Land ISSUES - Lawyers advise

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

OK here is the response I received via email from the lawyer.

Should I ask the farmer what it would take to buy out the lease? I talked to him this morning at the gas station but didn't at that point, just friendly neighborly conversation.

The response below makes it sound like the only "solution" they plan on doing is writing me a check on what the land is worth for the 21 years left on the lease. Which I am not OK with.

It all sounds like legal mumble jumble to me.... I don't see a clear answer in it.

-----------------------------------

I have received and reviewed your email of 07/08/2008 along with its attached letter of 07/08/2008 addressed to me. Accept this email as this Company’s official acceptance of your claim as tendered. Your claim is covered by the terms of your 2006 Owners Policy and accordingly this Company accepts your claim regarding the missed 30 year lease of part of the insured premises to your neighbor.



You seem to want the lease “bought out” but that all depends upon whether or not the neighbor wants to do so. We certainly cannot force him to do so nor can this Company be forced to pay whatever amount the neighbor decides to he wants without any reference to the true value of the lease, etc.



YOU, of course, can make your own approach to your neighbor and find out if he is even interested in being “bought out” by you. You cannot however approach the neighbor and negotiate this matter claiming to represent this Company or to negotiate on our behalf; the neighbor must know that it is YOU who is approaching him over “buying him out” and you are not to even mention this Company when you approach the neighbor on your own behalf.



By all means let me know the outcome one way or another. In the meantime, I have asked out Michigan office to find and retain a Surveyor to do staked survey of the Insured premises as well as to depicted on said survey the legal description contained in the lease so that the extent of the leased property verses the insured property “as a whole” will be readily apparent. It is necessary that this survey be done as the appraiser will need a copy of it so that he/she will know the amount

of the insured land that the Lease affects and be able to determine the diminution in the value of the insured land verses the policy amount caused by the existence of the Lease

 

[jay50]

Appreciated future value of the land, 21 years from now?

 

[Junkman]

No mumbo jumbo......... just straight lawyer talk. He is telling you that it is OK for you to ask the neighbor how much he would want to relinquish the lease on your land. Then, when you get this amount verbally settled with him, you tell the neighbor that you will have to sleep on it for a few days. You report back to the insurance company the amount that the neighbor wants, and they will either write you a check to buy him out, or they will decide what to do next. Only problem with this is if the neighbor changes his mind and decides he wants more. What they are doing is to have you and he settle on a value, and they will pay that value to you. I see this as a problem if the neighbor doesn't accept the money that he verbally agreed to, and the insurance company pays you that amount. Now, you have the money, but not the land. I suggest that you have your attorney deal with the neighbor, and you don't get involved in the discussion at all. If you get involved with the neighbor in a verbal discussion, it might be construed to be a verbal contract. This can't happen when a third party is in negotiation on your behalf. That is why lawyers get the big bucks... they know how to negotiate in the clients best interest.

 

[jay50]

No mumbo jumbo......... just straight lawyer talk. He is telling you that it is OK for you to ask the neighbor how much he would want to relinquish the lease on your land. Then, when you get this amount verbally settled with him, you tell the neighbor that you will have to sleep on it for a few days. You report back to the insurance company the amount that the neighbor wants, and they will either write you a check to buy him out, or they will decide what to do next. Only problem with this is if the neighbor changes his mind and decides he wants more. What they are doing is to have you and he settle on a value, and they will pay that value to you. I see this as a problem if the neighbor doesn't accept the money that he verbally agreed to, and the insurance company pays you that amount. Now, you have the money, but not the land. I suggest that you have your attorney deal with the neighbor, and you don't get involved in the discussion at all. If you get involved with the neighbor in a verbal discussion, it might be construed to be a verbal contract. This can't happen when a third party is in negotiation on your behalf. That is why lawyers get the big bucks... they know how to negotiate in the clients best interest.

Good idea to get the lawyer involved on your behalf. Let the Title company know you expect them to pay your lawyer expenses; after all, it was their failure to do their job properly that has caused all your troubles.

