L14-30 to L5-30?

[adblink]

Just bought a Reliance #3006HDK 30 Amp 250-Volt Transfer Switch Kit

The included power cord to go from the generator to the inlet box has L14-30 ends on it. My generator being only 120v 4500watts has a L5-30 female.

My question is can I cut off the male end of the L14-30, snip and tape off one of the two hot wires and put on an L5-30.

I realize an L14 has 3 conductors in it and L5 only has 2, so my followup question is when wiring the transfer switch, is it ok to pigtail the one hot wire coming from the inlet box to the black and red wire inside the transfer switch? Essentially powering the whole transfer switch with one phase of 110v? (no 220v circuits are being routed through the transfer switch).

Thanks for any help.

 

[Mustang51js]

You can do that but it's a little more involved,you would need to move breakers around so all the circuits on transfer switch are on the same phase. Another issue is you may overload the generator depending on what you put on the transfer switch. I think it's much easier to sell the gen you have now and get something like a 5k gen with the 30 amp plug on it. You can find them on craigslist for under $500. Then you don't have to rewire anything and makes it a bit safer ,also less likely to trip the breaker on the gen.

 

[adblink]

This generator is practically brand new, bought it last year and have only run it a couple of times so don't really want to sell it and buy a used one. I did make sure that what I plan on running off the gen is going to be well below the capacity so in that instance I should be ok.

So if I were to tie the one hot to both black and red in the transfer switch....then all the circuits I plan on running have to be on the same "side" (phase) in the main panel.

Can I just move a couple circuits from one side of the bus to the other? How important is a perfectly balanced panel?

the transfer switch is only a 6-circuit model, so I would only be exchanging 3 circuits max.

 

[Mustang51js]

This generator is practically brand new, bought it last year and have only run it a couple of times so don't really want to sell it and buy a used one. I did make sure that what I plan on running off the gen is going to be well below the capacity so in that instance I should be ok.

So if I were to tie the one hot to both black and red in the transfer switch....then all the circuits I plan on running have to be on the same "side" (phase) in the main panel.

Can I just move a couple circuits from one side of the bus to the other? How important is a perfectly balanced panel?

the transfer switch is only a 6-circuit model, so I would only be exchanging 3 circuits max.

Your better off rigging up a cord that uses the existing plugs so you don't have to change anything. And then if you get a different gen in the future your still good. The reason you would need to make sure the breakers are on the same phase if you do what you wanted is because that transfer switch still uses breakers in your main panel, so you would have to move them to every other breaker just incase someone turns breakers in normal position while your plugged in. But I would get a 10/4 rubber cord, female 30 amp twist lock to fit in your transfer switch and then a male plug for whatever you gen takes, then on that side just put both the hots on the one screw. So it's doing what you want but you won't have to remove plugs and rewire stuff

 

[nehog]

I have worked on those breaker panels, and I do not think it would be a good idea to modify it, but you could. If you have no 240 volt loads, connect both hots together to the single (120 V) hot from the generator.

 

[nehog]

...
My question is can I cut off the male end of the L14-30, snip and tape off one of the two hot wires and put on an L5-30.
...

You can connect them together to get the effect you need.

 

[Norcal]

Since a single phase panel is being discussed, there is only one phase but there are two legs of 120/240V.

 

[dogdog]

.... not every one likes that pig tail ideas for some reasons.... This topic have been on before.... except the other guy have a better generator than you. Inverter generators.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=246190&highlight=generator

 

[Mustang51js]

Since a single phase panel is being discussed, there is only one phase but there are two legs of 120/240V.

Isn't there still two phases in a single phase,just like 3 phases in a 3 phase,I always assumed the called it single phase because it sounds better than double phase. You could say that 3 phase has 3 legs also. Lol

 

[dogdog]

Isn't there still two phases in a single phase,just like 3 phases in a 3 phase,I always assumed the called it single phase because it sounds better than double phase. You could say that 3 phase has 3 legs also. Lol

Don't think it goes like that.

 

[adblink]

Your better off rigging up a cord that uses the existing plugs so you don't have to change anything. And then if you get a different gen in the future your still good. The reason you would need to make sure the breakers are on the same phase if you do what you wanted is because that transfer switch still uses breakers in your main panel, so you would have to move them to every other breaker just incase someone turns breakers in normal position while your plugged in. But I would get a 10/4 rubber cord, female 30 amp twist lock to fit in your transfer switch and then a male plug for whatever you gen takes, then on that side just put both the hots on the one screw. So it's doing what you want but you won't have to remove plugs and rewire stuff

I totally agree with you guys about getting a cord like this would accomplish the same thing, just means more parts and more money but the original cable remains intact.

