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Leak Detection

gregs

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Mar 16, 2007
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Looking for feedback from members who have used a leak detection company to locate a leak possibly under the slab or in a block wall. Did they find it? How accurate where they? How confident where they that they had "the spot"?

Here's the back story. While at the family weekend house over the 4th my wife heard a sound similar to a running toilet. I went and listened and sure enough it sounded like water running. So I start by checking every plumbing device in the house and nothing was on or leaking. Look at all the walls inside and out for any signs of a leak, nada. So I shutoff the hot water at the water heater and the sound is still there. Turn the main shut off and the noise goes away, so its on the cold water side. So I established there was definitely a leak some where. The city had recently replaced the water meter with a new fancy digital one and to the best of my abilities to read it I came up with 1/17 of a gallon per hour, so its small. With the new meters the city tracks usage very tightly and can tell you by the day of an crazy changes, wife talks to the person at the city and they run a report and everything looks normal. So it confirms a small leak and probably just recently started.

Back, Back story. About 5 years ago we had a similar leak at our house in the bathroom (same situation of hearing the noise one day). Everything I read about the local franchised leak detection company wasnt very positive so I held off hiring one. I dont remember everything I did but I spent a fair amount of time looking for it. Ours was on the hot water side, so I basically shutoff the water heater and only turned it on when someone was showering or doing dishes. That allowed me time to find it. It was not easy to find as every time I thought I knew where it was, it wasnt. I even had a friend with an expensive flir camera that I borrowed that didnt help. Although I did find a place in the attic where a bay was missing insulation. Eventually I did figure out that it was in the wall behind the vanity and repaired it without destroying anything major.

So since the weekend house is about 2hrs away and belongs to my wifes family I am not in the best position to solve the problem. The following Tuesday they called a local small plumbing company that came out and confirmed that there was a leak. Didnt charge them and basically said we use abc123 leak detection. My wife calls them and they said it would be at least a week before they could get there. There was a big reunion this past weekend and she wanted to try and get the problem solved as there would be at least 18 people staying the weekend. So she calls a few other plumbers to see if they have there own leak detection and everybody says they use abc123 leak detection. So she schedules an appointment with abc123 for this past Friday and they make alternate arrangements for some of the guests to reduce water usage as they where worried the pipe might "blow". Even though I explained that it wouldnt be a problem like that.

So Friday comes and basically there is nobody at the house as they are out boating and having fun. I am at work and my wife ended up having to go help someone for the day that was admitted to the hospital. She has another cousin on the other side of the family that lives close by and could meet the leak detection tech. The cousin is a smart guy, mechanically minded and understands how things work. She forwards both of us a text from the company that the guy is on his way and would arrive by 10:00am. Also included was another text about the tech that was extremely long and read like a Tinder ad about all his hobbies and other things he does. It didnt mention anything about his abilities to find a leak and I honestly thought it was unprofessional to even include all this. First thing when he meets the cousin he wants to know who is paying today? My cousin tells him that he expected that my wife had already set that up, but the guy says no and he cant start until he knows how they are getting paid (company policy). Cousin asks how much it would be and he tells him $350. Cousin says no problem I have that on me and you can get started. I guess he hooked up a nitrogen tank to the cold water supply for the washing machine thats in the garage and uses the typical listening device. Guy works at it for a couple of hours and could not tell him exactly where it is. Thinks he hears something in one room and another spot, but says its loudest in front of the dishwasher on the floor. Lets cousin listen to it as well, but is inconclusive. Cousin offers to pull the dishwasher to get more access but he says not to bother. In the end he cant say for sure where its at and decides not to charge them. Later, after he leaves we find out that my wife had to prepay over the phone before they would even schedule the appointment. She is contacting the company this morning to get that mess straightened out.

So back to the top. Looking for feedback from anyone that has used a leak detection company. I found a couple of other companies in a bigger city close by that say they service our area. Was going to do some research on them and probably call and see if I can get a feeling for there abilities. I feel like its almost like the locksmiths now where they advertise but are just a dispatch service that sends a guy out in his own car to fix your lock.

If I cant find someone that I feel confident enough about finding the leak I guess it will fall on the Tres Amigos Leak Detection Company (me,myself & I) to figure it out.
 
