Knipex Linesman Pliers issue

[Ace19636]

I am having a slight issue with Knipex linesman pliers I am a little confused. I am new to Knipex tools and I got turned onto them by this form so I bought some and they failed on me a few weeks latter. Let me put some back story behind it, I am a Firefighter and abuse my pliers like nothing else. They need to handle way more then a mechanic or DIY user would require of them. So my first pair when I started in the fire service two years ago were made by craftsman and broke on me in the fire academy. Sears would not cover them under warranty so I bought a pair of Kobalt linesman pliers which are still kicking to this day but I wanted to try out Knipex because they were supposed to be higher end almost up there with Snap-On. So I got a pair and a few weeks into it I broke one of the jaws while trying to take the hinge pins off of a door. I called up Knipex and they sent me a new pair that I broke the jaws on a month latter. I am currently waiting on another pair of replacements but am confused as to why this is happening. My pair of Kobalt pliers have yet to fail me yet they are supposedly an inferior brand. Is something to do with the steel where they are harder and snap easier or something?

 

[KnurledNut]

Could you post a pic of the broken jaws on your current pair?

 

[Ace19636]

I wish I had thought about taking a picture but they have already been sent in to Knipex. They broke right where the teeth and the cutters meet on the jaw both times. I was banging on them with some fencing pliers when they did it but I have done that a few dozen times with the Kobalts and my NWS pliers and they are still holding strong just some marring here and there. If it happens with the third pair I will post a picture, Im hopping it won't. On the fire ground they become every tool in the tool box, I use them as pliers, cutters, hammer, pry bar... you name it. I know its not good for the tool but we are a small volunteer department with very little funding so we don't always have the right tool for the job.

 

[Youngguns]

They broke right where the teeth and the cutters meet on the jaw both times. I was banging on them with some fencing pliers when they did it..

http://www.knipex.com/index.php?id=1216&L=1&page=group_detail&parentID=1357&groupID=1362
"cutting edges additionally induction hardened, cutting edge hardness approx. 64 HRC"

64 Rc is pretty hard, and pretty brittle. When you force those blades to do much beyond what they're designed for, they're not going to handle very well.
Knipex is top notch (almost as good as Snap On ), but just as you wouldn't judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, you wouldn't judge a pair of pliers on how well they work as a hammer or pry bar.
I have noticed specialty pliers that Channellock sells. I have no experience with them, but it seems that they're marketed towards firefighters and other emergency occupations. Perhaps you could look into those?

 

[Ace19636]

http://www.knipex.com/index.php?id=1216&L=1&page=group_detail&parentID=1357&groupID=1362
"cutting edges additionally induction hardened, cutting edge hardness approx. 64 HRC"

64 Rc is pretty hard, and pretty brittle. When you force those blades to do much beyond what they're designed for, they're not going to handle very well.
Knipex is top notch (almost as good as Snap On ), but just as you wouldn't judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, you wouldn't judge a pair of pliers on how well they work as a hammer or pry bar.
I have noticed specialty pliers that Channellock sells. I have no experience with them, but it seems that they're marketed towards firefighters and other emergency occupations. Perhaps you could look into those?

Oh trust me I am not saying they are bad, They are beautiful tools I just wanted to figure out why they were breaking on me so I knew what to look for If wanted a new pair. I am in no way saying Knipex makes bad tools Im sure they would be amazing for a mechanic. I love the Channellock concept but the handles have so much going on its hard to grab the very end for more leverage so I ended up not getting any. I understand I ask my pliers to do way more then they should ever have to do, but I have limited space to fill with tools on my bunker gear so what I put in there has to be a jack of all trades.

 

[ovrrdrive]

If you want good lineman pliers you need to buy the brand all of the linesmen use. Klein.