I'm still having difficulties understand why the breakers need to be on the same side/leg in the main panel. When wired through the transfer switch and using a generator, we are not using the breaker in the main panel anymore. When running on the normal utility power, the hot from the main panel breaker takes a detour through the transfer switch in utility setting and back to the house wiring like normal.

Utility config
Main Panel breaker ----------TransferSwitch---------PigTail w/ House Wiring

Generator config
Generator (w/ 30a breaker) -------TransferSwitch (w/ 15a breaker) -----Pigtail w/ House Wiring

So the house breaker always remains on and if someone were to throw the 3 position switches on the transfer switch they would be isolating the utility from the generator again.

Installation Manual. On page 7 shows how to wire 120v circuits.

 

[JoeFin]

So I take it you've checked to make sure NONE of the circuits you'll be powering up in the house/garage are "Mulitwire" circuits where 2 opposing phase hots (single phase power) are sharing the neutral

In that case you would be overloading the neutral and risking setting fire to your place

 

[adblink]

No I haven't. How do you confirm that? Is that a common thing? The house is 9 years old-ish if that makes a difference.

So is the concern about multiwire circuits stem from me wanting to power both legs of the transfer switch with one 120v feed from the generator? So essentially everyone who bought this product would have the same concerns?

Or is it running a transfer switch in general? Which means it would be a concern for anyone wanting to run a transfer switch right?

Lets say I were to of bought the 10 circuit model of the transfer switch, and indeed had a 220v generator. Wouldn't running 5 circuits off of half that transfer switch and half of that 220v be the exact same as what I'm trying to do now? (except I'd be running 6 not 5).

This is just a huge shot in the dark, if a multiwire circuit is 2 hots sharing one neutral then to check for that couldn't I shut off all breakers on one leg in the panel and then measure individually each neutral coming back from each hot that I just shut off? Each one should have zero volts and if one has any voltage it would be coming from the second leg correct?

 

[Mustang51js]

You don't have to actually have them on separate legs, but I recommended them on same just in case one of the toggle switches goes bad and you get 120 to 120. On the same leg it wouldn't short out. Doing it with the cord it should only cost you about $75 depending on length of cord.

 

[JoeFin]

No I haven't. How do you confirm that? Is that a common thing? The house is 9 years old-ish if that makes a difference.

You'll have a "Black - Red - White" wire within the same romex jacket.

So is the concern about multiwire circuits stem from me wanting to power both legs of the transfer switch with one 120v feed from the generator?

Yes

So essentially everyone who bought this product would have the same concerns?

Not everyone who buys that transfer switch wanting to power it with 120v. Most people will use 240/120 which is it's intended purpose

But More Importantly

From the line of questioning it has become brutally apparent to everyone here this is not a job you should try yourself and the procurement of a qualified professional would be HIGHLY recommended

 

[Elmo4895]

That transfer switch is made to use a 240 / 120 generator. You should not try to hook it up yourself without knowing what you are doing. Save yourself some grief!

 

[adblink]

guys please cut me some slack here.....please. Anyone who is buying this product (not the transfer switch, click the link) ----> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0050PQ0UO/?tag=atomicindus08-20 or making their own similar cord....is doing exactly the same thing I am doing except I was asking about doing it in the transfer switch instead of at the cord to save some parts. Read their reviews, if your gen has L5-30 only its not 220. Not a single one of those people asked or even cared if that was ok to do or if there is anything they should check before hand. It's not that I'm refusing to return it and get a 120v model, I can't return this one. I'm stuck with it so I'm trying to make this work.

Please don't chastise me for trying to make an effort to make it safe where people who just make a cord and plug and go don't give a ****, so please have some patience and give me hand and at least give me some credit for even caring in the first place. I refuse to believe there isn't a safe way of making this work without some little extra time and work.

So back to the problem....

Again is there no way I can check if any of the selected circuits I want to power are sharing a neutral wire or not? Maybe the issue doesn't even exist and this is all for not. But like I said I want to take the time to figure it out instead of just plugging it in and crossing my fingers like so many other people.

If I bought the 10 circuit model transfer switch, and had a 220v gen......the same 5 circuits that I want to power now would still be powered by one hot wire from the generator in that application except it would only be half the transfer switch. It would be wired identically in the mail panel and the house wiring wouldn't change. Why is that scenario different then the one I am proposing now?