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Hubmonkey

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Nov 19, 2017
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Location
OK
We had a slab leak a number of years ago in a house that was built in 1977. It was a copper line that had a small kink in it when they rolled it out building the house. It was against a piece of concrete is what they suspected since it was corrosion that caused the hole..

They were very accurate in finding the leak. They setup a small plastic barrier to contain the dust, has us remove everything hanging on all of the walls, we had about a 18'x18" hole cut in our slab and that revealed a cavity where the water had eroded the earth below the slab. They cut the bad piece of copper out and fixed it (The insurance did not pay for the plumbing part of it) and they back filled the cavity and compacted it by hand, redid the rebar and completed the slab repair with concrete. I had already used a shop vac to get all the water out of the floor vents (Insurance paid me for that). They also did a follow up duct cleaning to make sure there was no mold growing in the ducts.

So my experience with that disaster was pretty good.

Hub
 

jack stand

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Feb 29, 2012
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Location
Lakes Region Maine
I'm surprised everyday by technology, but have a very hard time thinking that at best they'll try for a general area. Maybe 5' without some type of probe through the slab in various locations to possibly measure the moisture content of the soil. 🤔
 
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gregs

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Check all the supply lines for ice makers, then check the hoses for the washer before you go high tech.
Agreed. I did the best I could do for the time I had over the 4th of July with everything else going on. Thinking of going back this weekend by myself "Tres Amigos" to look it over better without interruption before we move forward. I had to "slow the role" this morning as they are already asking for quotes to repipe the house!
 
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gregs

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We had a slab leak a number of years ago in a house that was built in 1977. It was a copper line that had a small kink in it when they rolled it out building the house. It was against a piece of concrete is what they suspected since it was corrosion that caused the hole..

They were very accurate in finding the leak. They setup a small plastic barrier to contain the dust, has us remove everything hanging on all of the walls, we had about a 18'x18" hole cut in our slab and that revealed a cavity where the water had eroded the earth below the slab. They cut the bad piece of copper out and fixed it (The insurance did not pay for the plumbing part of it) and they back filled the cavity and compacted it by hand, redid the rebar and completed the slab repair with concrete.
This would be my best hope. But I dont like "hope" as a plan.
 

mcbane

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Jul 23, 2017
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794
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California
I'm surprised everyday by technology, but have a very hard time thinking that at best they'll try for a general area. Maybe 5' without some type of probe through the slab in various locations to possibly measure the moisture content of the soil. 🤔
I have no idea what the current tech is but even the 1990s acoustic leak detection gear was pretty accurate. If I recall correctly, with sensors at two or more locations on the plumbing listening to the hissing leak sound, the phase angle at each sensor was compared to figure the distance from each sensor to the leak.
 

bigman68

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Mar 7, 2012
Messages
173
Location
N.E. Indiana
My expierience is great, I had an underslab leak 2 summers ago, the tech that came out actually marked all my underground water lines to eliminate any line that might be leaking. He was within 1 inch of the leak when they torn the slab up. Best part is I took pictures of the marked waterlines for any future need.
 
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gregs

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My expierience is great, I had an underslab leak 2 summers ago, the tech that came out actually marked all my underground water lines to eliminate any line that might be leaking. He was within 1 inch of the leak when they torn the slab up. Best part is I took pictures of the marked waterlines for any future need.

Do you remember what type of equipment he used? This fellow only used the listening device. Didn’t locate any pipes.
 
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jack stand

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I have no idea what the current tech is but even the 1990s acoustic leak detection gear was pretty accurate. If I recall correctly, with sensors at two or more locations on the plumbing listening to the hissing leak sound, the phase angle at each sensor was compared to figure the distance from each sensor to the leak.
I figured I be surprised...again. 👍
 
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gregs

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My wife contacted abc123 and played phone tag with the office person but eventually confirmed that she wasn't charged. Supposedly the the office person also talked to the senior tech about the situation. He said its not uncommon to not be able to find such a small leak and we could leave it alone and monitor it until it got worse. Really? You must be kidding.

