Lateset SO crows feet vs other

[spencerdiesel]

Hey ya'll, I ordered some new Sae snap on crows feet and expected them to be like the ones my coworker has.

The new ones aren't stamped (laser etch?) and I noticed they used the same size (exterior) crows foot for 1" & 15/16", 7/8" & 13/16", 3/4" & 11/16"........basically all except for 9/16" & 1/2". I'm not super pleased with the lobster claw effect for half of the crows feet in the set.

Questions being:

Anyone want to discourage me from selling them?

Who else makes a top tier crows foot?

My other coworkers matco/Armstrong ones are very nice, and I like the looks of the Wright crows feet.

Thanks

 

[B_Bimmer]

The proto ones are still very nice. I hate laser etching.

 

[Firebrick43]

+1 on the protos. Just got a set 2 weeks ago for work. Crowsfoot is for tight spots and there is no reason for them to use the same outside dimensions. My proto set was missing a 9/16 and had two 5/8. I call to their customer service was pleasant, a woman who actually knew the product that she was servicing, and no wait. Few days later had a 9/16 in the mail.

 

[ChevyEFI]

Pics please.

I have older SO flare nut cf that are stamped and new are etched.

 

[Jaysreal]

Questions being:

Anyone want to discourage me from selling them?

Who else makes a top tier crows foot?

My other coworkers matco/Armstrong ones are very nice, and I like the looks of the Wright crows feet.

Thanks

What is the Part number to your set, if you don't have that, the Part number on one of the crowsfeet will do. Do they have the line wrench style opening or just the standard opening?

Also, are you looking for either of those styles specifically, and do you prefer USA, German, Japanese?

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[spencerdiesel]

Great info. I'll figure out how to get a pic posted, they are open end crows feet. I've got the flare nut style my Dad gave me, underline SO he bought new in the late 80's. The part number for the 15/16" is FCO30A.

I would really like USA, I like supporting companies like Wright and Cornwell

Thanks guys

 

[Jaysreal]

These are all 3/8 drive, American made, SAE, and stamped instead of etched, with the exception of the SK set which appears to be 3/8" and 1/2" drive

Skt 42265 11pc $145
Wright tool 700 10pc $160
Proto j49003cf 15pc $343
Proto j49004cf 11pc $171
Matco SMCFS11T 11pc $282
Cornwell CFW12PFS 12pc $313
Mac in all likelihood will be the same as the Protos.
Williams in all likelihood will be the same as snap-on, that is, if they're not Taiwanese.

You might want to have a look at Bonney, there's been some talk around GJ about the strength of "v" open ends versus "u" open ends but I'm not sure how much that matters for a crows foot. Bonney has also been out of business since like 1996 so there will be no warranty but many here have praised that brand for their outstanding quality even today.

Anyways for $52.50 you could buy two sets for less than the others:
http://www.harryepstein.com/index.php/3-8-drive-open-end-bonney-crowfoot-set.html

For that price I may have to get some for myself.

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[oldtools]

I hate laser etched. Once the marking is gone, buyer will think it is just HF crowfoot. No one will pay Snap On price for it. Will SO honor the warranty if they themselves could not recognize their own tools. I would get a used SO set with the stamping instead.

 

[T45]

The laser etch is pretty common on crows feet and torque adapters. The stamping is definitely better, the laser etch is like a cancer spreading from tap and dies sets to drills now to other hand tools. Ugh. Making tools out of the same blank really is a suprise tho. I would email snap-on and likely also maybe look at other sets on ebay to confirm if that's normal. double Ugh...

edit: here is a stamped set of crowsfeet, they seem to be in vauguely similar blank-sizes.

Stamped flare >http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/BSwAAOSw4CFYxvhh/s-l1600.jpg

Underlined logo >http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/zmMAAOSww3tY6toP/s-l1600.jpg

 

[bob15]

 

[Strouty]

The only ones I will be buying are the 12 point version Snap On offers, I guess they are not twelve point, but I think you guys know what I mean.

My driver keeps trying to sell me the crowsfeet and I tell him no because of the laser etching. He always tells me that he will stamp the sizes in them if I buy them.

 

[Empty Pockets]

IMO Laser etching is cheaper for the tool company, and when after getting knocked around and used, the laser etching becomes unreadable, the warranty goes away, too. What a deal

 

[Jaysreal]

The only ones I will be buying are the 12 point version Snap On offers, I guess they are not twelve point, but I think you guys know what I mean.

