Knipex high-leverage cutters

[Stuey]

Knipex TwinForce cutters preview via TG

The design looks a bit unusual. I don't like how Knipex mentions they slip on larger wires. Then again, most diags do.

There doesn't seem to be a force multiplier, so I wonder how it works. I guess it's something that one just has to feel.

Update: here's a video preview I put together:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/YEB14kRa0xQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

(Thanks to ChadsToolBox for sending over the sample unconditionally!)

 

[Stuey]

http://www.knipex.com/index.php?id=1216&L=1&page=group_detail&parentID=1367&groupID=2028

Any interest in a review/video? No?

 

[Monte]

yes !

 

[el tanque prohibido]

Slip joint diagonal cutters, hmm...

 

[Stuey]

Slip joint diagonal cutters, hmm...

Not quite. Even slipjoint pliers have centered pivots.

 

[el tanque prohibido]

Not quite. Even slipjoint pliers have centered pivots.

Does it work like slip joint pliers where you have a small opening setting and a large opening setting?

 

[ChrisF250]

Awesome I'm very interested I use crescents compound digs to cut nails. They've been great so far but I wonder if these or the nws versions would be better

 

[archirelic]

I have the NWS version and they've been great to work with. I keep looking the Knipex version over and I'm just not seeing how their placement of their joint is multiplying cutting force. It appears that its already along the natural movement the handles would make regardless.

I'd love for you to test a pair out Stuey.

 

[Stuey]

Does it work like slip joint pliers where you have a small opening setting and a large opening setting?

Not sure, but I hope to have a sample to look over soon.

I have the NWS version and they've been great to work with. I keep looking the Knipex version over and I'm just not seeing how their placement of their joint is multiplying cutting force. It appears that its already along the natural movement the handles would make regardless.

I'd love for you to test a pair out Stuey.

I LOVE the NWS Fantasticos as well.

With these, I thought there's a force multiplier, but can't visualize it either. But if not, then how are they claiming they're high-leverage and easier on the hands?

 

[archirelic]

It simply looks like the placement of the pivot allows the jaws to spread a tad bit wider, but no actual multiplication of force. I haven't had time to search around, but has Knipex released a promotional/product video of these TwinForce cutters?

 

[bsaint]

I have the other ones that look like mini bolt cutters, and I always found them hard it get into some places. I wonder if these are any better.

 

[Trucky]

I don't see it either. The idea is to put more movement into the handles and make the jaws move less as a result of the joint, which in turn puts more force on the jaws.. anyone knows that. Perhaps the TwinForce joint somehow lets that happen? I think the "pivot" is mirrored on the other side as well, offering some kind of force multiplication? I have no idea, I'd have to inspect it myself.

Who wants to bite the bullet on these? lol

 

[archirelic]

lol, I just recently placed an order with chadstoolbox and seriously contemplated getting a pair of these, but opted out of it. At the time I looked at them, they were listed for around 56 dollars, checked on them later and they had gone up a little bit more.

For that price, I'll just another pair of Knipex bolt cutters or another pair of my NWS fantastico cutters!

Stuey, it's now your mission to somehow acquire a pair of these and test them out for Garage Journal.

 

[jjjrmx5]

Stuey, it's now your mission to somehow acquire a pair of these and test them out for Garage Journal.

I second this.

One more vote and it's ratified.
Yea!
Go Stuey.


LOL.

 

[Hoss356]

To me it looks as if this design move the fulcrum or pivet point closer to the cutting edge therefore increasing leverage much like how bolt cutters work with the very inside blade and anvil never getting very far apart from each other, which would also explain the warning about larger gauged wire.

 

[Thedroid]

Those look like they would work better. It looks to me with an identical joint on the other side that you would have more leverage than a standard joint. It looks like each handle contibutes to the other side.

 

[archirelic]

To me it looks as if this design move the fulcrum or pivet point closer to the cutting edge therefore increasing leverage much like how bolt cutters work with the very inside blade and anvil never getting very far apart from each other, which would also explain the warning about larger gauged wire.

Good point, still need to see them in action though!!

 

[Monte]

here is a discussion in a russian forum - maybe they know the answer

http://www.mastercity.ru/showthread.php?t=155190

 

[jjjrmx5]

here is a discussion in a russian forum - maybe they know the answer

http://www.mastercity.ru/showthread.php?t=155190

Rasiya zamichatel naya strana!

LOL.

Ya tvaya ne pervaya

 

[Monte]

no comprende

 

[Hoss356]

He says, "Russia is wonderful country and other stuff".