She called the first local plumber back and told them what happened and if they had any other options. Someone called her back to say that they had also called abc123 and got the same story almost in disbelief. They have another company that they have used and gave my wife there contact info. So I will research that company as I figure out what to do next.
 

bigman68

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N.E. Indiana
Do you remember what type of equipment he used? This fellow only used the listening device. Didn’t locate any pipes.
I do not know what type of equipment was used the company was American Leak Detetion. I believe they are a francise so your local people many be different:

 

rooster59

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Land of the Pines
Did you close the shutoffs for every fixture you could find, especially toilets? Sometimes toilets and their shutoffs will both leak. anything with a saddle valve like a water filter or humidifier. Do everything all at once. An automotive stethoscope works pretty good for tracking stuff down. If you know where the water company line meets the slab you could check right there, notorious spot. Easier to check that in FL than ND.
 
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gregs

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I did not turn off every shutoff valve, I was on limited time and tools. I do have a good auto stethoscope that I bought when I had my home water leak. The wife has called a couple of other leak detection companies and there family is hot and heavy to get it fixed. I take a more methodical approach to doing things which takes more time since I am only using $3 worth of tools and my brain (value unknown) to figure things out, but usually very successful. Verses the guy that showed up without a brain and some expensive tools. And with the house being 2hrs away its not that easy to do something after work, so it limits me to the weekend. My current plan is to take tools this weekend and see what I can figure out and basically eliminate everything else except under the slab. That way I hope we are not wasting time with another company. But with all that said, I think they are teetering on the edge of recommendations from "professionals". I can see them paying to repipe the whole house only to find out it was a less than major problem. I'll see how it goes in the next couple of days. If they end up scheduling another company before the weekend, it may not be my problem to deal with.
 
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gregs

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Back To The Top!

So they had another leak detection company come in and locate the area where the leak is. Its in an area under an interior wall thats between the kitchen and living room. The tech said that they would term the leak at the "manifold". Basically the main water line comes in and is tee'd off at this location for different areas of the house and typical to the age and house design.

So he taped off the area which is about 1'x2' against the wall. The flooring in the living room is a vinyl tile 1'x1' and we have spares. The other side is kitchen cabinets and he had no access to the floor on that side so he couldn't really say if it was closer to one side or the other. But basically you are working down in a hole.

Now I am trying to figure out the best approach to make access. Easiest to remove the vinyl tile and bust a hole in the slab and clean it out, or try to remove the kitchen cabinet on the other side and bust a hole in the slab there. Obviously if I do it under the cabinet it would not show after the floor is fixed and the cabinet put back in. New tiles on the other side would show a different color with age and dirt, but there is usually a chair in that area so you really wouldn't notice.

The last thing is what would be a good way to break thru 4" of concrete? Would a small demo hammer / drill do it? Or should I rent something bigger? Once I have it exposed depending on what I find I may repair it or call the plumber to repair.
 

Hubmonkey

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When they did our slab lean they used a jack hammer.. You can rent those.. if you go that route remove every thing off the walls like pictures shelves etc..
 
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gregs

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Just to update. Decided to take the kitchen cabinets out and work on that side of the wall and glad I did. The repairs to the finished surfaces would have been as much work as the plumbing repair.

First thing was to open the wall in the area where I found 2 sets of pipes, along with the "manifold" above the floor in the wall. Used my best judgement and started making a hole in the floor with my rotary hammer drill, basically swiss cheesing the area. Finished up with the chisel to clean it up a little. The hole ended up being about 6"-8" wide and 12+" long. It was big enough to start to dig out the sand under the slab and locate the pipes. So after removing about 3 5gal buckets and reaching all around the marked area under the slab no leak was found. Using a long screwdriver against my ear I was confident it was in the cold water line going to the kitchen sink area. Went outside and looked under the kitchen window and found a hose bib. Figuring that was tied to the same line, I broke out the concrete block under it and found the other end of the lines.

At that point it was determined that there was no point in trying to locate the leak. Since part of the line is encased in the footer and there was no way to locate it any better, we decided to abandon that line and repipe it in the wall. Problem solved.

Next my wife contacted the leak detection company about a refund. They where a little skeptical and not interested in that idea. But after a detailed email from me with pictures they did refund her.

So thats my experience with 2 different leak detection companies.
 
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