I can't tell you how many times I've used mine as a hammer or cut 1/4" steel strand with them. They show some wear but they still have another 20 years in them. This is what's in my tool bag:

http://www.kleintools.com/catalog/h.../9-229-mm-high-leverage-side-cutting-pliers-1

 

[Ace19636]

If you want good lineman pliers you need to buy the brand all of the linesmen use. Klein.

I can't tell you how many times I've used mine as a hammer or cut 1/4" steel strand with them. They show some wear but they still have another 20 years in them. This is what's in my tool bag:

http://www.kleintools.com/catalog/h.../9-229-mm-high-leverage-side-cutting-pliers-1

Sweet, I will try them out... Looks like they are made in the USA I like that they have dipped handles since the first thing I do is tear them off and that makes things easy. Its not fun having the handles of your pliers melt to your glove

 

[hautpot]

Sweet, I will try them out... Looks like they are made in the USA I like that they have dipped handles since the first thing I do is tear them off and that makes things easy. Its not fun having the handles of your pliers melt to your glove

Also made in USA with no handles!

http://www.steritool.com/tools/wire_twister.htm

 

[fivespdcat]

I think it would help if we knew exactly what you needed to do with them. It almost seems like a good set of Channellock fence pliers may be the direction to go. ..

 

[Fender1325]

You abuse a tool its going to break. Get the right tool for the job. If this is what you do, you need the right tool - especially in emergency situations. I bet the kobalts are made out of some cheap, maleable steel that has flex, while the others are hardened and brittle - better at their purpose but not being hit. Atleast Buy a cheap set of chisels and a hammer. Then you can bang those door pins off. Or get a good hardened punch that you can tap the pins out from below. Or keep a 1/4" impact driver with you and just unscrew the hinges altogether.

That being said maybe give some kleins a chance? Theyre sold at home depot (maybe lowes?). About $40 but nice stuff! I love mine

 

[ovrrdrive]

Sweet, I will try them out... Looks like they are made in the USA I like that they have dipped handles since the first thing I do is tear them off and that makes things easy. Its not fun having the handles of your pliers melt to your glove

I believe they make them without the dipped handles too. See if this one fits you better:

http://www.kleintools.com/catalog/h...rs/9-229-mm-high-leverage-side-cutting-pliers

They have several models available depending on your needs. All Klein tools are high quality. I have no problem recommending them to anyone.

 

[altec876]

Definitely try the kliens there really isn't a better linesman plier. Been lineman for twenty years nothing beats em.

 

[Jurt]

maybe you should look at the channellock rescue tool
https://www.channellock.com/blog/post/2015/4/22/CHANNELLOCKc2aee28099s-All-New-9e2809d-86-Rescue-Tool.aspx

 

[Fender1325]

Oh btw, the kleins arent in the typical tool section of HD or lowes (i forget which one it was I bought mine from) but theyre in the electrical section sort've hidden a little.

 

[kctyphoon]

If you want good lineman pliers you need to buy the brand all of the linesmen use. Klein.

i use Knipex

not sure what you need to do with these things OP, but my suggestion is to ask what your fellow fire fighters are using. i would think a 20 year guy would have figured this out for you already.

if it must be linesman pliers, and your kobalts work - then why search for anything else? sometimes more expensive doesnt mean better for your specific situation. if you wanna try something else, try the Channellock pliers. I believe the metal they use is not as hard as the Knipex and Klien models. i cant imagine what you must be doing to these things to snap the jaws off just using the handles for leverage.

 

[Ace19636]

i use Knipex

not sure what you need to do with these things OP, but my suggestion is to ask what your fellow fire fighters are using. i would think a 20 year guy would have figured this out for you already.

if it must be linesman pliers, and your kobalts work - then why search for anything else? sometimes more expensive doesnt mean better for your specific situation. if you wanna try something else, try the Channellock pliers. I believe the metal they use is not as hard as the Knipex and Klien models.

They say a good quality pair of linesman's and fencing pliers almost all of them recommend Channellock, I thought I would go away from the all mighty Channellocks lol maybe a bad move.