 

[Danglerb]

I think the way its made has the effective pivot point very close to the cutter, closer than if a normal pin was used for the pivot. The increased force would then be from the ability to place a wire very close to the effective pivot point, hence more leverage.

 

[Stuey]

http://translate.google.com/transla...p://www.mastercity.ru/showthread.php?t=155190

Summary: they don't understand how it works either. It's worth a read, the translations are okay, amusing in some cases.

It looks like these are basically super-high-leverage, with the pivot moved as forward as can be.

Fully open, you have extreme leverage and force multiplication via a high handle-pivot-jaw length ration.

But as you close the jaws, you lose some of that leverage. Knipex's usage tips say to reapply once you feel the hand force increasing, confirming this.

 

[kupeport]

if you compare the V that the two cutting edges make versus your regular diagonal cutter, you can make out what Danglerb was saying. So i guess this makes it work better, but imho, the mini bolt cutters would still have more leverage in it.

 

[superautobacs]

I could be totally wrong but here's my initial thinking....

Don't cutting pliers have an anvil side and a cutting side? Does the joint on this Knipex plier make effective use of both cutting edges equally? ....instead of having only one side exerting the cutting force against another?

 

[superautobacs]

Here's some pictures to illustrate the difference between the standard and compound joint pliers.

Cutting a 3mm hardened wire

Impossible tyring to cut through it with both hands

The smiling face says it all.

 

[Trucky]

I could be totally wrong but here's my initial thinking....

Don't cutting pliers have an anvil side and a cutting side? Does the joint on this Knipex plier make effective use of both cutting edges equally? ....instead of having only one side exerting the cutting force against another?

I'm thinking no. While it sounds nice in concept, it doesn't really ring true. The force distributed is still the same amount no matter if it's 1 jaw moving to cut while the other is stationary or both of them are trying to cut at the same time. In both cases, it cuts equally "as well". The joint in the "twinforce" plier has to allow for higher leverage somehow, it's not just a balancing act between the forces on both jaws.

As for the anvil thing, that's only Channellock as far as I know. Everyone as (again, as far as I know) uses two sharp edges. I have a few pair of knipex, channellock, craftsman, and a few others and I've only seen it on the CL's.

 

[Danglerb]

I think I nailed how it works, but I will take a second swing at explaining. A conventional pin pivot cutter with a pin 1/4 in diameter means you can't place the wire any closer to the center of the pivot than half the diameter, 1/8". This new cutter removes the insides of the pivot pin and uses those sliding sections like the outside edge of a much larger pin, and that allows the wire to go right at the pivot for higher leverage.

Its not about the motion of the cutter or the handles, its where on the cutter blades in relation to the pivot point you can place a wire.

 

[Trucky]

That sounds much better. So basically it starts out as really high leverage, but as you cut, the "pivot" sort of pulls backwards away from the inside of the jaws, lowering the leverage. Sounds like something that works but could also use a bit more work lol.

 

[Danglerb]

Maybe the wire slides out a little due to the angle of the jaws sometimes?

 

[Stuey]

That sounds much better. So basically it starts out as really high leverage, but as you cut, the "pivot" sort of pulls backwards away from the inside of the jaws, lowering the leverage. Sounds like something that works but could also use a bit more work lol.

Exactly as I currently see it.

Maybe the wire slides out a little due to the angle of the jaws sometimes?

Yep. I believe I even saw mention of this on the Knipex website.

There are also usage tips.

 

[jflores]

I think I'll stay with my NWS Fantastico.

 

[VinDSL]

Greenlee 9" high-leverage side cutters, FTW!

They're available in a smaller 8" version too...

 

[greasemonkey44]

Greenlee 9" high-leverage side cutters, FTW!

They're available in a smaller 8" version too...

wish i could find an electrician that looks like that

 

[Stuey]

Okay, so I have a sample in-hand, and from what I can tell, the high leverage comes from an imaginary pivot.

These cutters are also 7" long.

 

[archirelic]

Okay, so I have a sample in-hand, and from what I can tell, the high leverage comes from an imaginary pivot.

These cutters are also 7" long.

 

[fordbroncodave]

there is nothing to worry about. knipex knows what they are doing. they make the finest pliers on the planet

 

[el tanque prohibido]

So what's the advantage of these latest cutters; is it leverage, or is it wire diameter capacity?

 

[Stuey]

there is nothing to worry about. knipex knows what they are doing. they make the finest pliers on the planet

*among the finest pliers*

So what's the advantage of these latest cutters; is it leverage, or is it wire diameter capacity?

Greater leverage -> smaller tool -> less hand force required -> less fatigue

 

[Trucky]

How about some really cool hi-def pictures of this thing?