Koken Nut Grip Sockets - Suitable for Daily Use?

[tamaraw]

Aren't they pretty much just for holding the fastener so you can fish it into an awkward location and get it mostly in place before locking it down with a proper socket?

Depends upon the application, they aren't made of paper.

I think their 1/4" drive selection could handle whatever reasonable amount of torque you would expect that size of fastener to take for installation and final torque.

I just probably wouldn't use a 1/2" drive model to break a larger seized fastener or torque lug nuts.

 

[dchawk81]

Depends upon the application, they aren't made of paper.

I think their 1/4" drive selection could handle whatever reasonable amount of torque you would expect that size of fastener to take for installation and final torque.

I just probably wouldn't use a 1/2" drive model to break a larger seized fastener or torque lug nuts.

I don't think I'd use these to "break" anything.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I typically try to install only with my 1/4. Youre talking 70-120 in/lbs usually.

When one has snaked 24" of extension and nutgrip universal socket through the bowels of an engine bay, they temptation to snug it up is high.

 

[Jack_K]

I'm 99.9% sure that I read somewhere what you said about not for use for breaking free and final torque; there is no way both of us imagined that . It may have been a slip of paper in the package, dunno. Or it may have been on the website 2 years ago and not there now. But anyone that thinks these sockets are as strong as a normal Koken socket needs to look at the pictures above. There is a groove that is cut in the OD of the socket for the spring to rest in. I mentioned this in my original post. This reduces the effective OD, especially at the recessed points - where sockets break. This means it's not as strong as a socket that doesn't have the groove cut into it. You shouldn't need a mechanical engineering degree to recognize this. This doesn't mean you can't use it every day, but it does mean that you shouldn't expect it to be as strong as a normal socket, and you shouldn't expect Koken to warranty it if you break it.

I am sure I read it somewhere too, that's why I looked in the catalogue but it isn't there.

 

[demarpaint]

Aren't they pretty much just for holding the fastener so you can fish it into an awkward location and get it mostly in place before locking it down with a proper socket?

That's how I use them. After breaking loose a difficult nut or bolt that might fall or get lost I remove it with one of those sockets. Then when reassembling I get it started with it and finish up with a regular socket.

 

[MarcSeattle]

I just got a 17mm to experiment with using it on lug bolts with wheels that have deep lug holes. Works great. I use a short extension with the Nut-Grip, insert the bolt and thread the first couple of turns. I'm not going to use it to spin down or to torque the fastener of course. I have a sleeved socket for that.

The grip is strong enough for a lug bolt, but just barely. It might not be strong enough for heavier fasteners. OTOH, the smaller sizes look like a real time saver 'cause I hate wasting time looking for little fasteners on the floor. Or wait...did it hit the floor? Maybe it got hung up on something on the way down? Maybe it ran away and hid with the socks that disappear from the dryer? Do I have another M6 cap socket allen in 18mm length in stainless? Why TF was it designed with 18mm length? Is the hardware store still open?

I'm beginning to think these are really inexpensive.

 

[Wamsutta]

Those spring loaded balls keep the nut from falling out correct?

I'd only need that socket if I had to put a nut somewhere that I can't fit with my hand.

 

[Pinemarten]

I have the 3/8 set, I love them! I wish I had an SAE set during my career.

They are for gripping the fastener for the last few turns prior to removal, or the fishing it in for a difficult installation.
Anybody can see they aren't quite as strong as a regular socket. But............the 5 seconds spent changing sockets is more than recovered by the ease of installation/removal not even considering the "oh $#lT drop" time waste.

 

[demarpaint]

I have the 3/8 set, I love them! I wish I had an SAE set during my career.

They are for gripping the fastener for the last few turns prior to removal, or the fishing it in for a difficult installation.
Anybody can see they aren't quite as strong as a regular socket. But............the 5 seconds spent changing sockets is more than recovered by the ease of installation/removal not even considering the "oh $#lT drop" time waste.

I agree. Use the tool in that fashion and it will last a lifetime or more. I like to take care of my stuff. I view these sockets as specialty tools and I grab them when needed. If I have something to remove or start in a tough to access spot where I fear dropping and losing a nut or bolt out they come. If I have to apply a lot of torque or hit the ratchet with the heel of my hand to get something started I use a regular socket and switch off. If something needs to be very tight, I'll start it with these sockets and finish with another. The extra 5 seconds to switch imo saves the tool, and is time well spent.

 

[CR888]

This thread is very much a 1st world problem, but hey the fine details of the latest greatest tools are what we're hear ti discuss. There are several designs in this field of fastener retention type sockets, some brands really hold onto the bolt, others not so much. Some use rubber, plastic or nylon springs others metal in various styles. Look I think Koken does this better than mostly all the other brands, they dont tend to put out untested gimmicks onto the market. I think they do offer rebuild kits too for worn socket sets. Id use them when needed without hesitation but they would not be my primary socket set. Actually after seeing other brands tested as far as how much weight they can actually retain, I dont think Id bother with anything else but the Kokens.

 

[Pinemarten]

This thread is very much a 1st world problem,

Uh.........dropped fasteners aren't a problem world wide? I'd hate to drop a fastener while working on a boat or floatplane. Bolts and nuts are expensive and in short supply in many remote locations in the third world.

I understand most 1st world people can afford Koken nut grip sockets, but the problem they address is a worldwide problem.

 

[merkyworks]

This thread is very much a 1st world problem

I say good chap, whatever do you mean……

 

[MarcSeattle]

...Id use them when needed without hesitation but they would not be my primary socket set.