Love the Input guys, The Klein seem to be the most suggested so I will be giving them a go. To explain I do a ton of things with my pliers and as of right now I keep a pair of Channellock fencing pliers and Kobalt linesman pliers in my gear. I use the pair to do a number of tasks, cut wire both hard and soft, cut car battery cables, pry off locks, open residential doors, remove hinge pins on outward swinging doors, hammer just about anything that need hammering, breaking windows, closing gas lines, and cutting fencing just to name a few. I wish I could carry a whole tool box but normally I get what I have in my pockets and one tool off the truck (considering the tool I want or need got put back)

 

[rlitman]

If you want good lineman pliers you need to buy the brand all of the linesmen use. Klein.

I can't tell you how many times I've used mine as a hammer or cut 1/4" steel strand with them.

I've got several pairs of Kleins and one pair of Knipex. The Knipex are superior in almost every way, but Klein may actually be a better choice for the OP.

http://www.knipex.com/index.php?id=1216&L=1&page=group_detail&parentID=1357&groupID=1362
"cutting edges additionally induction hardened, cutting edge hardness approx. 64 HRC"

You hit the nail on the head. Knipex linesmans pliers are hardened to cut piano wire. These jaws are much more likely to break when abused by whacking them sideways with a hammer (or fencing pliers, etc). Most Klein linesmans pliers will suffer damage at the cutting edge when cutting a nail, except for the "heavy duty cutting" premium "9NE" models that have hardened cutting edges to cut hardened wire. And I would expect those same 9NE models to fail in the same way when abused as the OP is doing.

Now I'm not saying Ace19636 should stop abusing tools the way he is. His situation is one where you do whatever it takes to get the job done, with the tools at hand. If that includes sacrificing a tool, so be it. Though of course, failure of a tool means you now have one less tool at hand for the moment. Not a good thing of course.

But I believe this is one situation where a "cheaper" tool may be superior. The linesmans pliers with edges that are not designed to cut hardened steel wire will wear out a little faster, but will likely not shatter when smacked sideways. A regular pair of Kleins may be the best choice here (just stay away from the ones rated to cut ACSR and hardened wire for THIS use case, even though that is exactly what I would recommend for anyone else). Channellock is another option, almost as good as Klein. Both are worlds ahead of Kobalt, and any other import.

BTW, that Craftsman mentioned in the OP absolutely should be warrantied. If you still have it, take it to a different store.

 

[iScream]

Sounds like a crappy lower hardness steel tool is probably just what you need.

It's really hard to believe there aren't specialized tools for general purpose fire fighting tasks though that would have been field tested by your peers many times over by now.

Actually, something seems a little odd about this whole thread. I seriously doubt anyone is cutting automotive battery cables with linesman pliers, regardless of brand. I've tried it with decent diagonal cutters and it just don't work very well at all.

My Klein cable cutters (count 8 from the left) below are just barely up to the task of cutting any cable thicker than 4 gauge.

 

[Negen]

Keiba makes some really great linesmen pliers I have series 022 and they are great and stout. They are made with some of their own metal combinations which make them quite unique. Below are some links to consider.

http://www.keiba-tool.com/keiba/en/series/018/
http://www.keiba-tool.com/keiba/en/series/022/
http://www.keiba-tool.com/keiba/en/series/023/
http://www.keiba-tool.com/keiba/en/series/024/

 

[AA/FC]

It's really hard to believe there aren't specialized tools for general purpose fire fighting tasks though that would have been field tested by your peers many times over by now.

There are specially made tools for firefighters..... they are made by Channellock. Looks like 4 different models to choose from.

https://www.channellock.com/rescue-tool.aspx

 

[Whiplash316]

Firefighter here also. I carry a channel lock brand slip joint pair of pliers and a channel lock brand cable cutter. As far as other tools go, I carry an aluminum folding spanner wrench which doubles as a gas meter shut off tool and a pry bar. I also carry a small flat head screwdriver, spring loaded punch, and trauma sheers. This has been the best combination of hand tools that I have found.

