In todays world what would you do if you wanted to teach a youngster lathe/milling type work? Manual machines or computer controlled, I have neither at this time.
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Lathe question
- Thread starter 930dreamer
- Start date
lzenglish
Well-known member
Basic Machine Shop Course at Your local City, or Community College is the Best way to Go if He or She is old enough. Find the 2 year program, which ends up in Advanced Machine Shop. I Took it Many Years ago.
LZ
LZ
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I feel like you're going to get a bias toward manual machining since that's probably what many here started with and because there is some benefit to physically interacting with a machine's controls to develop an intuition about how the machines operate. That said, the way you phrased your question is interesting and, depending on your objective, it could be more advantageous in some ways to learn to program digital and cnc machines.In todays world what would you do if you wanted to teach a youngster lathe/milling type work? Manual machines or computer controlled, I have neither at this time.
Certainly if one were interested in a career, digital machining probably offers more opportunity. But if you are just trying to provide exposure to machining among other things, manual machining might offer a better glimpse into the "fundamentals".
cvairwerks
Well-known member
Got to walk before you run. Most CNC guys I've seen are nothing more than button pushers.
For decent CNC learing: https://titansofcnc.com/
For decent CNC learing: https://titansofcnc.com/
lzenglish
Well-known member
"VERY WELL SAID" ! Go to School, (College and or Trade School First), and Get a Good Foundation to Build On!Got to walk before you run. Most CNC guys I've seen are nothing more than button pushers.
For decent CNC learing: https://titansofcnc.com/
PS: The reason we have so many Non Qualified Hacks in our Trades Today, is because allot want to take the shortcut "EASY WAY OUT". Their Major Concern is the Cash, NOT the Craftsmanship in the Trade!
LZ,.... Proud, Retired, Baby Boomer Craftsman !
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Sweetcorn
Well-known member
I'm a master toolmaker. I've trained more apprentices than I could probably recall.
Learning manual machines first will teach speeds and feeds in a manner that gives a person direct and immediate tactile feedback. As posted above, many people want to jump straight to CNC control but it's like letting a blind person drive a car.
I'm certainly not anti CNC, I'm about as pro technology as you'll find. I understand what it takes to make a highly skilled individual. The extra setups and steps needed to get jobs done on manual machines teach someone a lot. Its often more than they'll get from having someone at their side telling them what to do, or from watching a video or reading a book. It's all part of the development of their skills.
I've had quite a few new hires that claimed to know CNC but lacked the most rudimentary manual machine skills. They've never worked out, unfortunately. There's just a lot of necessary foundational knowledge that comes from working through all those situations if you want to be valuably skilled.
So much stuff is CNC driven now and for great reason. I don't know the specifics of your situation, but I would push for manual machine education, followed with CNC operation/set up, and then CNC programming.
Edited to add: In my opinion, the lathe is the most dangerous machine in most shops. I'd make sure the trainee was safety minded before letting them near one. You know, just make sure they're aware of their surroundings before giving too much freedom.
Learning manual machines first will teach speeds and feeds in a manner that gives a person direct and immediate tactile feedback. As posted above, many people want to jump straight to CNC control but it's like letting a blind person drive a car.
I'm certainly not anti CNC, I'm about as pro technology as you'll find. I understand what it takes to make a highly skilled individual. The extra setups and steps needed to get jobs done on manual machines teach someone a lot. Its often more than they'll get from having someone at their side telling them what to do, or from watching a video or reading a book. It's all part of the development of their skills.
I've had quite a few new hires that claimed to know CNC but lacked the most rudimentary manual machine skills. They've never worked out, unfortunately. There's just a lot of necessary foundational knowledge that comes from working through all those situations if you want to be valuably skilled.
So much stuff is CNC driven now and for great reason. I don't know the specifics of your situation, but I would push for manual machine education, followed with CNC operation/set up, and then CNC programming.