BTW, if the neighbor even gets the slightest idea that the title company is going to be writing the check, he might get big $s (signs) in the place where his eyes use to be....

 

[sam 8]

Junkman is correct; it would be wise to have your attorney speak to the neighbor for you; going in with the understanding that this is not to become an adversarial deal. Don't be surprised if your attorney wants you along, to make a low-pressure intro, then you say something to the effect that you want to make sure,"everyone gets a sqaure deal", and let your attorney do the talking from there.
If you and your lawyer approach the guy from a hardass line, with a formal letter on legal stationery, it is going to lead to the farmer escalating the situation as well, and he'll get an attorney, and the price of getting what you want is gonna go up.
The verbal contract issue is real, be careful what you say and how you say it.
I can't read the vibe from out here, but a go-between taking the pressure off both of you might be another way to go. If that is the choice, I'd find a way to let the farmer know your intent, and that you hold him harmless, he did nothing wrong, but you want to find a way to get your land back under your control without causing him a bunch of misery or financial loss. Again, choose the words carefully, the attorney may even want you to try this. If he does, write out a scripted statement for his approval, then have your go-between commit it to memory.
Starting out in a nice guy mode can either succeed or fail, and there is nothing to loss and much to gain if you can get it done that way.
He holds the cards, and he knows it. Starting out from an adversarial point is only gonna cost ya more.
Good luck

If it is any help, I dealt with dozens of these types of deals over my career as a cop. You have one huge advantage going in; you and your neighbor ain't already fueding like the Hatfields and the McCoys; there is no bad blood between you, and since your gonna be neighbors, you want to keep it that way.

 

[Jaguar Fan]

Good idea to get the lawyer involved on your behalf. Let the Title company know you expect them to pay your lawyer expenses; after all, it was their failure to do their job properly that has caused all your troubles.

BTW, if the neighbor even gets the slightest idea that the title company is going to be writing the check, he might get big $s (signs) in the place where his eyes use to be....

Just guessing here... but the title company's approach is probably going to be something like:

• the value of the title insurance is $X (the purchase price of the land).
• once we survey the property, then let's say that 30% of the total land has been leased to the neighbor
• so... we will pay up to 30% of X.
• If the farmer wants, say, an extra $50K to be bought out of the lease, that is irrelevant. We pay up to 30% of X.
• No, we don't pay for your attorney -- that's on your nickel. Maybe you'll be lucky and the cost of your attorney plus any settlement value for the neighbor will fall within 30% of X. If it goes over, that's your problem

I hope it doesn't end up this way, but from the description of things (e.g., the insurance company telling the insured to go negotiate rather than the insurance company doing the negotiating) it sure looks like it.

I personally disagree with the idea of having an attorney approach the neighbor. I think it is better done between the two neighbors first to see if he will even entertain a buyout. He might not. He might, for example, say "I bought all this farm equipment with the expectation of using it for the next 20 years... "


just my 2 cents

 

[Brad54]

The title company has admitted it's their screw-up, in writing, via e-mail. Print that and give it to your attorney to hang onto. Print another copy and put it in a safe deposit box. I'm not kidding.
Then call them up and tell them "Fantastic. You've screwed up, you've admitted it. Now here's what we're going to do: YOU are going to contact my neighbor and buy him out. If that does not work, you will buy me out, for what I have invested in my 6 acre slice of heaven, or fair market value, whichever is higher. I would not have bought this property had I known this lien was attached to it. That's why we hired you. Had you done your job properly, I would have passed on this piece of property and found another. I am not interested in owning a 4 acre lot.
If you do not reach a conclusion at your expense with my neighbor, or agree to buy me out, I will sue you. And I have documentation from you stating this entire situation is your fault."

Stay friends with the neighbor by all means. Play hardball with the company that put you in this situation. THEY are responsible, and they have admitted it. From that point forward, anything--ANYTHING--you do can shift any fault back to you.

-Brad

 

[rancherbill]

The Insurance Company's letter as just a simple statement that you are not authorized to speak for them. You are not a negotiating agent for the company.