 

[rednotch]

maybe you should look at the channellock rescue tool
https://www.channellock.com/blog/post/2015/4/22/CHANNELLOCKc2aee28099s-All-New-9e2809d-86-Rescue-Tool.aspx

or the 87

http://www.thefirestore.com/store/p...ol-Compact-4-Function-Tool-with-Cable-Cutter/

 

[Ace19636]

Sounds like a crappy lower hardness steel tool is probably just what you need.

It's really hard to believe there aren't specialized tools for general purpose fire fighting tasks though that would have been field tested by your peers many times over by now.

Actually, something seems a little odd about this whole thread. I seriously doubt anyone is cutting automotive battery cables with linesman pliers, regardless of brand. I've tried it with decent diagonal cutters and it just don't work very well at all.

My Klein cable cutters (count 8 from the left) below are just barely up to the task of cutting any cable thicker than 4 gauge.

There are some made for firefighters but they are basicly channellock linesman pliers with a spanner wrench, pry bar, gas shutoff and glass breaker. All that stuff gets in the way of the main pliers which is why some of my coworkers and I dont like them. Also they are expensive for a single pair of pliers and most of the guys at my department are volunteers so they cant afford them. We have some specized tools on the trucks which we use to great effect, but most of the time if you are on the hose or are the first on the scene in a personal vehicle you only get whats in your pockets and have to make do with that. Most of use regular tools from the hardware store, some may be modified others are as they come. As for cutting the cables, the may not be the best but I have not had much issue cutting battery cables with some linesmans. Some times I have to cut a little, change my angle and then cut some more but I would rather that then carry another pair of pliers that is too much weight.

Firefighter here also. I carry a channel lock brand slip joint pair of pliers and a channel lock brand cable cutter. As far as other tools go, I carry an aluminum folding spanner wrench which doubles as a gas meter shut off tool and a pry bar. I also carry a small flat head screwdriver, spring loaded punch, and trauma sheers. This has been the best combination of hand tools that I have found.

Thats a good combination, my whole tool selection consists of linemans pliers, fencing pliers, a fixed blade, large flat head insulated screwdriver, trauma shears and a leatherman which so far has worked for me till I try to replace somethng...

I don't really have a specific recommendation for you, but if I were in the same situation I would look towards Klein or Channellock for a solution. I would also stay away from "high leverage" varieties of lineman pliers. Pliers like the Channellock 349 or 369 for example. If you look at pictures of them, they achieve higher leverage by making the hinge rivet/pin smaller in diameter and then pushing it really close to the cutting edges. Yes you have better leverage but the metal around the hinge is very thin in places and I wouldn't trust the hinge to last under hammering forces no matter what brand it was. The original style lineman pliers have a much larger hinge pin that is centered with lots of metal all around it so it should fare much better.

In terms of a way to possibly test your pliers before putting them into the field would be to try a metal file test. Try running a metal file along various parts of the pliers and make sure that the majority of the plier body grabs the metal file and allows file marks to be made in the metal. If the metal file instead wants to just skip over the surface of the pliers that means that the pliers were made to a high level of hardness which is a good indication that you have a pair of pliers that will be too brittle to handle much hammering without fracturing. You might want to do the file test on your Kobalt pliers and see how close any other pliers are to them since they work the best.

That all being said I personally think that lineman pliers would be pretty terrible at removing door hinge pins. Everything about them is just designed poorly for that application. I would think that a nice sized flathead screwdriver (possibly with a simple custom knurled aluminum rod handle to prevent melting issues) and a hammer would do a much better job of knocking them out quickly. I have removed many hinge pins and that's how I do it, but I am also not a fireman, so I am sure there is more to it than I realize.

