Lawn Experts - Help!!

[tfreer85]

Okay so I'm hoping there are some lawn experts out there that can help me out. I have tall fescue grass in Bakersfield, CA. I've been noticing an increase of weeds popping up and it is slowly destroying my front lawn and has pretty much destroyed my back lawn. I have several types of weeds and have tried using the ortho "kills weeds not lawns" but it killed my backyard completely (see all brown photo). Can anyone help me out on how to restore this cheaply? I hate not having a good looking lawn.

Backyard: Nutgrass, some other big tough weed. Also the results of the Ortho.

This weed generates the thorns and has started to take over in the front.

 

[Mickey O]

Looks like my lawn at the new place. At the old place I started out with a similar looking lawn, I pulled all the weeds by hand (if you have kids they're great for this), used Scotts weed killer and fertilizer twice a year (spring & fall) and pulled the occasional weeds by hand, I'd also rake out all the thatch to prevent root rot and ended up with a really nice looking lawn. I'm definitely not an expert though, just what worked for me, I've also heard aerating the lawn is a good thing to do. At the new place I pulled enough weeds to fill 12 of those large paper lawn bags, luckily a lot of the weeds were those prickly ones that cut your hands.

 

[J Persons]

I'm not an expert my any means, but until two years go, I lived just over the hill from you in Rosamond. I also had tall fescue and can tell you that it needs much more water usual, I assume due to the dry air and the way the wind would blow. In the summer I would water three times a day for seven minutes each time. Tall fescue does not regenerate itself, that is, what you see is what you get. It will not spread to fill in any bare spots. If you want a smooth soft lawn with thin blades of grass, sow the seed fairly heavy, if you want a coarse wide blade sow it sparsely.
You will need to kill out and probably dig out the weed root to stop them from regrowing. I was probably lucky with my fescue lawn, the only thing that I had problems with was dandlions. There is an Ortho product specifically for nut grass that I use here in Louisiana and it sometimes may take a couple of applications to kill it all out, but I don't know if it's legal in Ca.

 

[mrpowderkeg]

weed killer, weed b gone, About the only weed it won't kill is quack grass. I'd water your lawn good for a week, so that what grass you have is not stressed, and get all the weeds to grow for a week, then hit it with a good selective weed killer, and let it sit for a few days. You'll kill the nasty stuff. After a few days mow it, and then I would rake in some seed in the dead areas, and water it at least twice a day for about 5 min. After you have seeded any weeds that come up, I'd pull by hand, go over it once a day.

 

[bczygan]

Weeds only grow where a healthy lawn isn't already in place.
Maintaining a healthy lawn is labor intensive.
Is that something you are ready to commit to?
If so, there is plenty of advice online, and especially at your local county cooperative extension service. This will also be specific for your area.
But the three basics are:
Cut no more than 1/3 of the grass height with a sharp mulching mower.
Water 1" a week (Deep soak for long roots).
Aerate when lawn becomes too thick.

De-thatching harms the lawn.

A healthy lawn will crowd out weeds and keep their seeds from sprouting and growing.

In an arid semi desert area like that in parts of the west, I would be sorely tempted to plant a landscape that used less water and minimize grass or eliminate it. Especially with the cost of water there and the size of your lot.

 

[csp]

Tall fescue doesn't do so well in hot, dry conditions. Spray it with a broadleaf weed killer and with it already under stress, it will kill it.

I can't see the weed well enough in the pictures, but the descriptions sounds like goat heads. http://www.goatheads.com/

If they are, you gotta keep these plants from putting on the thorns (the seeds actually) to get them under control. Once they go to seed they are viable for several years. If they have thorns, get out there and cut them off at ground level and throw the weeds in the trash, disturbing them as little as possible to keep the seeds from falling off, as they will take over.

 

[tfreer85]

Thank you all for the feedback. I've got seed to lay down, but didn't want to waste it until I could get it back to looking...decent. The ortho weed be gone was laid down about 2 weeks ago. The backyard was green, then turned to this, I think its been shocked, but didn't kill any of the weeds. I water twice a day at 7-10 minutes each. I have get out and clean through the mower, I think it might be aiding in spreading the weeds around.

CSP - yeah goatheads in the front, nut grass in the back. Very common problems for most of my neighbors as well.

Bczygan - Whenever I've seen mulching on fescue it choked out what was underneath and turned it brown. I keep my cutting height to a minimum and cut weekly, not mulching though.

Thanks again for all the feedback. Didn't know if I was doing something desperately wrong.

 

[smschriefer]

Don't cut fescue short. You want fescue long so that it can smother the weeds and also to help keep the ground from drying out. I don't know about CA, but on the East Coast you water 1" per week in the morning.

 

[GN4WHLN]

Germination inhibitors work well as many weeds and undesirable grasses are annuals. The heat is probably kickin' your lawn's *** right now. I'm a fan of St. Augistine. Loves the heat, and will choke off almost any weed/crabgrass. I use a 15-15-15 fertilizer and never any weedkiller.