I am sure there are rules, precedents etc. that govern how this will be eventually settled in court. They do not want you to "commit" the company to a higher settlement figure than the court will. If you can come up with a lower figure they will, of course, go for that number.

I would advise you to talk to the neighbor AFTER you have gotten some advice from your lawyer. Talking with the neighbor is good - you're going to have to live here after this mess. You don't want to "give away things" or weaken your position accidentally through lack of knowledge of the law during your talk.

 

[tdkkart]

Accept this email as this Company’s official acceptance of your claim as tendered. Your claim is covered by the terms of your 2006 Owners Policy and accordingly this Company accepts your claim regarding the missed 30 year lease of part of the insured premises to your neighbor.

YOU, of course, can make your own approach to your neighbor and find out if he is even interested in being “bought out” by you. You cannot however approach the neighbor and negotiate this matter claiming to represent this Company or to negotiate on our behalf; the neighbor must know that it is YOU who is approaching him over “buying him out” and you are not to even mention this Company when you approach the neighbor on your own behalf.

The above statement says that the insurance company admits that they screwed up, and it's their responsibility, therfore they will pay your claim.

The part that is bogus is that they are wanting you to do the leg work and negotiating to fix their problem. They want you to attempt to buy out the lease without mentioning that there is an insurance company involved. This is not acceptable. What they are hoping is that the neighbor will be more likely to settle for less if he does not know there is bog money behind the buyout.
Phooey on that, they screwed up, they need to fix it whatever the cost, INCLUDING your legal expenses.

Take the letter to your lawyer and let them handle it from here on out.
Let the neighbor know exactly what is going on so that they know that it is not you who is behind the negotiations. Above all you want to keep things civil between you and the neighbor.

 

[Old Moparz]

Since the title company admitted the screw up, which was obvious from the very beginning, they should definitely be the ones that have to do all the leg work & cover all the expenses. Of course in this day & age we have so many legal loop holes & lawyers to find them, the only safe way for you to play now, is to have your own lawyer. You'll still be doing some leg work yourself, but mostly to simply make sure that your own interests are protected. By that I mean, by the end of the day everyone else involved washes their hands of the problem because it's "not their problem" technically, it's yours.

I had a problem with the title insurance insurance company being incompetent when I bought my house. We had 90 days to close to keep the lock in rate, but 2 days before the closing my lawyer called me to tell me that the title insurance company said that since there was a private road on my property, they couldn't insure my property. There was no road, the ***** who physically inspected the property went to the wrong house. When I told him I would meet him there to straighten it out, he said no, he was busy. My lawyer finally pressured him to meet me because we had only 2 days to clear this up.

I had to take a day off from work to do all this because the house was an hour away & out of state. Even though the title insurance company screwed up, they still didn't care & refused to resolve it over the phone or even meet with me, until my lawyer spoke to them. It would have been me that lost the lower lock in rate on my mortgage at the time, not the title insurance company. It ***** that we all have to become experts ourselves, or be the babysitter of a so called "professional" that we expect to provide a service we paid for. I think the only thing you can really do is remain friendly with your neighbor & stay involved with the problem by talking to your lawyer on a regular basis.

Good luck once again.

 

[Coach James]

Hey Old Moparz,
I see you live in Newburgh. Are the Orange County guys really the idols of the community like tv makes them out to be?

As to the land issue. I would not do anything without a lawyer advising me every step of the way. This is going to have a significant effect on the rest of your life and I wouldn't take a chance on not dotting an I or crossing a T.

Coach

 

[kvom]

One approach would be to ask the farmer to buy out the lease, but not tell the titel co. Let them do the survey and propose you a figure. If it's greater than what the farmer wants take it and keep the difference. Otherwise you could proceed from there.