You also might want to look into something like the Channellock 950s or 951s ironworker's pliers instead of a standard lineman plier. They have a more rounded head design so there is a little more metal mass around the tooth/cutter interface, they have standard large centered hinge rivets, a small bend on the end of one handle to help you hold onto them better and the handles are spring loaded which makes them easier to use while wearing thick gloves.

Last but not least, thank you for doing what you do, it is appreciated. I have several family members that are volunteer firefighters and/or EMTs and I have seen firsthand how it can be a thankless job sometimes.

I use this combantion because if I grasp the pin with the linesmans pliers and give it a sharp smack with the fencing pliers the pin will pop right out. I have bent several screwdrivers doing this and in my experience it takes longer. Its a trick a 20 year vet showed me and so for we have not found anything better.

 

[twertsy]

There are some made for firefighters but they are basicly channellock linesman pliers with a spanner wrench, pry bar, gas shutoff and glass breaker. All that stuff gets in the way of the main pliers which is why some of my coworkers and I dont like them. Also they are expensive for a single pair of pliers and most of the guys at my department are volunteers so they cant afford them. We have some specized tools on the trucks which we use to great effect, but most of the time if you are on the hose or are the first on the scene in a personal vehicle you only get whats in your pockets and have to make do with that. Most of use regular tools from the hardware store, some may be modified others are as they come. As for cutting the cables, the may not be the best but I have not had much issue cutting battery cables with some linesmans. Some times I have to cut a little, change my angle and then cut some more but I would rather that then carry another pair of pliers that is too much weight.





Thats a good combination, my whole tool selection consists of linemans pliers, fencing pliers, a fixed blade, large flat head insulated screwdriver, trauma shears and a leatherman which so far has worked for me till I try to replace somethng...





I use this combantion because if I grasp the pin with the linesmans pliers and give it a sharp smack with the fencing pliers the pin will pop right out. I have bent several screwdrivers doing this and in my experience it takes longer. Its a trick a 20 year vet showed me and so for we have not found anything better.

Wait, the channellocks are expensive? I have Knipex linesman pliers and they were way more expensive than those special purpose channellocks.

 

[Ace19636]

Wait, the channellocks are expensive? I have Knipex linesman pliers and they were way more expensive than those special purpose channellocks.

I paid about $33 bucks for the Knipex, but the lowest I can find the channellocks is about $45 granted for me thats not that much its expensive for the volunteers though. I have some of the Channellocks I just dont like them and find them hard to use as actual pliers.

 

[canbug]

When you are using your Kein's as a hammer, don't hit the man on the pole. That is the stamped side and using that side will slightly oval the pin and make them hard to open. When you pick up a pair, take a look at them and you'll know what I mean.

Tim.

 

[rlitman]

When you are using your Kein's as a hammer, don't hit the man on the pole. That is the stamped side and using that side will slightly oval the pin and make them hard to open. When you pick up a pair, take a look at them and you'll know what I mean.

Tim.

+1 Here's a guy who understands pliers!

 

[jetdawg]

Definitely try the kliens there really isn't a better linesman plier. Been lineman for twenty years nothing beats em.

You've obviously not used knipex.

 

[redwrench60]

For rough service all around use I really like Klein's 2000 series Ironworker pliers. They're like a pair of Linemans but with much more aggressive teeth, a bigger forged head and a slight kickout on one handle that helps when really pulling and twisting hard. The cutters are also rated for cutting hardened materials not just copper. The broader head tolerates hammering abuse better than the more slender Linemans.

Klein # D2000-9ST

 

[Finky198]

I think it would help if we knew exactly what you needed to do with them. It almost seems like a good set of Channellock fence pliers may be the direction to go. ..

Fence pliers are one of my favorites one of the few really functional multi tools

 

[defektes]

Klein like mentioned, the regular 9s are the way to go. They are robust.

 

[sberry]

Klein 9, I like those rod buster ones but while there may be better specific task units its hard to beat the 9's ands 440 Channelocks.