Large single swing gate design

[cwylie]

So I am building this fence on the side of my house and this idea looked good in my head but now looking at it I dont know if my bracing is going to cut it. The big steel post on the right is 4x4 .25 wall sunk 3 feet deep with 2 4 foot outriggers in the closed and open positions. Its all sunk and 28 80 pound bag of concrete and rebar. I dont thing its going to move. The problem I am concerned with is the gate. I would really like to be single swing with no wheel but I dont know if I am going to be able to pull it off because of the distance of the span which is right at 13 feet. The gate is self it built out of 1x3 11ga steel tube and the current braces are 1x3 14ga.

If it were you how would you build you bracing on this? All the current braces are only tacked in and I am thinking about changing them up to the drawing I have attached. The red lines would be the new steel braces and the green line a cable and turn buckle.

 

[srmofo]

3ft deep?....metal gate?....13'wide

You need a wheel

 

[A_Pmech]

Welcome to Garage Journal!

If torsion of the gate panel isn't an issue, I wouldn't go to the trouble of adding all that X-bracing. One brace from the top right of the photo down to the bottom left will solve any potential parallelogramming. If torsion of the gate panel IS an issue, I'd add the X-bracing.

Will your footing be sufficient? That depends largely on what you're going to hang on the gate frame.

 

[TimeWarpF100]

So I am building this fence on the side of my house and this idea looked good in my head but now looking at it I dont know if my bracing is going to cut it. The big steel post on the right is 4x4 .25 wall sunk 3 feet deep with 2 4 foot outriggers in the closed and open positions. Its all sunk and 28 80 pound bag of concrete and rebar. I dont thing its going to move. The problem I am concerned with is the gate. I would really like to be single swing with no wheel but I dont know if I am going to be able to pull it off because of the distance of the span which is right at 13 feet. The gate is self it built out of 1x3 11ga steel tube and the current braces are 1x3 14ga.

If it were you how would you build you bracing on this? All the current braces are only tacked in and I am thinking about changing them up to the drawing I have attached. The red lines would be the new steel braces and the green line a cable and turn buckle.

Here is how I did mine. A 6' high x 16' wide.

It swings with about 1lb of push. Just gotta watch when it gets windy! LOL

Never had such a nice swinging gate.

Plan was to do a picture on side facing street but have not gotten that far yet.

A engineer I am not! This has worked out much better than I could have hoped. I used a barrel hinge. Could not be happier with the end result.

 

[EdT]

As stated above, one brace from the upper right to the lower left is going to do most/all that needs to be done to hold the left corner up assuming that the rest of the structure is up to the task. It important that the brace be on axis with the central plane of the gate . Otherwise it will tend to twist the whole thing moving the lower left corner inward or outward depending on which side the brace is biased toward. You might consider a couple of pieces of 1/2 all thread arranged like a turnbuckle so you can tension things after it's put together.

 

[BRIANBB]

If the hinges are on the right then the brace needs to run from lower right to upper left. Opposite of how you have the green line in the pic.

 

[BAM its mitch]

If the hinges are on the right then the brace needs to run from lower right to upper left. Opposite of how you have the green line in the pic.

That would be true if it were a wood fence and the brace was wood too, but for steel it is right.

 

[srmofo]

If the hinges are on the right then the brace needs to run from lower right to upper left. Opposite of how you have the green line in the pic.

That would be true if it were a wood fence and the brace was wood too, but for steel it is right.

I dont see how it matters either way. The end result is the same in that a square stays square. Please enlighten me.

Personally Im more concerned about the hinge post only being 3 feet in the ground. 28 80lb bags is roughly 1/2 yard of concrete. At 13' away, 10lbs as going to weigh 130lbs, from there its an integration problem as the multiplier gets less with the closer you get to the post. That doesnt even include the added stress of the height. That post is almost certain to "tip" over time with and usage. Your only saving grace might be if the surrounding dirt is undisturbed and packed solid or clay

 

[EdT]

If the brace intended to keep the gate square is from the upper right to the lower left it is in tension and will be kept straight by that tension. If it's the other way around, it's in compression and will tend to bow/buckle and won't keep the gate square. If, just for an extreme example, the brace was a piece of steel cable in tension, it will hold the far corner up. If it's in compression, it won't do much at all. Metal is very good in tension. Wood is better in compression than it is in tension so if the gate was wood you might do it the other way, but there would still be issues to keep it from buckling. In fact, a reasonable way to brace the gate shown might be with a piece of steel cable corner to corner with a threaded adjuster at one end to tension the cable. Depends a bit on what the rest of the gate structure looks like as there is a risk of folding the whole thing up if the tension is too great.