 

[Old Moparz]

Hey Old Moparz,
I see you live in Newburgh. Are the Orange County guys really the idols of the community like tv makes them out to be?
Coach

Hey there,

I haven't met them personally, but my boss's nephew knows them. I did go in the new shop they opened because I was there anyway for a car cruise they started. (Nice store, but I can't afford anything in it.) He said what you see on TV is how they really are. The company I work for does site construction, so when we did some work at a school about 10 years ago, the Orange County boys built some handrails for us on the exterior staircases. That was before they became famous, so I kind of doubt they'd make any handrails now that aren't chrome or painted with flames on them.

OC Chooper Clan Accused of Bankruptcy Fraud

Personally, I have no idea whether they're stand up citizens, but the local paper did a story last year that didn't quite show them as a bunch of nice guys.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

One approach would be to ask the farmer to buy out the lease, but not tell the titel co. Let them do the survey and propose you a figure. If it's greater than what the farmer wants take it and keep the difference. Otherwise you could proceed from there.

This is the route that I have been leaning. I have talked to the neighbor several times since I found out about the lease, about other things just as neighborly conversation. I want to keep this civil and if I can do it and put a little $ in my pocket for my troubles why not.

I'll talk with the neighbor / farmer this weekend and get a figure to hold onto. I would think he would not want more than the full value of the lease or $4500, but I won't know until I talk to him. I'm not going to make this easy for the title company, it's their screw up if they did the job right in the first place they would of made their money on my insurance policy that never had to be utilized. Now they will have to pay for their mistakes and not doing their job.

 

[rancherbill]

....and if I can do it and put a little $ in my pocket for my troubles why not.

My guess is that putting money in your pocket is illegal. The purpose of insurances is to cover your damages/losses, not to "profit". The Insurance companies "write" the laws that Government passes. I think you might be very close to committing insurance fraud.

Call your lawyer again. He is making a claim for various things including his time etc. Your time, expenses and hassles are a reimbursable expense. You can realistically "bill" for your time on this forum, lawyer meetings etc. If this mess had come up you would not have spent this time. Even if you did this on your "free time" you have lost the value of your free time.

USE your lawyer to get you the most - don't you try. The lawyer will happily work to get the most. It runs up his bill to the other insurance company.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

I don't know how it would be insurance fraud if the only way the insurance company will settle is to pay me based on the lands value for the remainder of the lease. If I can buy the lease out for less than that bonus.

It is their decision to handle it this way not mine.

I will be composing another letter to the Insurance company's lawyer today in response to his letter last week.

I see it as their problem to completely rectify not to hand me some money and make it my problem to solve.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

OK here is my response to the lawyers letter on the 14th.
______________________________

Per your email dated July 14th;

You have suggested that I settle on a number with the neighbor to buy out the lease. While I have not had this conversation with them, I am of the opinion that this is Fidelity National Title’s responsibility to resolve.

If the lease was found when the title search was done it would have been handled during the closing of the property. Just as any other lean would have been, settled by the title company.

If you still request that I do this leg work for you, it will all be done through my lawyer and his expenses will be paid as part of the settlement with Fidelity National Title.

 

[Old Moparz]

OK here is my response to the lawyers letter on the 14th.
______________________________

Per your email dated July 14th;

You have suggested that I settle on a number with the neighbor to buy out the lease. While I have not had this conversation with them, I am of the opinion that this is Fidelity National Title’s responsibility to resolve.

If the lease was found when the title search was done it would have been handled during the closing of the property. Just as any other lean would have been, settled by the title company.

If you still request that I do this leg work for you, it will all be done through my lawyer and his expenses will be paid as part of the settlement with Fidelity National Title.

You can't be any clearer than that.

I have a feeling that they will wake up after reading it & do it themselves since they'll need to have their own lawyers review what your lawyer does anyway, & it'll cost them two to three times more.

(Just a thought, correct the word lean to lien before you send it.)

 

[Bevis]

I'm going through something like this over some land I bought...Found out my fence had been cut on the back 10 acres. Title company missed the lease from PO, and he failed to mention it during sale. Title company & PO jerked me around for two weeks, then I turned it over to both of my attorneys. I was called this morning from the attorneys office and told we have a meeting to finally close this deal thursday...title company & po are paying big time.
So good luck in your fight.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Thanks for the catch on the spelling error. I have made the correction on the hard copy being mailed via certified mail this afternoon.