Good point. I got a chuckle from that. Somebody should take a poll to see if anyone on GJ has only one socket set. I wonder what the average number of 14 mm sockets would be for this crowd...maybe 6?

 

[MarcSeattle]

I suppose someone out there might be wondering how thick the socket walls are. A 17 mm Nut Grip socket measures 23.8 mm.

 

[rancherbill]

Koken warranties them like any other socket. I'd have no qualms with using them daily, but if you are worried, why not call koken and get it from the horse's mouth?

I looked at their site and was very impressed with their products.

I asked about losing a ball or spring problems and they said they sell repair kits.

 

[Samuel D]

I suppose someone out there might be wondering how thick the socket walls are. A 17 mm Nut Grip socket measures 23.8 mm.

For what exact socket style and drive size? I ask because it doesn’t match the specs of anything I found in the Ko-ken catalogue. Not that that is particularly surprising, but now I’m curious which socket you have. You measured with a calliper I suppose?

 

[Pinemarten]

OK, here are some specs of the 3/8" 17mm Koken Nut Grip socket:
1. Wall thickness at "point" of hex .075"
2. Wall thickness at locations of detent ball .123"
3. Outside diameter of socket .922"
4. Outside diameter at groove for retention spring .889"
5. Distance across "points" of hex inside measurement .781"

So that means a .0165" depth groove in the socket walls, and at the thinnest section of the wall, a thickness of .0585".
I measured these with a digital caliper, so the accuracy could be off a thousandth or so.

I would not use a 17mm socket with that wall thickness for heavy torque, much less pound it on a corroded fastener. YMMV.

edited to add.......The Koken catalog states diameter as 23.3mm, I measured at about 23.4mm but I measured in inches since I prefer thinking in thousandths of an inch.

 

[MarcSeattle]

For what exact socket style and drive size? I ask because it doesn’t match the specs of anything I found in the Ko-ken catalogue. Not that that is particularly surprising, but now I’m curious which socket you have. You measured with a calliper I suppose?

Koken 1/2 Drive, 17mm Nut Grip socket, 36mm, length. 23.8 mm diameter measured with a caliper. In that size the socket is a consistent diameter so where to measure doesn't matter.

 

[Samuel D]

edited to add.......The Koken catalog states diameter as 23.3mm, I measured at about 23.4mm

Pretty close. Your other measurements are interesting too, by the way. I’d agree with you that these sockets aren’t for brute work.

Koken 1/2 Drive, 17mm Nut Grip socket, 36mm, length. 23.8 mm diameter measured with a caliper. In that size the socket is a consistent diameter so where to measure doesn't matter.

The Ko-ken catalogue has that socket at 24 mm diameter (although the values for the surrounding sockets show they must have meant 24.0 mm).

So, as you’d expect from a quality brand, the 1/2″-drive sockets are thicker-walled than the 3/8″-drive ones.

 

[CR888]

Uh.........dropped fasteners aren't a problem world wide? I'd hate to drop a fastener while working on a boat or floatplane. Bolts and nuts are expensive and in short supply in many remote locations in the third world.

I understand most 1st world people can afford Koken nut grip sockets, but the problem they address is a worldwide problem.

Agreed. Certainly many have good reason to employ retention style sockets. Too many applications to list. My point about being a first workd problem was referring to the OP who was considering using them as a primary socket. Like many here, I have more than enough sockets in 1/4-3/4 drive sizes. All sorts of Etorx, damaged fastener, hex, ball hex, stubby, mid, long, impact, thin wall, koken extended wheel nut sockets, specialy spark plug sockets. Many of these types one 'could' use as a primary socket but I consider retention type as a specialty socket that one would use when they need that feature.

 

[VolvoRyan]

Selfish-question, no-help, late-comer here:

Do these work OK with flange bolts/nuts? Seems with some styles of retention sockets, they like you to push the nut past the ball bearing. This is obviously not possible with a flange nut.

Thanks!

-Ryan

 

[ronkz650]

Some flange bolts, if the hex drive part is pretty short can be a problem because the bolt won't slide into the socket far enough for the balls to grip the bolt. This seems to mostly be a problem with the small sizes. Don't expect 1/4" size to work at all on small hex screws with a shoulder.

 

[sweet victory]

If ran them daily, I’d just keep duplicates of common sizes. They’re such good value, it won’t cost too much extra.

 

[richfinn]

I have used my Ko-ken nutgrip sockets on a daily basis for a couple of years (they replaced magnetic sockets for me entirely), I also use them on my cordless ratchet a lot.

No issues to report (I flush them out with brake cleaner if they get very grimy)

When the 10mm/13mm eventually wear out (those ones get used almost every job) I can replace them individually for maybe $10-$15 per socket approx.

I have all manner of regular sockets, but why wouldn't you want to use fastener retention all the time?

If I have to spend an extra 10 minutes fishing for dropped nuts & bolts in modern vehicle engine bays on say 10% of cars, it adds up to hours and hours over a year, who cares about spending an extra $20 every couple of years??

Nutgrip is worth it's wait in Gold, pull the trigger now!!!

Ko-ken rules as far as the Socket World is concerned IMHO (the spark plug sockets are also awesome)

 

[Pinemarten]

Selfish-question, no-help, late-comer here:

Do these work OK with flange bolts/nuts? Seems with some styles of retention sockets, they like you to push the nut past the ball bearing. This is obviously not possible with a flange nut.

Thanks!

-Ryan

My 3/8" Koken nut grips just worked well with an M6 flange bolt about 24mm long.