Koken or Williams USA

[zarbat007]

I plan to get a few misc sockets and deciding between Koken and Williams USA.
From what I understand, both are industrial tools and highly recommended.

Which brand would you pick?

 

[javajaws]

The size markings on the Williams are really small IMO...otherwise the sets I got are great quality at a great price.

 

[GrayEngineer]

Between the two brands, I feel that it is a bit of a toss up. I have a fair amount a Snap-on sockets (i.e. Williams USA) as well as a few set of Ko-ken sockets, and they both have their strong points.
Snap-on sockets have a higher polish on the chrome that I prefer. The flank drive broaching is great, and they also partially broach the deep sockets which is the only way to go for me. They have a straightforward lifetime warranty with easy exchanges. Overall they are excellent sockets and have always been considered one of the best.

Ko-ken sockets have a nice finish but it leans a bit towards an industrial type, but is still very well done. Then interior of the sockets also are finished nicely, and better than Snap-on's. The fit of the sockets on fasteners is equal to Snap-on, but the Zeal line has a better fit than Snap-on. The fit of the sockets on the square drive of the ratchet is a bit more snug than Snap-on's, and the Zeal's fit is solid and the best of any sockets I've ever used. Ko-ken does stand behind their products and have a solid warranty, although I'm not sure it is a lifetime. I will say that I've abused my Ko-ken sockets as much as my Snap-on sockets and I've never broken a Ko-ken and have broken a handful of Snap-on's.

If it were me buying them, I'd price them out and if one brand is noticeably more expensive I'd opt for the cheaper one. If they are equal in price, either brand will be excellent. If the Ko-ken Zeal sockets are the ones in question, I would hands down go with the Zeal's over Snap-on/Williams. The Zeal's are the overall highest quality/tolerance sockets I've owned or used and that includes Mac, Matco, Snap-on, Cornwell, Nepros, Tone, Hazet, Gedore, etc.

 

[straightcut]

I recently purchased a set of 6pt. standard depth 3/8" drive Koken metric sockets specifically for the large font size. I'd had it with trying to read small font socket size under a vehicle with my old eyes.

I'm completely happy with the purchase and would buy Koken again.

 

[MetricTech]

Awesome comments. I love my USA brands and would like to continue supporting them but I also love some Japanese and German tool brands. Everything said about the koken zeal series in previous comments I’ve found to be true as well. There’s so many good brands out there it’s hard for me to commit to just one. Especially when you need all sizes metric/sae and all drives.


Metric Tech

 

[shanny19]

I have both, and the answer is YES.
Plenty of positives on both.
Negatives....i’ve had one Williams shed its chrome like a snake, and one with no detents, and Zeal sets skip sizes, or at least did when i bought mine.

 

[turnthewrench 2.0]

Two good ones,... I'd pick Ko-Ken.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Koken will skip sizes if that matter to you. I'm happy with product from both venders. Perhaps buy the willaims set and the koken ZEAL set, and live with the gaps in the zeal? They're usually not common sizes, but I have missed my 1/4 drive 9mm and 15mm before.

 

[Steve_P]

I have the Koken nut holding sockets, williams USA, and SK as my primary chrome sockets; most are Williams. For a general use set I'd pick SK mainly because the size stamping is larger than Williams and my Koken set skips sizes. I bought my Williams when SK was transitioning owners and not producing much

 

[Wamsutta]

Since the Koken sockets are so homely, I'd get the Williams.

Besides that, I can watch the Williams being made on YouTube.

 

[zarbat007]

Thanks for replies everyone.

If it were me buying them, I'd price them out and if one brand is noticeably more expensive I'd opt for the cheaper one. If they are equal in price, either brand will be excellent. If the Ko-ken Zeal sockets are the ones in question, I would hands down go with the Zeal's over Snap-on/Williams. The Zeal's are the overall highest quality/tolerance sockets I've owned or used and that includes Mac, Matco, Snap-on, Cornwell, Nepros, Tone, Hazet, Gedore, etc.

Thank you for your detailed input, I appreciate it.
There is no real price difference between them, Koken has more varieties and shipping from Japan to Canada is actually less than what most North American vendors want to charge.
I'm a fan of the "euro-style" satin finish on Koken. Reminds me of German tools.

Koken will skip sizes if that matter to you. I'm happy with product from both venders. Perhaps buy the willaims set and the koken ZEAL set, and live with the gaps in the zeal? They're usually not common sizes, but I have missed my 1/4 drive 9mm and 15mm before.

I plan to buy a few 3/8 and 1/2 drive 12-point sockets (not available in Zeal line), but everything else will be Zeal: double universals, spark plug socket and a few 6-point metric sockets. Not buying any sets.

I have the Koken nut holding sockets, williams USA, and SK as my primary chrome sockets; most are Williams. For a general use set I'd pick SK mainly because the size stamping is larger than Williams and my Koken set skips sizes. I bought my Williams when SK was transitioning owners and not producing much

I live in Canada and from what I've seen, it would be more sensible for me to get a "BOGO" deal on Snap-on truck and have a more convenient hassle free warranty. If you buy a Snap-on socket set on a good deal, it will actually be cheaper than a comparable SK set.
We have a tool truck coming by every week.