Basically it boils down to this, I'm not going to do their job for them.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Email response from Title Company's Lawyer
__________________________________

Being right next door to the party who has this Lease, it only made sense to me that you find out if he would sell this leased portion of

your land back to you at all. While your policy does impose a duty of cooperation from the Insured, (Condition # 6) from the tone of your

below letter, I see you are not inclined to approach your neighbor to find out if he is even interested in selling back the lease. It was

your choice and if you choose not to do so, that is okay by me.



I intend to follow the procedure laid out in Condition # 8(a) (ii) of your policy to determine the extent of our liability under our policy.

Towards that end I have asked our Michigan office to get a survey of the property done and, after we get that done, to have an appraiser do an appraisal of the property with a copy of the survey we had done in his possession. The appraisal will be done first as we insured the land--- free and clear of the Lease; the second part of that appraisal will be of the property with the lease in place.

The difference between these two appraisals will be the diminution in value of the property due to the existence of the lease (defect).

You will have to cooperate with both the surveyor and the appraiser in order for them to do their jobs.
______________________________________________

How can they determine what it is worth??? I did not purchase it with the lease, so no matter what it's worth on paper unless the lease is GONE I'm not happy.

 

[89MustangGX]

From his tone, I gather you didn't bow before you spoke to the almightly lawyer and he is now going to punish you for not respecting his superiority. What a jerk.

It sounds to me like this insurance company isn't really all it's cracked up to be. It's not about what it's worth to you, it's only about paper. My non-expert opinion is that they are going to pay a surveyor to try to minimize the amount of land you actually bought, and then pay an appraiser to say your total property is less than you thought and only worth $108,000 and then pay another appraiser to say your total property minus the leased land is worth $107,000 and then give you a check for $1,000 and say their job is done, the lease stands, have a nice day, don't forget to recommend us to all your friends.

I could be wrong. Maybe I'm just being negative and this will all work out peachy?

Adam

 

[W-Cummins]

Well I guess if you like their offer it will be done soon as they get the "facts" together as they see them. If not get ready to get some skin in the game. Your going to have to hire, at least your own appraisals done (if you except their survey findings) if not you will be paying for your own survey too. Then comes the FUN part you can try to convince them your "Facts" are the correct ones. At the min you may be able to convince them of their errors in the facts in your favor, but I bet they will not move unless a law suite is filed, and then even they might not settle out of court, as I assume that they have legal talent on the payroll, or at least on retainer, ready and willing to litigate. More $$$ and time any way you look at it. I think I would go and talk to the farmer to see if he will sell out the lease and if so find an amount. That way you can at least see if the offer they make you will cover it. Good luck.

William...

 

[Junkman]

Most likely, the policy calls for binding arbitration if a dispute as to value is claimed. With binding arbitration, you pay your arbitrator, and they pay theirs. Then you both pay a 3rd party that is agreed to be a neutral arbitrator. Problem is that sometimes finding a neutral arbitrator is a difficult task. I went into this process over 25 years ago, and when all the arbitration was done, the insurance company came back with a settlement that was in line with what the original claim was for. They just wanted to make me jump through the hoops and spend money. This is why he needs to pay an attorney up front to deal with the neighbor, and to also represent him to the insurance company. It is the insurance companies duty to minimize all payouts for claims. You might not like this, but this is the core principle of insurance. The more that they pay, the higher the cost of insurance. Insurance is like any other business. They are in it for the profits. Same as any business owner on these forums.

 

[tdkkart]

If I were you I would discontinue all communication with them directly right now. Take all the information to your lawyer(you do have one do you not??) and let them handle it from here on out. One mis-step on your part, if you haven't already done it, and your case will be toast.

 

[ddawg16]

Ya know...in something like this, the only people that really win are the lawyers.....it is one of the most self serving professions out there....I'm not saying all are bad....but.......

