Ko-Ken Surface Drive vs. Snap-On Surface Drive Sockets

[JHKNVY02]

Team,

I have a pretty deep collection of chrome Ko-Ken sockets in metric, with, Nepros 1/4 and some Icon chrome (SAE) 1/2 sockets.
Impacts are Wright, and shallow Astro Nano low profile with the exception of specialty and those are Ko-Ken.
Full inventory of extensions (Ko-Ken, Stahlwille, and some old Craftsman) and specialty (Ko-Ken).

I've been debating adding some Drive to the 3/8 inventory (metric) and 1/2 (metric) if they're useful / worthwhile.
I'm not looking to make a purchase, for the sake of making a purchase, but I'll be in Japan and the price is significantly less than the USA for Ko-Ken.
Not really dealing (typically) with rusty cars (currently in CA and moving in TX) except for a 1996 Bronco restoration project, which is pretty corroded.

Appreciate the honest feedback if this is a balue added / useful tool in the inventory (premise of the most expensive tool - is the one you need that you don't have). Or, go with Snap-On, or another alternative.

If the above isn’t true, are wasting money in an effort to expand a horde of sockets at the dismay or my wife - I am ready to accept that as I know I have a problem….lol

Cheers,
Jay

 

[mrjaw14]

if I were going to japan I would get as many ko-ken tools as I could carry back with me.

 

[dnschmidt]

Is this a trick question? Koken or Nepros obviously.

 

[KnurledNut]

Surface drive (lobular drive) is typically used in factory assembly with power nut-runners to limit damage to new fasteners. The need for these beyond that intended use is pretty limited. They can be beneficial for painted or soft fasteners, as well as swelled and damaged ones. The geometry allows them to engage quickly with fasteners while the driving tool is already rotating.

I don’t know the specs of the ones you are looking at but be aware these are often non-impact rated even though they may look similar, being high hardness sockets for durability.
Something else to consider is the retention. Many of these use pinned connections and don’t work well with ball retention.

I have several that lived their life in such industrial environments.
USA made Apex is the industry standard and often seen domestically. They have excellent tolerances and are incredibly long lasting, but with a raw industrial finish, which I personally find appealing.
Snap-on are much more rare but very high quality as expected.
Metrinch uses a little different lobular design that works really well but are general use tools and not intended for industrial manufacturing.
I have not used Koken surface drive.
Some companies offer magnetic surface drive nutsetters (in limited sizes) with a quick change shank for impact driver or drill use. I have some and find them to be exceptional for things like painted metal panel screws.
I also have a full set of SAE/MM Grey Pneumatic 1/4 drive impact surface drive sockets that are my general use choice for my 1/4 drive impact wrench and cordless ratchet.

It really depends on individual use as to whether any of these options would be of benefit.
In most cases, I would say its not generally needed tooling.

 

[JHKNVY02]

if I were going to japan I would get as many ko-ken tools as I could carry back with me.

Already done! I’ve spent a lot of time in Japan and pretty loaded out with everything I could reasonably justify or carry.

Is this a trick question? Koken or Nepros obviously.

I’m a solid Ko-Ken Z-Eal/Z-Series ratchet, socket, universal, and extension guy, but KTC Nepros for bits and wrenches though.

They can be beneficial for painted or soft fasteners, as well as swelled and damaged ones. The geometry allows them to engage quickly with fasteners while the driving tool is already rotating.

Intended use would be powder coated aluminum fasteners on my sport bike primarily, or, rounded, swollen, corroded or otherwise out of spec fasteners that I’m not ready to destroy to remove or at least avoiding.

I don’t know the specs of the ones you are looking at but be aware these are often non-impact rated even though they may look similar, being high hardness sockets for durability.

These are chrome (photo / link below) - not impact rated, although that option exists.

https://kokenusa.com/pages/surface-...-EN0O_fFcEH6oEUhb4EdksxYl2zEymTLjrS2vUG9Ly37u

https://www.koken-tool.co.jp/catalog/en

Page 006, 007, 71, and 207 of the Ko-Ken USA catalog

Something else to consider is the retention. Many of these use pinned connections and don’t work well with ball retention.

