"Knockoff" Pro Press / Press tools and tooling?

[danski0224]

If anyone has priced out press tools and tooling, especially from Big Red, it is crazy stupid expensive.

Unfortunately, it seems that some of the manufacturers in the residential HVAC equipment industry are moving towards equipment/component connections that are set up for press tooling.

The condenser service valves are no longer flared for a braze connection, which can be addressed with a hydraulic swaging tool. Unfortunately, it also appears that the service valves are lower quality and not speced for brazing. Despite using the same processes that have worked for me for years (Wet Rag product, or Cool Gel), the service valves did not seal when closed for a later repair of a manufacturing issue. Others have reported issues with getting 15% silver-phosphorus braze rod to flow properly.

Has anyone used the non-branded press tools and tooling?

It is a pretty compelling alternative, because the knockoffs are like 25% of the cost of Milwaukee. But there is the fear of using a possible lesser product, resulting in issues.

 

[colintrax]

I picked up the Vevor hydraulic (manual no battery) propress and Im happy with it. Geniue Viega connectors havent been leaking.

Id probably drop the coin on the name brand stuff if you're a pro as those get calibrated but I'm just doing plumbing around my house.

 

[Nobody-named-Olli]

Getting in today will be cheaper than tomorrow. As a pro, get the name brand tooling. Even if for no other reason than peace of mind. You get exactly one chance with the press fittings, you can’t re-press or anything. If it goes awry, it needs to come out. The day will come when your situation calls for some awkward position/access, take a good look at what the different brands offer in terms of accessibility. After the ballpark of 30k pressings tools need re-calibration.

The tool/press itself and the dies/tooling are nothing special at the end of the day. And I’m sure most “no-name” brands have figured that out. The only real question is how you sleep at night - and given how picky pipe and fitting manufacturers are about it - in case something goes wrong.

As a pro, the no-name brand tool will always be the “weak link” in any future argument to be had.

And also, at the end of the day, the jobs pay for the tool(s). And in terms of pressing, it is the future. (And I feel stupid for writing it down, because this “future” was already pretty much standard 20 years ago, around here. This does not necessarily mean internals of AC units. But plumbing for water, heating … Even gas is pressed nowadays.)


Kind regards,
Olli

 

[nafets47]

I agree with Olli. I do a fare bit of plumbing in spurts. I considered going the no-name pro-press route. But in the end do you want the certainty that it will not leak and ruin things that cannot be ruined or not. I went with Ridgid and couldn't be happier. You can just get a second hand one off eBay in good condition for about 65-75% MSRP and have peace of mind.

 

[zendriver]

For this technology, if I was a professional id buy the professional grade tool

$2000 a lot of money? I just spent almost half bat on replacement smartphone that I know won’t give a payback of a tool like that Milwaukee.

 

[danski0224]

$2000

3.5x that, plus fittings.

 

[todd_fuller]

The real problem for HVAC right now is that there are several standards. Each standard has bespoke fittings, so comparing to plumbing where there is one pressing type is too simplified.

Milwaukee has the lock on most of the versions and if you want to use Streamline fittings because you’re paranoid and want the most crimp and double o-rings, you have to pay the premium.

What version of fitting are available from Chinese vendors?

 

[danski0224]

The real problem for HVAC right now is that there are several standards. Each standard has bespoke fittings, so comparing to plumbing where there is one pressing type is too simplified.

Milwaukee has the lock on most of the versions and if you want to use Streamline fittings because you’re paranoid and want the most crimp and double o-rings, you have to pay the premium.

What version of fitting are available from Chinese vendors?

I will likely go with RLS. The fittings are made in the USA. Unfortunately, the fittings do not seem to come bagged individually. I have concerns about "loose" fittings in inventory and dirt causing a problem. Regular braze fittings just need to be cleaned and they are good to go. Fitting inventory is also astronomically expensive. It would be $3k each to duplicate what I have for HVAC and plumbing fittings set up in bin trays... so there will be less. Kind of a pain because while I can go get plumbing stuff on short notice, the same isn't true of the RLS stuff.

I really do not want to cheap out and get knockoff fittings, and I really don't want knockoff tooling for paying jobs, but the stuff is crazy expensive for what it is- especially imported Milwaukee stuff.

RLS has a branded 6 piece ring jaw set made by Rems which is about $600 less than the Milwaukee tax, and as I understand it, the only feature that Milwaukee has over the Rems set is a "blocking feature" that prevents using the wrong jaws on the ring crimpers. I won't be lending it out, so that's a non-issue for me.