My driver keeps trying to sell me the crowsfeet and I tell him no because of the laser etching. He always tells me that he will stamp the sizes in them if I buy them.

Will he stamp the date code, that's what I'd be asking him.

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[Strouty]

I am sure he will, he always tells me he will paint anything I want green if I buy it too.

 

[WhiffySpark]

I don't really give a damn if it's etched or stamped.

I have cornwell crows feet and can't read the damn stamping

 

[spencerdiesel]

 

[ihateminimumwage]

Wow, that 11/16" is some ******** right there.

 

[spencerdiesel]

Yep, I/m hockin 'em

I ordered a set of the Bonney's, For that price I may get another for the house

 

[disston]

Can't you return them? Explain how many Snap On tools you currently own and say that if the quality you expect is not maintained you will be shopping elsewhere. It really sounds to me that SO is screwing up. Also sounds like the Bean Counters have started to take over. First sign of the ultimate failure of American USA made business. This has happened time and time again in my life. Product is cheapened up to make more profit then when they can't sell them anymore they go out of business.

 

[bobcatdan]

Looking my set of SO crowfoot, only the 15/16" and 1" appear to be the same blank. Even with that I would not consider the 15/16" bulky or lobster claw. No other sizes match up as the same. A couple are real close, but not a perfect match.

 

[Strouty]

It looks like they get a couple sizes out of the same blanks. The 11/16" does look wrong, just wrong.

 

[Sanny81]

Wow those look ridiculous. I've been looking for a set as well and that Bonney one looks nice.

 

[bob15]

Wow!

It looks like:

15/16 & 1" are the same blank
7/8 & 13/16 are the same blank
3/4 & 11/16 are the same blank
9/16 & 5/8 are the same blank
7/16 & 3/8 are the same blank

The 1/2 is the only crowfoot with it own size. Very poor set, especially for the price.

 

[WhiffySpark]

Where did you order them from?

 

[spencerdiesel]

Hey they're not too bad for the.....Oh wait..... yes, yes they are

I'm going to talk to my snapon man just to see what he says.

Ordered them off the student discount site. Who's got Wright crows feet?

 

[T45]

Is it just my eyes or is all that laser etching not even consistent? They honestly look like knock offs. Take a closer look at like the fonts sizes btw 5/8 and 9/16 ths etc.

 

[shockwave]

On there crows feet I bought a new flare nut set with laser etching it appears when they switched to newer font and got rid of stamping them

Probably due to being cheaper to manufacturers of these

 

[AA/FC]

Menards - Masterforce, made in USA. Unfortunately, I believe they have recently stopped selling these in their stores. May still be available online....

 

[WittHay]

There is is a thread from 2009 that has a unopened stamped set for sale. The shape is the same as the current ones. Different than the crows feet made in the 80/90's

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37502

 

[md21722]

It looks like they get a couple sizes out of the same blanks. The 11/16" does look wrong, just wrong.

The Snap On specification does in fact say they should be nearly the same, with the 3/4" being 2/64" larger overall.

 

[bobcatdan]

While I can see minor difference between my older set which is stamped and the newer set, I don't see much issue with the new set, especially since I have had any problems using the new ones.

 

[Finky198]

It looks like they get a couple sizes out of the same blanks. The 11/16" does look wrong, just wrong.

The Snap On specification does in fact say they should be nearly the same, with the 3/4" being 2/64" larger overall.

Your correct and the flare crowsfeet are similar in size as well, every 2 are almost identical but off by a hair. I think it has more to do with max torque for a given size, in the catalog they rate them and it seems very consistent...

To the op I find it hard to believe that they will not suffice from a technical standpoint. If you don't like them i.e. Looks, etching, etc. that's one thing, but that should have no effect of their performance nor should the "big" 11/16" really be and issue...

 

[Jaysreal]

To the op I find it hard to believe that they will not suffice from a technical standpoint. If you don't like them i.e. Looks, etching, etc. that's one thing, but that should have no effect of their performance nor should the "big" 11/16" really be and issue...

The op's set cost $343 retail. From a price stand point, when someone pays a premium price tag they should receive a premium product, Yes stamping IS a small detail but when your set is amung the most expensive available small details like this should not be omitted. Especially when your company clears 1.7 Billion gross!