 

[BAM its mitch]

If the brace intended to keep the gate square is from the upper right to the lower left it is in tension and will be kept straight by that tension. If it's the other way around, it's in compression and will tend to bow/buckle and won't keep the gate square. If, just for an extreme example, the brace was a piece of steel cable in tension, it will hold the far corner up. If it's in compression, it won't do much at all. Metal is very good in tension. Wood is better in compression than it is in tension so if the gate was wood you might do it the other way, but there would still be issues to keep it from buckling. In fact, a reasonable way to brace the gate shown might be with a piece of steel cable corner to corner with a threaded adjuster at one end to tension the cable. Depends a bit on what the rest of the gate structure looks like as there is a risk of folding the whole thing up if the tension is too great.

This. The weight of the gate wants to turn it into a parallelogram where the top left and bottom right corners have gotten closer together. Pulling them together with a steel cable isnt going to help matters but "wedging" a piece of wood in there would hold them apart.

 

[EdT]

As you wish.

 

[rsanter]

all you need to do is add one diagonal brace
it can be thin laterial as it will be in tension.
in fact it can be a cable with a tightening turbuckle if you want

bob

 

[Hpozzuoli]

I am looking to buy a new house. There is a large swing gate (I will put electric in if I buy the place) made of wood currently. Enlarge and take a look at the pic. The builder insists he uses this gate for every private road he makes. He was insulted when i made reference to the temporary gate. Up that road is two house. One is sold and on 5 acres. The other I am looking at is on 11 acres.

 

[vekster]

I am looking to buy a new house. There is a large swing gate (I will put electric in if I buy the place) made of wood currently. Enlarge and take a look at the pic. The builder insists he uses this gate for every private road he makes. He was insulted when i made reference to the temporary gate. Up that road is two house. One is sold and on 5 acres. The other I am looking at is on 11 acres.

Not to creep you out Hpozzuoli or highjack the thread but,
Is this the place your looking at?
http://www.trulia.com/property/3159834572-JOHNSTON-Tulip-Hill-Rd-Johnston-RI-02919#photo-19

I was just curious about how much 11 acres and house would sell for in your neck of the woods.
Beutiful house. i paid that much for 1 acre and house that needs a complete renovation and updating here in Ontario.

 

[Todd.Brock]

That is sort of creepy, but I have to ask, how did you find that ? Look at his location and then search for properties on 11 ac?

 

[vekster]

That is sort of creepy, but I have to ask, how did you find that ? Look at his location and then search for properties on 11 ac?

Sign on the gate - Tulip Hill rd.
and then properties for sale by the guy on the sign - Douglas Properties Rhode Island.
It was the first hit that came up in Google.

Scary thing is I am not even good with the internet or computers.
I just googled it.
I am always leary about posting pictures and stuff on the webernet!

 

[Hpozzuoli]

Wow. You guys have me creeped out now. I actually just had my offer accepted. Scary part is selling my house. The builder can sell from under me if an all cash buyer comes along without having to sell their house. Hopefully that won't happen and I can call this place home near the end of October.

I have been looking for a new place for almost a year, battling this builder for 6months to sell to me. Not sure why he is so cheap relative to size and acreage. Our mil is approx $28 per 1k in my area. House is all 2x6 etc. obviously you guys found the link so you can see the particulars.

 

[Todd.Brock]

Ah. I didn't see the sign or the realtor sign. Now I just need to know, what time is dinner. I have directions already...

 

[j p smith]

cwylie, I think this has been brought up before, you have done a good job, BUT, your gate post needs to be larger. You can put in a brace, top of one side to bottom on the other side but I think the post is going to lean.

TimeWarp that is an awesome gate!

Hpozzuoli, looks like the right side of the gate is already dragging.

 

[red92s]

If you are not automating it, Split it into two. Seriously. I'm going through the same thing, and that's the decision I've arrived at. Mine is only 11 feet wide (5.5 per leaf) and I'm using 4x4x.188 posts about 4 feet deep on each leaf. That's with a guy who works in the metal fabrication trade designing it (me) and a professional structural engineer specing the footings based on soil type and loads. The first foot or so of embedment does very little for you. You only regret digging a deep hole once, and depth is more critical than footing mass. You are trying to overcome the gate leverage with a very large mass of concrete, and a huuuge footing hole. If you had an existing driveway slab to tie into it would do you a LOT of good. Posts run through a driveway slab get a big boost in resistance to shifting. Depth will do you more good than volume.

If you can't split it, add a grade beam linking the two post underground, or pour a rib or of concrete linking your post footings. Trying to save money by buying one set of hinges on a gate that big is asking for problems.