put black oxide on it without polishing the wrench first.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I prefer the matte/industrial finish on my knipex tools. Just me though...

 

[Jeremy77]

The pliers wrench is basically a modified Crescent or adjustable wrench as opposed to a "normal" pair of pliers. You normally don't see a Crescent with a finely polished/smoothed finish as it's not a precision tool in the way that a Snap On, Armstrong etc. combo wrench is. Perhaps the engineers and designers at Knipex decided that since the tool would fill the roll of an adjustable wrench, a similar "rough" finish would be appropriate. I own only 1 pair of Knipex pliers, an 8" diagonal cutter, and the finish on those are as good or better than any Klein or Cannellock diagonals that I've ever owned so I think that manufacturers in Germany can and domake a quality finish on some tools. Also, they may not be as concerned with aesthetics, especially on a tool, as we here in the U.S. Personally I like the "industrial" look as it holds up better long term when tools are heavily used than a nice polished/chromed treatment.

 

[malykaii]

I just very recently decided I want to explore German tools. Hence I ordered some loose stahlwille, hazet, and elora open wrenches. I got the hazet last week. Excellent feel and a fairly uniform satin finish. While the texture is very close to some h.f. wrenches, the quality is clearly better. Got the stahlwille a few days ago and just opened the elora right now. Both are as inconsistent and ugly as cheap Indian tools.



^Stahlwille wrench. It seriously looks like someone shaped the thing with a bench grinder. Its not even consistent, all sorts of weird angles.

Its kind of like buying a car. if your buying a base model elantra, it's fair for the to maker to cut back on expenses like power windows to get you the most reliable car for the money. However, once you budget for a BMW 5, skimping on power windows will turn off a customer far more than an extra $100.

Yes, it's just a tool, but if a stahlwille wrench is $20 while a snap on is $25 including a warranty, clearly the s.o is cheaper. Once your in the top tier market, what's another dollar to make the product at least presentable. The elora wrench is fugly too, but it cost under $7, hence see analogy above.

 

[oldtools]

When you are paying for a $130 wrench like the SO, not only do you expect it to be high quality but also look high quality. I don't want a Ferrari to have the look of a Cavelier.

 

[malykaii]

^Damn strait yo!

When I open up my wrench drawer every morning and see all that money I spent, I want something pretty staring back at me. Sure we all have some ugly and cheap offsets, stubby, half moon, or what nots... But those aren't front/center daily users.

 

[shockwave]

Like what has been said previously most German wrenches have a brushed/satin finish I personally like it I never anything like chrome peeling that I have had from all truck brands
Functionality over pretty and shiny

 

[Skin]

Satin finish peels just as readily. Full polish might not look as great after years of use but its still only a quick wipe of the rag to clean them and they both work the same.

 

[malykaii]

To my understanding, no one in this thread ever was complaining about satin finish... I think the point was that a lot of the stuff looks "half baked".

 

[Mechanical Noise]

My first pair of Vise-Grip pliers actually had a rougher finish. I've bought others since then and those pliers were all better finished and also had tighter joints. Looks aside, my newer Vise-Grips were just somewhat better tools.

I see this sort of rough finish as a production compromise that only a company which has a reputation for quality can get away with. If the same finish were on a PITTSBURGH tool, I'd KNOW for sure it was junk.

 

[Jure]

it seems fine to me...speaking of 3 top brand from germany (hazet,stahlwille and gedore) gedore's finish is the worst one..

 

[Kirbot]

To my understanding, no one in this thread ever was complaining about satin finish... I think the point was that a lot of the stuff looks "half baked".

^^^ this


I like satin, as long as it's well done. IE the metal needs to be smooth and uniform (or just cheap)


This is probably the nicest looking satin I have

 

[MagnumForce]

The pliers wrench is basically a modified Crescent or adjustable wrench as opposed to a "normal" pair of pliers. You normally don't see a Crescent with a finely polished/smoothed finish as it's not a precision tool in the way that a Snap On, Armstrong etc. combo wrench is. Perhaps the engineers and designers at Knipex decided that since the tool would fill the roll of an adjustable wrench, a similar "rough" finish would be appropriate. I own only 1 pair of Knipex pliers, an 8" diagonal cutter, and the finish on those are as good or better than any Klein or Cannellock diagonals that I've ever owned so I think that manufacturers in Germany can and domake a quality finish on some tools. Also, they may not be as concerned with aesthetics, especially on a tool, as we here in the U.S. Personally I like the "industrial" look as it holds up better long term when tools are heavily used than a nice polished/chromed treatment.