 

[J Persons]

Don't cut fescue short. You want fescue long so that it can smother the weeds and also to help keep the ground from drying out. I don't know about CA, but on the East Coast you water 1" per week in the morning.

In this part of California, you water until it starts to run off, and that is usually around 7 or 8 minutes. The ground just won't accept any more water, it will be saturated to a depth of around 6" then it's hard packed clay. It took me three weeks to hand dig the trenches for my sprinkler lines, I would dig a little, fill the trench with water and come back a couple of hours later and dig out a couple more inches. The water would still be in the trench a couple of hours later.

 

[MrMark]

I just did a small section of Marathon II sod in south Orange County. It doesn't like the heat, that is for sure. It also requires a lot of water - a lot more than they say. I have been trying to water every other day for 34 minutes (MP rotators that put down about 3/4 inch/hour) and it is not really enough. To keep it up in the heat it needs water EVERY day. It is a cool season grass and it struggles mightily with the heat. I'm sure it will be very vigorous in the fall and spring, which is its time. Won't do any more of the stuff if I have my way.

I would NOT do Marathon II again in a high heat area. I would use a hot season grass like zoysia (if in the budget) or some hybrid bermuda. Bakersfield and fescue do not match as I see it. Fescue may be great at the beach but not desert heat.

 

[tfreer85]

Okay, so after a couple hours of work I:

1) Pulled out all the goatshead in the front. Raked the area to pull up as much as possible and show the bare soil.
2) Mowed on a "3" level (1-5) with mulching. Laid HEAVY seed in the barron spots and soaked them.

To Do:
1) Up my watering times and frequency. I'm thinking two in the early-to-mid morning and one in the evening. VS one morning and one evening.
2) Start working the backyard when its not so dang hot.

I've heard of sugar or molasses working for nut grass. Anyone ever tried this?

 

[Gary S]

The last time I was in Bakersfield, it looked like a desert to me. I wouldn't expect to grow much of a lawn in a desert without taking extreme measures.

 

[zip95864]

i have a hard enough time keeping the weeds green. So my philosophy is if it's green it's good.

 

[tfreer85]

The last time I was in Bakersfield, it looked like a desert to me. I wouldn't expect to grow much of a lawn in a desert without taking extreme measures.

Not much green, but we do provide most of the agriculture for well everywhere. Sure you're not thinking of Baker on your way to Las Vegas? They often get confused.

Zip95864 - I wish I had that mentality. I like having a lawn and a green one at that.

 

[zip95864]

Zip95864 - I wish I had that mentality. I like having a lawn and a green one at that.

Well I do have lawn (but I'd be scared taking Weed B Gone to it), here's mine in March of this year

I read once that homeowners spend more money and put more chemicals per acre than farmers.

 

[tfreer85]

So here are some results from todays work. The front yard is / was in better condition.

Before:

After

 

[tfreer85]

Well figured I'd give you guys a little update. Here is the front lawn in the same spot that had all the thorns coming through:

Here is the backyard now:

Its still not perfect and still needs a lot of work. Right now, I'm still fighting weeds back there. I'm attempting taking the good clean clippings from the front and "transplanting" them in the backyard to help with nutrients. I try not to mulch the backyard too much because I'm afraid of spreading the weeds more. Any thoughts?

Thank you all for your suggestions, they have changed the way I do lawn care!

 

[theoldwizard1]

weed killer, weed b gone, About the only weed it won't kill is quack grass.

Not true.

Besides quack grass, it will not kill nutsedge, also called nut grass, any many other undesirable "grasses".

 

[theoldwizard1]

If all that brown is really dead, not just dormant, kill the rest off with Roundup. Some weeds, especially nutsedge, you need to wait a good 4 weeks to see if it re-sprouts.

If you are going to reseed, fall is a good time, although it is too late in most parts of the country (must be above 50 during the day). Rototilling is good, if you are certain that all of the nutsedge is really dead. Add about an 1" of composted manure, level, seed and cover lightly with straw. Seed must be watered 2 or 3 times a day. until it sprouts. Then once a day until it is long enough to cut.

 

[tfreer85]

If all that brown is really dead, not just dormant, kill the rest off with Roundup. Some weeds, especially nutsedge, you need to wait a good 4 weeks to see if it re-sprouts.

If you are going to reseed, fall is a good time, although it is too late in most parts of the country (must be above 50 during the day). Rototilling is good, if you are certain that all of the nutsedge is really dead. Add about an 1" of composted manure, level, seed and cover lightly with straw. Seed must be watered 2 or 3 times a day. until it sprouts. Then once a day until it is long enough to cut.

Thanks oldwizard. The latest is after I did a heavy weed killing and dethatching. After 6-weeks I applied the seed, which has gotten me to the last post of the backyard. It's a little thin (obviously), but it is coming in nicely. I'll need to overseed it again in spring, but that's okay. So far I'm happy with the results.