I honestly do not have much faith in the press setup, despite having seen it used at a prior employer (they used Zoom Lock). The prep has to be perfect- and while it may be relatively recent in the USA, I KNOW that a good braze joint will last longer than the equipment.

Equipment changes are forcing my hand on this, and knowing several other competent people that braze HVAC on a regular basis that are having issues with the condenser service valves and normal braze practices that have worked for years without issue. Might be an excuse coming out of flammable refrigerants and not wanting brazing to happen.

As far as plumbing goes (CTS-V), Milwaukee broke up their ring press sets to make the most cash. I don't need the 1.5" and 2" sizes, but that's the only premade kit for the M18 tool. The kit for the M12 tool has the sizes I want, but the jaw that it comes with will NOT work on the M18 tool, and the X4 Milwaukee M18 ring jaw lists for $600 by itself. Buying the pieces by themselves quickly eclipses the kit price.

The press rings for CTS-V and Mega (gas) are the same between M12 and M18 and both use the same jaw (X3 or X4).

If I have the tool, it does not make sense to not buy the rest of the stuff to use it. But the HVAC stuff is the more immediate need in my case.

I will probably search around for better deals on the plumbing tooling. I do not need it right away.

 

[Renegade1LI]

I will likely go with RLS. The fittings are made in the USA. Unfortunately, the fittings do not seem to come bagged individually. I have concerns about "loose" fittings in inventory and dirt causing a problem. Regular braze fittings just need to be cleaned and they are good to go. Fitting inventory is also astronomically expensive. It would be $3k each to duplicate what I have for HVAC and plumbing fittings set up in bin trays... so there will be less. Kind of a pain because while I can go get plumbing stuff on short notice, the same isn't true of the RLS stuff.

I really do not want to cheap out and get knockoff fittings, and I really don't want knockoff tooling for paying jobs, but the stuff is crazy expensive for what it is- especially imported Milwaukee stuff.

RLS has a branded 6 piece ring jaw set made by Rems which is about $600 less than the Milwaukee tax, and as I understand it, the only feature that Milwaukee has over the Rems set is a "blocking feature" that prevents using the wrong jaws on the ring crimpers. I won't be lending it out, so that's a non-issue for me.

I honestly do not have much faith in the press setup, despite having seen it used at a prior employer (they used Zoom Lock). The prep has to be perfect- and while it may be relatively recent in the USA, I KNOW that a good braze joint will last longer than the equipment.

Equipment changes are forcing my hand on this, and knowing several other competent people that braze HVAC on a regular basis that are having issues with the condenser service valves and normal braze practices that have worked for years without issue. Might be an excuse coming out of flammable refrigerants and not wanting brazing to happen.

As far as plumbing goes (CTS-V), Milwaukee broke up their ring press sets to make the most cash. I don't need the 1.5" and 2" sizes, but that's the only premade kit for the M18 tool. The kit for the M12 tool has the sizes I want, but the jaw that it comes with will NOT work on the M18 tool, and the X4 Milwaukee M18 ring jaw lists for $600 by itself. Buying the pieces by themselves quickly eclipses the kit price.

The press rings for CTS-V and Mega (gas) are the same between M12 and M18 and both use the same jaw (X3 or X4).

If I have the tool, it does not make sense to not buy the rest of the stuff to use it. But the HVAC stuff is the more immediate need in my case.

I will probably search around for better deals on the plumbing tooling. I do not need it right away.

As a union shop it absolutely saves money and no hot work with fire watch. There's no way I'd go back to soldering or brazing, pp is that good. We use Viega fittings which come with a 50 year warranty, more than the tube.

 

[tak1313]

I bought a Zupper unit with 1/2, 3/4, and 1" heads from American Temu (Amazon), but I'm just DIY and wanted it for a specific project - it was also on sale.

It worked great and the batteries are Makita compatible. Not sure how it would hold up for pro use though, but from what I could gather, Zupper is actually a little known OEM for other brands, including Vevor. I have no definitive proof though.

The brushless unit (the one I got) goes for a little less than $700 and the heads are swappable with big M heads.

 

[Lazy]

Convinced the property management company I work for to purchase a Vevor pro press. We paid $1000ish for the tool with 6 jaws. 1/2 - 2", and 2 batteries.

It's used about once a week. Have used every jaw except the 1.5". We've used blue fin and Viega fittings.

No leaks so far. However, it is cumbersome and heavy.