Excellent! For the Ko-Ken I do not believe that is the case for the chrome sockets.

It really depends on individual use as to whether any of these options would be of benefit.

Honestly, not sure, I appreciate the advice /
Recommendation based on the additional information above.

 

[AEAdam]

I don’t have them and not sure I need them. Might go zeal or Snap on FX before these.

@zendriver mentioned in another thread all the tools one needs to fix stuff efficiently. I’d make sure you have everything else covered before spending more on hex sockets.

Let me know if you need my help spending your money. On my short list is a new heated garage floor, kick *** lighting, additional brake creepers, maybe a guest creeper, a second floor jack (one for each side of the car). I’d like a parts washer (might make my own out of a SS sink).

I’d also like a Snap on KR7100 (coke machine) for electrical parts/tools, spray cans etc

I just have basic snap on sockets and don’t find I need anything special. I also have 0 degree and 15 degree DBE wrenches which get me out of jambs. Every time I grab something out of my wrench drawer I’m amazed by how much more awesome a wrench is than a socket wrench. I waited too long to buy nice wrenches. I suffered along with crapsman raised panels, which were many times unusable.

How are you fixed for wrenches? What does Nepros offer? Digital torque wrenches were another game changer for me.

 

[JHKNVY02]

I don’t have them and not sure I need them. Might go zeal or Snap on FX before these.

I have a very comprehensive collection of Z-Eal / Z-Series sockets, extensions, ratchets, hex/torx/E-Torx bit and standard sockets in metric in 1/4-1/2, except 3/8 and 1/2 SAE because I don’t use it (or at least incredibly rare), with the exception of impacts, and I have the KTC specially sockets in those and the regular, low profile and impact extensions covered by Wright and Astro Pneumatic.

FWIW, there is no Surface Drive in Z-EAL or Z-Series - only flat drive.

@zendriver mentioned in another thread all the tools one needs to fix stuff efficiently. I’d make sure you have everything else covered before spending more on hex sockets.

I’m not purchasing any inhex (hex) sockets. Already covered in 1/4 - 1/2 bit sockets (impact and non-impact), and 5/16 impact bits (hex, PH, S, T) for the Ko-Ken Attack Driver.

How are you fixed for wrenches? What does Nepros offer? Digital torque wrenches were another game changer for me.

Agreed,

Wrenches

On Hand

• Wright Grip 2.0 metric (6-36mm)
• Icon SAE (haven’t used yet) (1/4 - 1”)
• Olsa 120T stubby metric (8-19mm)
• Proto flare nut (line) metric (7-17mm)
• Icon S (10-19mm)
  • Will replace with KTC Nepros
• Icon Offset Double Box Metric Set (10-19mm)
  • Will replace with Wright 12pt Double Offset
• Craftsman Midget / Ignition Sets (SAE/Metric)

Missing / Desire-ments

• Tekton Long Flex Head ratcheting set
• Olsa 120T Ratcheting Flex-Head Set
• KTC Nepros half moon metric set

So I think I’m pretty set on wrenches except the list above, and I’ll wait for a sale on everything, but the KTC, which I can snag in Tokyo.

Torque Wrenches

I have digital, click, and torque adapters in 3/8 and 1/2, but covered on the 3/8 down to 1/4 torque levels. No need for a dedicated 1/4 torque wrench so far, but if I find something amazing I might pick one up in the future.

Hope that helps

 

[Wamsutta]

Surface drive (lobular drive) is typically used in factory assembly with power nut-runners to limit damage to new fasteners. The need for these beyond that intended use is pretty limited.

Correct. They are made to engage the fastener while the socket is spinning first. Apex is the originator of the surface drive.

And when I say Apex, I mean the original Apex when Cooper Tools owned them.