I have been following this with idle curiosity....lot of good info all around.

Personally, I would go chat with the neighbor....ask him how much he wants for that lease...then tack on a fee for you time and give that to the lawyer....see what he says....it could be that cost will be cheaper than the survey and appraisal...or maybe not.

I have found that many a problem can be solved by sitting down...sharing a few beers and getting it all out on the table....If you go the lawyer route, you could potentially get compensated for the loss of the land....and end up not having access to that land for 21 years.

Being nice works a lot more often than acting like a lawyer...

So....write back to that lawyer....say something like:
"Sorry for the perception that my tone led you to believe I was not wanting to corroperate. Please understand my frustration over this whole mess.
I will go talk to the neighbor and see if he is intrested.......blaw blaw blaw"

Then...go have a chat.....

And I want to caution you on getting a lawyer....why? Because...you have a good case....there is no advantage to him for prompt resolution....the longer he can drag it out...the more he makes....self serving. The title company lawyer has already demonstrated that he knows his side of it....what he can do and not do....back him into a corner and he will not do you any favors.

Remember....the art of negotiation is giving up something that is of little value to you but worth a lot to the other person.

We know what the title company lawyer wants...to get off as cheap as possible.

We know what you want....your land.

Find out what the neighbor wants....what is his big plan? And it's obvious he has a big plan....why do you think it took so long for him to say "oh yea, by the way...I have this lease......"

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Well here is what I responded to the lawyer after his BS above.

_________________________________________________________

I am not trying to be difficult, I am in a position that I will not agree to something that is not going to provide me with what I purchased. If I get a figure from the farmer and Fidelity agrees to pay that amount who pays for the paperwork to file with the county to end/break the lease? I will provide any and all assistance required to solve this claim to my satisfaction.

Your letter was in lawyer talk and based on the verbiage you indicated in no way or shape that Fidelity was willing to buy out the lease directly. Thus I am hesitant to provide you with that information, although I don't have it, as the farmer is under no requirement to sell me back the lease.

This can be done easily if we are both working for the same end. At this point I want this lease to be done and gone, I am not sure what Fidelity wants based on your correspondences.

___________________________________________________________

I have talked with a lawyer about my case and he basically told me that he would be wasting my money until it gets to a point where the Title Company is not willing to settle to my satisfaction. At which point he would charge me a $500 dollar retainer to get things started, who knows what the total bill would be.

While things are moving forward I am not certain if they are moving in the right direction. I will talk to the farmer and get a number from him and have it in my pocket for the title company.

I just wish companies would tell you exactly what is going to happen or what they expect. If I could I would of slapped the jerk today when I got his reply.

 

[rancherbill]

I don't know how it would be insurance fraud if the only way the insurance company will settle is to pay me based on the lands value for the remainder of the lease.

It is all in the wording. In your previous post you were "talking to the neighbor" and getting a value to buy out the lease, adding something for yourself and getting a check to buy out the lease. The dollar amount you present to the insurer has to be clearly worded and explained or you might cross the line.

In this post you are talking about the the course of action which is accepting a settlement for lost value. The company appraisers will probably minimize the loss in value on the property.

Talk to your local government and find out what you CANNOT do the new size. For example out building size is determined by acreage, the numbers of horses is limited by available acreage, etc. Get your own appraiser that can present the case of all the things that you wanted to do that are not possible.

 

[Jaguar Fan]

Ya know...in something like this, the only people that really win are the lawyers.....it is one of the most self serving professions out there....I'm not saying all are bad....but.......

I have been following this with idle curiosity....lot of good info all around.

Personally, I would go chat with the neighbor....ask him how much he wants for that lease...then tack on a fee for you time and give that to the lawyer....see what he says....it could be that cost will be cheaper than the survey and appraisal...or maybe not.

I have found that many a problem can be solved by sitting down...sharing a few beers and getting it all out on the table....If you go the lawyer route, you could potentially get compensated for the loss of the land....and end up not having access to that land for 21 years.