 

[Mr_B]

koken, great design and quality .

 

[GrayEngineer]

Thanks for replies everyone.



Thank you for your detailed input, I appreciate it.
There is no real price difference between them, Koken has more varieties and shipping from Japan to Canada is actually less than what most North American vendors want to charge.
I'm a fan of the "euro-style" satin finish on Koken. Reminds me of German tools.




I plan to buy a few 3/8 and 1/2 drive 12-point sockets (not available in Zeal line), but everything else will be Zeal: double universals, spark plug socket and a few 6-point metric sockets. Not buying any sets.




I live in Canada and from what I've seen, it would be more sensible for me to get a "BOGO" deal on Snap-on truck and have a more convenient hassle free warranty. If you buy a Snap-on socket set on a good deal, it will actually be cheaper than a comparable SK set.
We have a tool truck coming by every week.

Based on your response, I'd recommend the Ko-ken sockets over the Williams. The Ko-ken sockets have the finish that you prefer, and the finish is quite nice. Also, Ko-ken has a larger selection of sockets then any other manufacturer in the world (if my understanding is correct), so you will always be able to acquire the socket that you need. They do skip some sizes in the sets, but outside of the Zeal line you should be able to get nearly every socket size in proper sequence within the drive size that you are needing. One thing to note about the sizes that are skipped, they are sockets that are typically never needed. No one complains when they can't find their 9mm right? By doing this, manufacturers are able to cut the costs of their socket sets and pass the savings to you. Another thing I love about Ko-ken is that they offer several fastener engagement types, their surface drive sockets are excellent and will take fasteners off that most other sockets can't even grip at all.

My current hierarchy of sockets: Ko-ken Zeal, Nepros, Ko-ken, Snap-on. This is what occupies my tool box currently.

Now ratchets, that's another subject......Nepros, Snap-on, Koken Zeal.

 

[zarbat007]

Based on your response, I'd recommend the Ko-ken sockets over the Williams. The Ko-ken sockets have the finish that you prefer, and the finish is quite nice. Also, Ko-ken has a larger selection of sockets then any other manufacturer in the world (if my understanding is correct), so you will always be able to acquire the socket that you need. They do skip some sizes in the sets, but outside of the Zeal line you should be able to get nearly every socket size in proper sequence within the drive size that you are needing. One thing to note about the sizes that are skipped, they are sockets that are typically never needed. No one complains when they can't find their 9mm right? By doing this, manufacturers are able to cut the costs of their socket sets and pass the savings to you. Another thing I love about Ko-ken is that they offer several fastener engagement types, their surface drive sockets are excellent and will take fasteners off that most other sockets can't even grip at all.

My current hierarchy of sockets: Ko-ken Zeal, Nepros, Ko-ken, Snap-on. This is what occupies my tool box currently.

Now ratchets, that's another subject......Nepros, Snap-on, Koken Zeal.

Snap-on ratchets are very nice. I looked into Koken Zeal ratchets and I know everyone says they have low back drag even though they have low tooth counts, but I've got too many Snap-on ratchets... warranty would be hassle free and easier.

You are right, no need for the "unusual" size sockets and the mirror-finish chrome plating like Snap-on (or Nepros) sockets... they drive up the costs. For about 1/3 of the price, Koken sockets are very good value for the money.

 

[Steve_P]

If you can get SO for SK prices, definitely go for SO. In the US, SK on Tooltopia or other sites are ridiculously cheaper than SO list price. Sk chrome is much prettier than US Williams and therefore I assume SO. I believe it's the difference between hexavalent vs trivalent.

 

[giants]

Based on your response, I'd recommend the Ko-ken sockets over the Williams. The Ko-ken sockets have the finish that you prefer, and the finish is quite nice. Also, Ko-ken has a larger selection of sockets then any other manufacturer in the world (if my understanding is correct), so you will always be able to acquire the socket that you need. They do skip some sizes in the sets, but outside of the Zeal line you should be able to get nearly every socket size in proper sequence within the drive size that you are needing. One thing to note about the sizes that are skipped, they are sockets that are typically never needed. No one complains when they can't find their 9mm right? By doing this, manufacturers are able to cut the costs of their socket sets and pass the savings to you. Another thing I love about Ko-ken is that they offer several fastener engagement types, their surface drive sockets are excellent and will take fasteners off that most other sockets can't even grip at all.

My current hierarchy of sockets: Ko-ken Zeal, Nepros, Ko-ken, Snap-on. This is what occupies my tool box currently.

Now ratchets, that's another subject......Nepros, Snap-on, Koken Zeal.

Thanks. I noticed that the Koken Zeal have only 36 teeth on their ratchets. Has that been a problem for you, kinda downgrading from the higher tooth ratchets, so to speaK/

 

[CGarage]

I think Japan is surpassing Germany, Switzerland, and USA in quality of a lot of items these days. I have some Koken and Vessel sockets and they beat SnapOn and Facom and a few German 80s brands I have in terms of finishing. I am not sure on the metallurgy but they look great. Williams is known quality and the Japanese started getting first class with tools within the past 20 years, so less of an established track record in my opinion.