 

[Mustang51js]

It will work the way you want to do it but you also need to think about if something happens. What do you think your insurance company would say if there was a fire and they found the transfer switch was tampered with and wires swapped around. They would deny you any coverage and say it's your fault. That link you had for the cord is only $50 and would cover you since the insurance co would go after the transfer switch maker or the cord maker. I would never wish a fire or anything on anyone but it's something you need to think about when tampering with stuff, it may not even be the reason a fire starts but they could still try and use that. I would think the money you paid for the outlets you want to install would be same price or more as the cord,can you return them. It's all really a gamble but your decision

 

[adblink]

I really appreciate your response. Your absolutely right and I'm not that stubborn where I want to make this work that badly that I will risk a fire and my family's safety to make it work. That's the whole reason why I'm pestering everyone about this. If there is honestly not a single way to make this work safely, if I'm screwed then I'm screwed. But I don't want to throw the towel in till I'm 100% certain and I've done everything I can. Like everything in life its easier to say it won't work and give up then spend the time and figure it out and find a solution. That's what I am attempting to do here with hopefully some help.

 

[Mustang51js]

The easiest and safest way is that cord that you put the link to, it's made to do what you want just will cost you an extra $50. You won't have to mess with anything and just wire up the transfer switch like normal,that's the only reason I was pushing it. And then say next year you get a good deal on a different gen with a 30 amp twist lock your all set already and don't have to change anything on transfer switch.

 

[adblink]

Just incase anyone finds this thread looking for similar answers about multi branch circuits. This PDF is fantastic at explaining the risks directly associated with running a 120v generator. I wish I found it earlier, would have saved a lot of the questions.

http://www.tekrispower.com/pdfs/xantrex/Multi-Branch Circuit Wiring Issues.pdf

 

[pentavolvo]

I wired a cord specifically for it and have had zero issues

 

[fun2drive]

First of all what generator do you have 4500 watts?
I think from your post you have a two winding generator which means each winding produces 120VAC.

There is no reason not to use the Reliance switch as intended. You can run one winding to three circuits the other to the other three. As long as you are not combining the two windings you can use the full potential of the generator.

Trying to run one winding for your Reliance Transfer switch is the fast way to burn that winding out. It is NOT designed to run at 100% load and 80% load is a stretch so if you do this use the load meters to keep your winding below that. Given you now have a 2250watt generator max at 100% load you need to keep it below that around 75% to assure your generator will not melt the winding.

Also the PDF you mentioned is excellent.

You are planning to use a portable power device to power your residence. That means unless you removed the jumper in the generator panel or at the bell of the generator you have what is known as a "bonded neutral". NEC Article 250 will tell you that you need to remove the neutral to ground bond on the generator which is known as a "floating neutral".
http://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarchive/GB-HTML/HTML/NECArticle250Sections250.20-250.34~20020124.htm

All this really means and the PDF mentions it is that you carry the two windings (hot leads), neutral and ground through to the breaker panel in your house just using the Reliance box to pass those through. You connect the neutral to your neutral in the house panel box the ground from your generator is is grounded to the panel box itself. The power windings are connected to your 3 circuits per winding and those are connected to whatever breaker you plan to use (Reliance installation video is excellent in showing how to do a 6 circuit install).

For years it was acceptable to use a bonded neutral at the generator but the problem arises when the neutral between the generator and the residential breaker box is not connected. You then have a hot ground. Again this has been done for years but do yourself a favor and disconnect it and placard the generator as such "floating neutral".

To use it for portable power again all you need is the L14-30 male plug with the neutral and ground connected. That will return the generator to portable use "bonded neutral". Or you can use one of your duplex plugs and do the same thing.

I am confused as to why you would not use both 120 windings to power 6 circuits all staying at 120. The only way you get 240 is to tie two of the circuits from the Reliance box to a breaker that uses 240 like your AC, stove or electric dryer.

Use your VOM to check the continuity of the neutral and ground connection at the generator once you have disconnected the jumper be it at the generator panel or the bell of the generator. It will read 0 ohms or no resistance when connected and most likely OL or out of range when they are disconnected. That is what you want.

I am a EE by trade and have used Reliance boxes and interlock panels as well to provide emergency power and would be happy to help you get full use out of your generator.

Be advised that your insurance for the house can be voided if you don't do this right given it can be considered an unsafe condition.

Reliance makes some great equipment as do others like Generac. Why not use your generator (it was 4500 watts right?) to its full potential.

If you are not comfortable modifying the panel and doing this wiring get some help from a licensed electrician that knows how to wire portable generators for home power. This isn't something most electricians do often and be sure to ask them if they have experience. You might only pay a small amount for the minimum labor he or she would charge but it would be good peace of mind. Also not sure in your area if this has to be inspected by a local authority or not. Some locals do some don't.

Key feature of the Reliance system which I like over interlock panels is that you don't need to throw the main breaker killing external power and not knowing when the power comes back on. It allows you to leave a light on in the house so when utility does come back on you have an indication of that and can then shut your generator down once switching the Reliance panel back to utility feed...

Hope this helps some and happy to help you if you need it...