Being nice works a lot more often than acting like a lawyer...

So....write back to that lawyer....say something like:
"Sorry for the perception that my tone led you to believe I was not wanting to corroperate. Please understand my frustration over this whole mess.
I will go talk to the neighbor and see if he is intrested.......blaw blaw blaw"

Then...go have a chat.....

And I want to caution you on getting a lawyer....why? Because...you have a good case....there is no advantage to him for prompt resolution....the longer he can drag it out...the more he makes....self serving. The title company lawyer has already demonstrated that he knows his side of it....what he can do and not do....back him into a corner and he will not do you any favors.

Remember....the art of negotiation is giving up something that is of little value to you but worth a lot to the other person.

We know what the title company lawyer wants...to get off as cheap as possible.

We know what you want....your land.

Find out what the neighbor wants....what is his big plan? And it's obvious he has a big plan....why do you think it took so long for him to say "oh yea, by the way...I have this lease......"

There is a lot of wisdom in your words... I 2nd these recommendations.

 

[rancherbill]

I have been continuing to think about your problem. It seems that you are in this battle in this alone. The Real Estate lawyer that you talked to doesn't really want to help you.

Standing back looking at the problem, my understanding is that Title Insurance is a requirement of lenders to protect their interest in the property. Lenders do not want to lend on a property that has diminished value because of problems.

Do you have a loan or mortgage on the property? If so, the lender lawyers will probably get involved to protect their interests and the value of the property. Their lawyers will have been in the "swamp" and know how to deal with the Title Insurance alligators. It is in the interests of the Tile Insurance company to keep Huge-O Bank happy.

Just another thought.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Great thought RancherBill I am drafting an email to the person who handled our mortgage now.

Thanks,
Keith

 

[ddawg16]

Do you have a loan or mortgage on the property? If so, the lender lawyers will probably get involved to protect their interests and the value of the property.

I don't think that is accurate....the lender could really care less...he loaned the money...they borrower has to pay it back. As long as that happens they don't care what kind of problems the home owner has. The title insurance is strictly for the buyer.

Once again...take the high road....find out what the neighbors agenda is...go from there.

There is nothing worse than having to live next to a neighbor that you don't get along with.

I bend over backwards to help my neighbors...and they do the same. If I'm out of town, my neighbor takes care of my trash.....and he is 71 years old.

I'm getting ready to rebuild my garage...part of which includes a new block wall...which is going to be right down the property line. Why? Because I discussed the plan with my next door neighbor...I'm doing the wall...building him a new gate...and letting him have about 8" of my property where the garage is....give and take...I get my garage almost right up to the property line...and he gets a new wall and 25'x8" of my property.....and he still takes my trash out.

Neighbor behind me? We always discuss tool purchases before making them. Why? If the other already has it...then we can just borrow it. We are trading tools all the time.

Short story - The guy that does my exhaust work had a run in with his neighbor...seems the neightbors property line actually goes down part of my friends driveway. Basically, part of his driveway is in the neighbors yard. But, local code says that each house must have x feet of access to the back..hence, the neighbor can't stop him from using that 2' or so of driveway.

Neighbor complains about good guys trailer (he keeps his dirt bikes in it). By code it is supposed to be behind a fence is it's in the driveway. Well, if he parks it in the driveway, part of the trailer is on neighbors property.

Long strory short - $30K later (lawyer fees), good guy has a fence that is about 2' on the neighbors property...legally. And neighbor has a restraining order against him to leave good guy alone. Why so much money? Neighbor was a flaming as hole who would in no way listen to reason or try to work out a compromise. Good guy took the high road...yea, it cost him $30K...but he has his fence...neighbor has 2 liens on his property and the sheriff is waiting for a good excuse to take him to jail.

Take the high road.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

I am taking the high road with the neighbor, don't worry about that. They are good people and are stuck with this situation just like me because the Title Company did not do their job.

The problem I have this week it's County Fair time and no one is home all week at the neighbors because they are at the Fair. I did talk to a farm hand today and he is going to pass along that I stopped down and want to chat.