 

[giants]

I think Japan is surpassing Germany, Switzerland, and USA in quality of a lot of items these days. I have some Koken and Vessel sockets and they beat SnapOn and Facom and a few German 80s brands I have in terms of finishing.

Thanks.

Do you find that the Koken sockets fit fasteners better than the SnapOns?

How about durability?

How about the low-tooth Kokens in comparison to SnapOns, especially in tight places?

The only Vessel socket set I found was this one:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009GSBY70/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Anyone have experience with it, particularly with using ratchets on the sockets?

Thanks

 

[CGarage]

I use my tools as a hobbyist so I cannot comment on prolonged durability or metallurgy.
Of note, the Japanese sockets I have only ever seen in Metric sizes (this goes for Vessel, too) so I am not sure if there is an SAE option.

I do not have any Koken ratchets. I have a few Vessel ratcheting drivers and use them because they are 1/4” drive. I am spoiled by my 72 teeth Facom ratchets but I like the strength and durability of the lower tooth count parking meter style ratchets so I think the trick is to pick the ratchet for the application or use a breaker bar and not risk messing up the teeth on a high-end ratchet.

The Snap On ratchets are nice and I have a few from the 1980s with low teeth counts and it is hard to beat the durability and serviceability of these.

As far as fit, commenting on 1/4” drive solely and comparing Metric to Metric, fit has been great. I would say on par with Snap-On provided the fasteners were of quality and I think fit has a lot to do with fastener quality as well. There is a lot of variance today in fastener quality and dimensional tolerances.

 

[CGarage]

The only Vessel socket set I found was this one:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009GSBY70/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Anyone have experience with it, particularly with using ratchets on the sockets?

Thanks

I own that tool and it is great. The sockets are beautiful. Koken has a much wider socket offering but if you are only doing metric 1/4” drive work these are great.

 

[Mr_B]

while owning 1 or 2 koken ratchets not a bad thing they not that great for everyone and too many other good options at all price points .
Sockets and extensions are world class and if make most of best prices can find via amazon etc they pretty affordable .
I've used them for over 3 decades and never broke a socket, had chrome issues on some, most with issue got warranty exchanged .
The half satin finish far nicer in hand over mirror and looks better for longer generally .
Biggest plus with koken is slim sized and great tolerances both ends .

 

[Hyster Gareth]

Both are great choices and will serve you well. Have you thought about taking a look at Gray Tools? Proto is another manufacturer you might want to take a look at.

Whatever you decide I'm sure they will give you a lifetime of service.

 

[BK13]

Sort of an off topic question, but now that Frank isn't carrying KoKen, what is the best source in the US?

 

[giants]

while owning 1 or 2 koken ratchets not a bad thing they not that great for everyone and too many other good options at all price points .
Sockets and extensions are world class and if make most of best prices can find via amazon etc they pretty affordable .
I've used them for over 3 decades and never broke a socket, had chrome issues on some, most with issue got warranty exchanged .
The half satin finish far nicer in hand over mirror and looks better for longer generally .
Biggest plus with koken is slim sized and great tolerances both ends .

Thanks. What's the warranty process with Koken sockets?

 

[mr.lemons]

The only Vessel socket set I found was this one:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009GSBY70/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Anyone have experience with it, particularly with using ratchets on the sockets?

Thanks

I'm sure Vessel sockets are good but if you are interested in trying tools from Japan it's worth noting that Vessel source their ratchets and sockets from Taiwan according to what I've read on here.

 

[Mr_B]

Thanks. What's the warranty process with Koken sockets?

Mine was done by my retailer dealing with Koken directly .
Had a breaker bar credited rather than replaced too .

If importing from Japan via amazon you going be in hands of amazon retailer for short term issues and trying your luck with koken usa beyond that .

I buy just chrome sockets and extensions/adaptors koken and in my professional use I really not concerned on warranty too much considering cost and quality/design features you getting .
I replaced 3 sockets early in use due to chrome flake issues and in 30yrs I not broke one.
I do have some 3/8 shallows that bit rough but that wear and tear from decades of daily abuse and they held up same/better than snapon/mac chromes I have.

 

[Shark Pilot]

Zeal is metric only. Regular "flat drive" are available in metric or SAE 6 & 12 PT shallow or deep. Williams can be tricky because now some are USA and some are Taiwan. Unclear whether they are absolutely identical to SO. Koken are cold forged. I have Zeal and 1/2" metric flat drive and am very impressed with both. Don't have any Williams so I can't give you a comparison.

 

[M6erfan]

Thanks. What's the warranty process with Koken sockets?

If you use the "search" function and type in "Koken Warranty" in 'advanced search keywords' several threads come up. Good reading.

Or, you could contact KokenUSA directly and ask them. You could ask the same question to FranksTools. If you do please update us on what they tell you.

 

[Qualitytools]

I have the KOKEN ZEAL in 3/8 both regular and deep socket sets and they are great!

 

[giants]

I have the KOKEN ZEAL in 3/8 both regular and deep socket sets and they are great!

Thanks. How long have you had them? Any problems at all?