Right... MY WF Craftsman adjustables and Irega Channellock Adjustables don't look like that.

 

[Wizzard]

I noticed varying finishes on 10" Knipex pliers wrenches when I was buying them off the shelf. I just picked the ones with the least slop (I do this for all plier type tools)...even though some of the others had a better 'finish.' But tighter tolerances are more important to me than looks.

 

[neophyte]

^^^ this


I like satin, as long as it's well done. IE the metal needs to be smooth and uniform (or just cheap)


This is probably the nicest looking satin I have

Is that an Italian made Facom ratchet?

 

[UserNameAttempt3]

There are different kinds of "forging"... these different types can also result in different finishes. Just because it says it's FORGED doesn't mean it's all the same.

 

[Kirbot]

Is that an Italian made Facom ratchet?

Yup, I didn't realize they made that style in Italy, but that's what the packaging says.

 

[neophyte]

Yup, I didn't realize they made that style in Italy, but that's what the packaging says.

I have a set of Facom DOE wrenches. Some have France stamped on them others don't so I presume they were made in Italy at the USAG factory since they were pre-Stanley production. The wrenches which lack the COO stamp have a more uniform finish like your ratchet. The older France stamped wrenches have a crisper finish from the forging and a slightly difference finish. A couple of them also have grind marks similar to the Stahlwille wrench above. I sort of figured the difference was a longer tumble in the vibratory finisher, or a thicker plating or both.

I sort of prefer the crisper forging. It may cost more to leave the wrenches in a tumbler for a longer period, or to put a thicker plating on, but the cost difference is probably far smaller than the cost of the guy who has to hand grind the wrench to spec.

 

[Kirbot]

I have a set of Facom DOE wrenches. Some have France stamped on them others don't so I presume they were made in Italy at the USAG factory since they were pre-Stanley production. The wrenches which lack the COO stamp have a more uniform finish like your ratchet. The older France stamped wrenches have a crisper finish from the forging and a slightly difference finish. A couple of them also have grind marks similar to the Stahlwille wrench above. I sort of figured the difference was a longer tumble in the vibratory finisher, or a thicker plating or both.

I sort of prefer the crisper forging. It may cost more to leave the wrenches in a tumbler for a longer period, or to put a thicker plating on, but the cost difference is probably far smaller than the cost of the guy who has to hand grind the wrench to spec.

I have a small set of beautifully finished open end wrenches (up to 9/16) I think they're made in France, I'll have to take some pictures tomorrow.

 

[Jeremy77]

A bit off topic, but talking about satin finishes...a guy I work with has a set of Wright Grip wrenches and those things have a beautiful satin finish. I love my Armstrongs but their finish isn't quite on the same level as those Wrights. He hasn't had them long though so I'll have check how they look in 6 months and reassess my opinion of them.

 

[bmxdad]

How come the German get a pass for low quality surface finish, but the Indian get wip for low quality surface finish.

I do agree that I am not too impress with German tool surface finish. I have some Hazet and other German tools. If it was not for the Hazet name on it, I would have thought it come from China or India.

How is it low quality? Because its not mirror smooth?

That looks like a raw forging, that was finished stamped, and given a little machining. It's a tool, not jewelry.

 

[ckblum]

I really like the way the Knipex are finished. I don't see it as them skimping out at all, this is the first time I've ever actually heard people whine about their lack of shininess on their tools.

The material itself is rock solid, I abuse these, my plier wrenches, cobras, cutters and my snap on duck bills all day. I'm glad they don't have a chromey, flakey finish. It wouldn't really make sense on a tool with this kind of use in mind when it was designed.

Funny cause no one is whining about how the finish is on Snap-On pliers, it's the same style, rough, industrial oxide finish.