Hopefully it will be a productive chat and I can give the title company a figure to make this whole mess go away.

 

[Blue]

It sounds like you need a lawyer.

 

[rancherbill]

I don't think that is accurate....the lender could really care less...he loaned the money...they borrower has to pay it back.

That's exactly the point.

What happens if they don't pay it back. For example, you are building a garage close to the property line. They loan you money or mortgage based on the value of your property including your garage. The guy next door sells and the new owner complains to the city that you are too close to the property line. The city will force you to remove the garage. The bank is F***** as the value of the property has gone down.

Assuming you are not making payments, they get a property back that is worth a lot less. This is why they require surveys and title insurance. You pay these professionals to protect the banks interest (it's not fair). The bank has a huge interest in keeping the value of their loans or mortgages intact.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Well I took the step to talk to the neighbor / farmer on this issue this morning.

Question asked: "What would it take to buy out the lease?"

Answer: I really don't want to give up the land so I would have to say NO to it being bought out, but I'll take a look at it and get back to you.


I then informed him that on my side of things it will get very costly to settle this any other way as I will have to sue the title company. Hopefully he takes this into concideration when he takes a closer look at it.

We then chatted about the local fair that his grand kids participated in this last week. I left it as very non confruntational, just with the knowledge that he could make my life awhole lot easier if he would settle with me on the lease.

The lawyer for the title company did not return an answer to my last email / letter so I penned another this morning.

___________________________________________________________
This morning I had the opportunity to speek with the neighbor/farmer who holds the lease on the 2 arcres involved in this claim. His first response was no to a buy out, but that he would look at it closer and get back to me.

I want to make this perfectly clear that I did not purchase this piece of property with the knowledge that 30% of the property is under a lease for the next 21 years. This will prevent me from being able to do with the property what I planned.

While the valuation you have suggested through the survey and appraisal provides me with the difference in what I may have it does in no way provide me with the lossed value of what I purchased the property for.
__________________________________________________________

I will be calling the lawyer I consulted with a couple weeks ago this afternoon once the "boss" gets home. To discuss what I should do next as I don't see my 2 acres being available for the next 21 years the way this is heading.

The simple evaluation of what the Title Company is offering does nothing to take into concideration the value of what the 2 acres will produce in those 21 years. I would like to plant trees and grow them for an investment, in 21 years even hard woods would be very good sized and pay back some nice dividends on the initial investment. But I would probably plant a mixture of Pines / Spruces / Oak / Maple etc. on the land.

Using this medium to vent......

Thanks agian for that.
Keith

 

[cardinal5150]

Fascinating story... but only because I'm not in your shoes, I would have long ago lost my cool in this situation.

Be sure to point out your plans for the property and your lost investment to the title company if/when they make a deal to you.

Personally, if it were me and this situation weren't resolved by the fall I'd be putting in a fence around my property with a large enough gate for only a garden tractor to get through. If the farmer asks, I'd tell him he can still farm the field, he's just not getting any heavy machinery in there so he's going to use a horse and plow at best. But that's me.. I'm a *******.

 

[JB740i]

That ***** about the farmers response. You said he's got hundreds of acres, right?

Ask him if he knows anyone with a good price on a couple truck loads of salt or maybe a tanker full of roundup. Or if he knows what size nail will puncture a tractor tire.... They're not cheap

 

[PurdueSD]

Maybe i missed it, but how did the farmer proove he had a lease on the land?

...and I would be suing a real estate agent and or prior homeowner for failure to disclose (along with the title company). Glad you are finally getting a lawyer. I just hope you havent already shot yourself in the foot. Goodluck man, were all rooting for you.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

PurdueSD, the farmer has shown legal documentation that is onfile with the county registrar of deeds that the lease was filed on the 10th of February 1999.

JB740i, no they farm several thousands acres, the field behind our house is probably close to 80 acres in it self.

Hopefully I will get into talk to the lawyer again the end of this week. I just didn't want to have to pull out my wallet to get this resolved.