Edited to add: In my opinion, the lathe is the most dangerous machine in most shops. I'd make sure the trainee was safety minded before letting them near one. You know, just make sure they're aware of their surroundings before giving too much freedom.
marak
Well-known member
What is the ultimate goal...personal skills for hobby/DIY projects or a possible career path?In todays world what would you do if you wanted to teach a youngster lathe/milling type work? Manual machines or computer controlled, I have neither at this time.
dutchgray
Well-known member
If going for a career it's not just CNC operations you should also do some CAD / CAM, technical drawing, general engineering, mathematics, industrial electronics etc.
You want to know as much as you can because there isn't ever going to be much money if all you can do is load parts and press the go button.
I would start with manual machining as those are skills that can always be put to use for other things.
You want to know as much as you can because there isn't ever going to be much money if all you can do is load parts and press the go button.
I would start with manual machining as those are skills that can always be put to use for other things.
txvwnut
Well-known member
Manual machines first always. That way they can learn proper tool geometry, angle of approach, feeds and speeds and setup.
It's an interesting question. Undoubtedly the "old-timers" will be biased against what is less known to them. CNC comes in many shapes and sizes and servo motors are awesome.
Nowadays, there's still the need for manual machining, but a modern "manual" mill can rely on computer controlled drives instead. For example, a new Weiler. Stepless feeds, stepless drive speeds, almost no expensive and crunchy gearboxes, no switching gears for different thread feeds, can manually adjust speed on-the-fly as you go close to the centre (possibly even automatically to retain the same cutting velocity through the diameter), can do simple radius and chamfer shapes as well as somewhat more complex stuff...
What can an old manual mill offer that a "servo mill" like this can't? I don't think there's anything more to it, it is just better if you know how to use it. Even for learning the very basic fundamentals, it's just way more clear what you're doing.
Nowadays, there's still the need for manual machining, but a modern "manual" mill can rely on computer controlled drives instead. For example, a new Weiler. Stepless feeds, stepless drive speeds, almost no expensive and crunchy gearboxes, no switching gears for different thread feeds, can manually adjust speed on-the-fly as you go close to the centre (possibly even automatically to retain the same cutting velocity through the diameter), can do simple radius and chamfer shapes as well as somewhat more complex stuff...
What can an old manual mill offer that a "servo mill" like this can't? I don't think there's anything more to it, it is just better if you know how to use it. Even for learning the very basic fundamentals, it's just way more clear what you're doing.
cvairwerks
Well-known member
Whole lot cheaper to have a neophyte crash a tool on a manual machine that may cost a grand or two to fix, rather than crashing one that’s a grand or more to get the factory guy there to figure out what all is damaged. You really want to turn a neophyte with no concepts of speeds and feeds, tool geometry or cutting paths loose on a 50k to million dollar machine?
FYI, a used 1998 Weiler 35 series machine will set you back about 32,000$ for a bare machine. For new, probably you can add another 40,000$, then whatever it cost to tool it.
BTW..... I’m the 5th generation machinist in my family, having grown up with manual machines and run and programed CNC machines for a paycheck at times.
FYI, a used 1998 Weiler 35 series machine will set you back about 32,000$ for a bare machine. For new, probably you can add another 40,000$, then whatever it cost to tool it.
BTW..... I’m the 5th generation machinist in my family, having grown up with manual machines and run and programed CNC machines for a paycheck at times.
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CapriMikeC
Well-known member
As mentioned above, more specifics about the goals will help. As a potential career? Hobbyist tinkering? Saw it on YouTube and it looked cool?
Youngsters sponge up technology that addles older folks. This allows them to leapfrog over things.
Another approach is to get a manual benchtop lathe, get familiar with it, then CNC retrofit yourself. For example, there are scads of videos on YouTube about converting Harbor Freight benchtop lathes to CNC.
Youngsters sponge up technology that addles older folks. This allows them to leapfrog over things.
Another approach is to get a manual benchtop lathe, get familiar with it, then CNC retrofit yourself. For example, there are scads of videos on YouTube about converting Harbor Freight benchtop lathes to CNC.