I was more curious about transplanting the front yard clippings at this point. Any thoughts?

Again, thank you all for the help!

 

[AMCguy]

tfreer85, I've been in the lawn maintenance business since 1986. I have been called an expert, so I do feel qualified to chime in.

From your posts I can see you doing two things that I would do differently.

1. Mulching. I mulch whenever it is possible. Generally speaking, you can't spread weeds from their mulched clippings. You also don't create thatch. The benefit is, the nutrients that came from the soil to grow the grass get returned to the soil with every mowing. The organic material that rots into the lawn provides food for a multitude of worms, bugs and other organisms. They are your lawn's friend. They digest the material and excrete nutrients. It's a win/win scenario. As their population goes up, the greater the lawns appetite for clippings. There are other benefits as well, but that's the main one.

2. Watering. A lawn that is watered often for only a few minutes will develop a shallow, weak root system that is dependent on frequent shallow watering. It will perish quickly if you miss a day or two. Instead water heavily and less often. Here is how it works. Water heavily in order to soak the soil to a depth of about five or six inches. this in most soils take about an inch of water. It takes an average sprinkler a good couple of hours to do that. You can gauge it by putting a container with straight sides out on the lawn and see how long it takes to collect an inch. Now, don't water for a few days. You have to let the surface of the soil dry out. If there is water below them, the roots will grow deeper in search of it. As the soil dries to a greater depth, the roots grow deeper and deeper. This won't happen all at once but it will happen. Soon you will have deep roots and a lawn that should go almost a week even in the hot California sun. Note: Water in the early morning when the soil is the coolest. Avoid watering in the day or evening. As much as 80% of the water will be lost to evaporation. You effectively didn't water.

A couple of other rules of thumb you can't go wrong by.

1. Mow long. 3'' is better than 2 1/2''. It shades the soil more slowing down evaporation. Plus the longer the turf the harder it is for weeds to compete. You can actually choke out weeds with heathy turf.

2. Feed and water enough for the turf to grow enough to require a mow at least once a week. (every five days is better)

3. When mowing always observe the 1/3 rule. Never remove more than 1/3 of the length in a mowing.

I hope this helps.

 

[tfreer85]

AMCguy - Thanks for the feedback. Right now this is my current routine.

Mulch every other week. On the off week, I take the clippings from the front yard and spread them on the backyard. The backyard is still a problem. After the overseeding the new grass isn't tall enough or thick enough to really mulch enough on its own.

Watering, now I typically do 2 a week at about 30-minutes each.

Mowing, I have it set to 5-inches, the highest setting for my mower. (I noticed that made a HUGE HUGE difference in health, color, and lack of weeds)

Thanks to you guys I now have the best looking, thickest, and GREENEST lawn on the block.

For the backyard, I think I'm too late in the season for much outside of some watering and mowing. I know I can't seed anymore, and I think the new seed/overseed couldn't handle a new fertilizer.

Tyson

 

[jimindm]

Find a farmer owned co-op, or a true farm store in your area. Those weeds that you are fighting in your yard are most likely indeginous of your area, and farmers will fight them also. They will have something to fight your weeds. It may not be cheap.

Big box stores, sell product mostly ready to use. What you would buy at a farm store would be pure product, that you would mix with water. Box store product maybe $10 a gallon, ready to use. Farm store maybe $40 a gallon that you mix with water. It is usually just ounces to the gallon. You can use it with a spot sprayer, stihl makes a good one. For a larger application use a hose end spayer that has settings.

In central Iowa, I have tall fescue and kentucky bluegrass. I use a product call mecamine plus, that I use in my hose end sprayer. I then just use starter fertalizer, in a broadcast speader.

As others have said a great looking lawn is a process. It does not happen overnight, and it is not easy and hard work. Some people pay for it, some people enjoy doing it.

It also depends on your neighbors. In my case, neither side neighbors could care less about there lawn, and seldom even mow. The side that is seperated by a drive way looks pretty good. The other side, the neighbors wonder why there is such a difference in there yard. I guess my treating a little past the property line is confusing them. You can tell exactly where I treat up to.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I don't know about your climate, but my favorite trick for a greener, healthier lawn is to use 19-19-19 "farm" fertilizer in early spring (Mar/Apr in the Midwest) and again in the fall (Oct). You can't find this stuff at a big box store. You need to go to a real old fashioned feed store.

It works well because during those time the weather is cool, usually below 70 and there is above average rainfall.

 

[RobertF]

tfreer85... check out http://www.gardenerssupplyinc.com/

They've just North of Rosedale Hwy on Landco. Great guys over there, helped get my lawns in top shape.

 

[tfreer85]

Thanks guys, I'll have to look into some of these products when spring starts to come around.

RobertF - you local to Bako?

Thanks again!