Otherwise what exactly is the point of purchasing a Snap-on set when every set I posted earlier IS stamped, USA made, and cost less than the Snap-on set.

Bottom line: Plenty of Chinese tool manufacturers are etching their cheap chrome tools. Why replicate that in your premium tool brand?

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[2oolhound]

This photo is deceiving because the camera is closer to the bottom right side of the tray which makes the tools on the bottom right look bigger than the tools on the top left.

I agree they should be stamped and your tool guy can't do that without ruining the chrome.

 

[Finky198]

Go complain to Snap on see what they say... I sure their R&D could shed some light. I could careless. Their crowsfeet are probably the best in the industry. If you can't understand the difference Between Chinese/other brands and Snap on. (Vintage stuff is in its own league...) Then you must not pay very much attention on the is forum. On top of that If laser etching is a deal breaker then you have bigger issues. Thats my op if you don't agree that's fine.

Laser etching form a production standpoint removes the wear part i.e. stamping dies,
Every piece needs its own die, Thus its a super expensive process that's why their discontinuing it. One laser etching machine could hold endless programs for each size and the wear parts are few and far between... it's the way of the future get use to it....


I mean for god sakes he hasn't even used them...they are still wrapped in the plastic...
If you don't like what you spent your money on that's fine, but don't judge a book by its cover.

 

[spencerdiesel]

I like that the Matco/Armstrong crows feet seem size matched. Each crows foot is made for it's own dimensions.

However, I don't know how long ago it was my coworker bought the matco set. The current production may very well be different.

 

[chrisnazzy]

This thread caught my eye a few days ago and has been very informative but ultimately has only made me realize that I do like the older style stamped versions better. I buy a lot of new Snap-on off the truck but due to cost vs. frequency of use for crows foot wrenches, this would have been an item I would have sought out used anyway.

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[Jaysreal]

Go complain to Snap on see what they say... I sure their R&D could shed some light. I could careless. Their crowsfeet are probably the best in the industry. If you can't understand the difference Between Chinese/other brands and Snap on. (Vintage stuff is in its own league...) Then you must not pay very much attention on the is forum. On top of that If laser etching is a deal breaker then you have bigger issues. Thats my op if you don't agree that's fine.

Laser etching form a production standpoint removes the wear part i.e. stamping dies,
Every piece needs its own die, Thus its a super expensive process that's why their discontinuing it. One laser etching machine could hold endless programs for each size and the wear parts are few and far between... it's the way of the future get use to it....


I mean for god sakes he hasn't even used them...they are still wrapped in the plastic...
If you don't like what you spent your money on that's fine, but don't judge a book by its cover.

I actually read plenty of threads here on GJ AND I don't have resort to logical fallacies when my opinion is challenged.

1. What's funny is that in the image I posted, Snap-on reports no R&D expense.

2. "Best in the industry" this statement is not quantified and have you any proof of this?

3. "If you can't understand the difference" Are you challenging the quality of the likes of Wright Tool and Proto? If so have you any proof their quality is lessor to Snap-on?

4. "Then you have bigger issues" what issues do you mean? Also, most of the people in this thread, who have weighed in on the etching, say they dislike it.

5. "Laser etching from a production standpoint" Do you work for Snap-on? Have you any proof that sheds light on the actual reason they discontinued stamping them, or is this just speculation?

6. "It's the way of the future" How can this be when the other USA manufacturers, save for Snap-on, currently stamp their crows feet?

I am not biased for, or against the brands mentioned earlier in this thread. I understand some are willing to support them regardless of their rebranding and unnecessary cost cutting but I simply can not. Kudos to the op for seeking to support other or smaller quality USA manufacturers.

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[Finky198]

I not going to waste my time.

 

[Loscaldazar]

I not going to waste my time.

If SK, Wright, Proto, and Armstrong, and many other premium quality brands can make their crowfoots with stamping and make each size out of a correctly sized blank (and not reuse the same size blank for different sizes like cheap chinese manufacturers do- or like Snap On does), why can't snap on, who is charging way more than them (2-3 times the price)?

The answer is, Snap On found a way to save money while relying on their name brand to sell the tools, not the actual quality.

Besides that, laser etching *****. It wears off quickly and then you are left with a tool that has no name, size, or markings of any sort on it. Mr. Tool Truck driver ain't warrantying a tool that doesn't have Snap On clearly on it.